Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
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Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Let's discuss this new duo on the back of Lamarcus Joyner and Rex Ryan's comments about this offense.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
All of this because of an odd preseason game when AZ said they aren't running anything until week 1. I think they will be fine. Murray may be the best running qb we have seen, and he is probably the best passer for a qb of his running caliber. Of course old school guy says They better be able to run!
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
I don't think they realize that NFL teams were using air raid offense last year. Browns, Chiefs, and Bucs all used it. The NFL has transitioned into more of this anyway, so I think the Cardinals will be fine.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
lol, rex ryan, next up: hue jackson talks about how to win games.Cult of Dionysus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:44 am Link to article: https://eu.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 050594001/
I expect the offense to mostly work. I expect Kyler to be mostly good. My biggest concern is that the defense looks so bad that they may only have the ball for 26 minutes/game (again).....which would be bad
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
The most interesting thing I learned from the Cards in game 2 was that Washington State and Texas Tech were the 2 least blitzed teams in college. The commentator said that colleges dont have enough quality corners to blitz the air raid, but the NFL does. Which might explain why the Cards looked overwhelmed in game 2.
Obviously they weren't game planning, but something to monitor. I think there might be a larger learning curve doe both Kyler and Kliff than people thought.
Obviously they weren't game planning, but something to monitor. I think there might be a larger learning curve doe both Kyler and Kliff than people thought.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Elements of it, not using it full on.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:17 am I don't think they realize that NFL teams were using air raid offense last year. Browns, Chiefs, and Bucs all used it. The NFL has transitioned into more of this anyway, so I think the Cardinals will be fine.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Lamar and Vick are better in this regard for sure, IMO. Arizona can say what they want, but no doubt their plan was not to have their QB running for his life in the preseason. Defences aren't showing much until week 1 either. Not showing plays and not showing protections are different things. I think that this is a good conversation to have since nobody has tried this offense to the level it will be run in AZ. Personally I think they will struggle, but it definitely is a good topic to discuss, as the NFL has not seen someone come in and try to run this system almost full on, yet.TheNuts wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:04 am All of this because of an odd preseason game when AZ said they aren't running anything until week 1. I think they will be fine. Murray may be the best running qb we have seen, and he is probably the best passer for a qb of his running caliber. Of course old school guy says They better be able to run!
Last edited by FantasyFreak on Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
I think its fairly simply what the problem is in AZ. They can't freaking block anybody! Until they get some Oline help they will be a dumpster fire.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
haha, what's joyner gonna do to get rid of that pretty boy offense? stand at the back scratching his head while receivers run by him to catch the ball for a touchdown? he's the last person in the world that should be talking smack. he almost singlehandedly lost the nfc championship for the rams when he somehow allowed ginn to catch that criminally underthrown, waiting to be intercepted pass by brees. put your arms up you stiff.
Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
If teams are/were using elements of the Air Raid offence previously, that would suggest then they also have some idea how to stop it also no?
Regardless, I think the key element for Arizona will be how long it takes and how successful they are at getting their O-line to work as a unit.
Also I am in an interesting situation in that I would like to see someone like Kyler Murray succeed while hoping the Cardinals & Kliff Kingsbury fail.
Regardless, I think the key element for Arizona will be how long it takes and how successful they are at getting their O-line to work as a unit.
Also I am in an interesting situation in that I would like to see someone like Kyler Murray succeed while hoping the Cardinals & Kliff Kingsbury fail.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Sure, but it's not like it was small stuff. These teams incorporated significant usage of air raid offense. The result? Tampa Bay put up numbers, KC had a 5000 yard QB, and Cleveland had a rookie put up big numbers. It's a big reason why Todd Monken ended up in Cleveland with Kitchens. Monken is a long-time air raid disciple.FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:57 amElements of it, not using it full on.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:17 am I don't think they realize that NFL teams were using air raid offense last year. Browns, Chiefs, and Bucs all used it. The NFL has transitioned into more of this anyway, so I think the Cardinals will be fine.
