It is Mark Ingram Time - Back Home to NO

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Not to speak for Jason, but running QBs usually run more than they dump-off to RBs

Is there any data to this or is just one of those many things in FF that sounds logical but often doesn't play out that way in practice?

• CMC caught 107 and 80 passes the last two years with a running QB.
• Marshawn had 40 receptions (and another 20 for Turbin) in Russell Wilson's biggest rushing year.
• Shady McCoy had 78 receptions in Mike Vick's biggest rushing year in Philly, and Warrick Dunn/Justin Griffith combined for 53 in Vick's biggest rushing year in Atlanta which was back when RB targets as a whole were much lower than now.
• In Donovan Mcnabb's first year as a starter when he relied a lot more on his legs (700 yards rushing) he completed 118 passes to his RBs.
• Even Tim Tebow completed 56 passes to RBs (of only 126 completions, good for 44% of his total completions) in his year as a starter in Denver.

I don't think CMC and Shady really apply here. Ingram is nothing like them in the receiving game, which is why I clarified that he's not dynamic in the passing game.

You should look up the word "usually"

[Vcize]

Not to speak for Jason, but running QBs usually run more than they dump-off to RBs

Is there any data to this or is just one of those many things in FF that sounds logical but often doesn't play out that way in practice?

• CMC caught 107 and 80 passes the last two years with a running QB.
• Marshawn had 40 receptions (and another 20 for Turbin) in Russell Wilson's biggest rushing year.
• Shady McCoy had 78 receptions in Mike Vick's biggest rushing year in Philly, and Warrick Dunn/Justin Griffith combined for 53 in Vick's biggest rushing year in Atlanta which was back when RB targets as a whole were much lower than now.
• In Donovan Mcnabb's first year as a starter when he relied a lot more on his legs (700 yards rushing) he completed 118 passes to his RBs.
• Even Tim Tebow completed 56 passes to RBs (of only 126 completions, good for 44% of his total completions) in his year as a starter in Denver.

I don't think CMC and Shady really apply here. Ingram is nothing like them in the receiving game, which is why I clarified that he's not dynamic in the passing game.

You should look up the word "usually"

Why don't you give me the definition of "usually" by providing any kind of data here, because a cursory glance at the numbers doesn't seem to back it up. I picked out the first 5 running QBs I could think of above and they all threw to their RBs plenty, often above the league average.

As a whole RBs got 21% of NFL targets last year.

Counting only QBs that rushed for 500+ yards last year, RBs got....21% of their targets last year.

It may come to pass in the end that Jackson doesn't pass to his RBs as much as other QBs, but I'm not really seeing anything that dictates running QBs target RBs less often in the passing game than other QBs.

FWIW Jackson himself targeted RBs on 17% of his passes last year which is certainly below the league average but not some kind of outlier or anything. It was 22nd in the league (surprisingly more often than guys like Big Ben and Matt Ryan targeted RBs). I think we can also say it wouldn't be surprising to see that number rise a fair bit next year given that Baltimore's lead back for all of Jackson's starts was Gus Edwards, who averaged 3 catches PER SEASON in college.

Guys like Tebow and Vick are probably the most similar to Jackson stylistically (in that they probably would have never made an NFL roster if it weren't for their legs) and they both targeted the RBs a ton.

[Pullo Vision]

29 years old

But as a contender, paying a late 2nd to get some depth at a scary injury prone position would definitely be worth. And since 29 years old, a non contender may be willing to part with Ingram for even less to just move him before the wheels fall off

I think he has a year or maybe 2 of higher RB2 numbers (would bet top 18 for 2019)

That'd be awesome to get him for a 2nd. He was sold for a 1st in one of my leagues and his mizelle ADP is after only 4 rookies- Jacobs, Montgomery, Sanders, Harry. Seems mid first is a truer gauge of his value, even if we're talking about 1.7 in this draft class.

I think ppl aren't properly accounting for Greg Roman's history of very productive run games. Even if Ingram isn't a bellcow and shares a healthy number of touches with other backs, the volume and per-touch efficiency of the rushing attack would easily compensate.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Why don't you give me the definition of "usually" by providing any kind of data here, because a cursory glance at the numbers doesn't seem to back it up. I picked out the first 5 running QBs I could think of above and they all threw to their RBs plenty, often above the league average.

As a whole RBs got 21% of NFL targets last year.

Counting only QBs that rushed for 500+ yards last year, RBs got....21% of their targets last year.

It may come to pass in the end that Jackson doesn't pass to his RBs as much as other QBs, but I'm not really seeing anything that dictates running QBs target RBs less often in the passing game than other QBs.

FWIW Jackson himself targeted RBs on 17% of his passes last year which is certainly below the league average but not some kind of outlier or anything. It was 22nd in the league (surprisingly more often than guys like Big Ben and Matt Ryan targeted RBs). I think we can also say it wouldn't be surprising to see that number rise a fair bit next year given that Baltimore's lead back for all of Jackson's starts was Gus Edwards, who averaged 3 catches PER SEASON in college.

Guys like Tebow and Vick are probably the most similar to Jackson stylistically (in that they probably would have never made an NFL roster if it weren't for their legs) and they both targeted the RBs a ton.

I didn't go look for data because it's usually pretty easy to tell when someone is trying to make an honest argument, and when someone is trying to look like the smartest guy on a message board.

If your 1st post it to go point at CMC, who is nothing like Ingram, instead of just about every other RB Cam has played with in his career (who happen to look a lot more like Ingram), and then you double down by pointing out Jackson played with Gus Edwards last year, ignoring the converted WR that was also getting snaps with Jackson, it doesn't seem like you're looking for a real discussion.

No offense whatsoever meant by the post. From my viewpoint, Ingram isn't an exceptional receiving back (e.g. a back who does more than catch dump offs), and non exceptional receiving backs usually don't get heavy targets with running QBs. As you rightly pointed out there are exceptions, I'm just comfortable assuming Ingram won't be one of them. If a RB in Baltimore gets targeted heavily, I think it'll be Justice Hill.

Also, Jackson and Tebow are not close comps IMO. Jackson is a better passer, and much more of a threat as a runner. Vicks a good comp, and maybe RG3 (although Jackson was much more raw as a rookie than RG3). If you asked me to guess one running QB who threw a lot to their RBs, I'd guess Tebow since he just didn't have the ability to push the ball downfield.

[Ice]

Ingrim didn’t catch a ton of passes because of the phenom Kamara.

It doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t catch a lot of passes for the Ravens.

So called running QB’s throw it a ton to RB’s because of how they are schemed.

Sound good that those Qb’s usually don’t but it’s not based in any statistical evidence I can find.

One could argue that the RB is a better outlet for running QB’s when the 2nd level crashes the QB.

Regardless, Ingrim can run, catch, and block. Looking for a top 10-12 year out of him and would not be shocked if he finished top 3-5 in rushing.

That said the Ravens drafted a very good sleeper that could be their Kamara if he can pass protect

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I haven't seen Ingram going for a 2nd in any leagues, but I agree he's a good buy at that price. His floor should be really high.
I've seen Lat Murray going for a 2nd or early 3rd in a my leagues though. I think he's a better buy if you