There's going to be an adjustment for AZ, but the league is in the right spot for this offense to succeed. Rex Ryan criticizing it doesn't mean a ton to me, given that he historically hired vanilla offensive coordinators throughout his coaching tenure. Might as well have John Fox and Jeff Fisher chime in too.
Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Dumpster fire? That's overkill. Maybe it doesn't work as well as Kliff hopes, but I highly doubt the offense will be a dumpster fire with all the talent they have
12 team ppr 4 point pass td
Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots
14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%
Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
Djohns, Singletary, Fournette, Harris, Armstead, Ogunbawale, Samuels
Julio, Arob, Woods, Sims Jr, Claypool, Duvernay, Isabella, Conley, Tyrell
Waller, Hurst, Jarwin, Boyle
12 team ppr 4 point pass td, superflex, 1.5 TE ppr
Goff, Minshew, Hill, Alllen, Walker
Chubb, Taylor, Henry, Singletary, David Johnson, Damien Harris, Hyde, Boone, Blasingame
Tyreek, Boyd, Diontae, Marvin Jones, Pittman, Nkeal, Duvernay, Sims Jr, Stills
Waller, Higbee, Arnold, Olsen, Parkinson, Sample
20 team ppr 6 point pass td, .05 point per return yard
Matt Ryan
Fournette, Singletary, Harris, Cohen, Duke Johnson, Trey Edmunds
Davante Adams, Tyreek, Sutton, Boyd, Dorsett, Tyrell
Kittle, Jarwin, Oliver
Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots
14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%
Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
Djohns, Singletary, Fournette, Harris, Armstead, Ogunbawale, Samuels
Julio, Arob, Woods, Sims Jr, Claypool, Duvernay, Isabella, Conley, Tyrell
Waller, Hurst, Jarwin, Boyle
12 team ppr 4 point pass td, superflex, 1.5 TE ppr
Goff, Minshew, Hill, Alllen, Walker
Chubb, Taylor, Henry, Singletary, David Johnson, Damien Harris, Hyde, Boone, Blasingame
Tyreek, Boyd, Diontae, Marvin Jones, Pittman, Nkeal, Duvernay, Sims Jr, Stills
Waller, Higbee, Arnold, Olsen, Parkinson, Sample
20 team ppr 6 point pass td, .05 point per return yard
Matt Ryan
Fournette, Singletary, Harris, Cohen, Duke Johnson, Trey Edmunds
Davante Adams, Tyreek, Sutton, Boyd, Dorsett, Tyrell
Kittle, Jarwin, Oliver
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
The offensive line was bad last season and the only changes were guys coming back from injury. The Raiders pass rush was the worst in the NFL by a wide margin last year. The Raider defense absolutely ate the Arizona offensive line alive in the first half of that game and it wasn’t until the subs came on that Arizona made a game of it. That’s a huge red flag and I’m not sure you’re going to be able to get a read on the ability of the Air Raid or Kyler Murray to succeed until that gets fixed.
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Re: Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?
Pretty much nailed my thoughts on this.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:26 amSure, but it's not like it was small stuff. These teams incorporated significant usage of air raid offense. The result? Tampa Bay put up numbers, KC had a 5000 yard QB, and Cleveland had a rookie put up big numbers. It's a big reason why Todd Monken ended up in Cleveland with Kitchens. Monken is a long-time air raid disciple.FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:57 amElements of it, not using it full on.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:17 am I don't think they realize that NFL teams were using air raid offense last year. Browns, Chiefs, and Bucs all used it. The NFL has transitioned into more of this anyway, so I think the Cardinals will be fine.
There's going to be an adjustment for AZ, but the league is in the right spot for this offense to succeed. Rex Ryan criticizing it doesn't mean a ton to me, given that he historically hired vanilla offensive coordinators throughout his coaching tenure. Might as well have John Fox and Jeff Fisher chime in too.
The worry I have...is that both the Browns and the Chiefs had pretty good offensive lines as well. I can’t speak to how good Tampa Bay’s line was. If the Cardinals offense is a bust, I don’t think it will be due to system. It will be due to lacking the OL to run ANY system with great results.
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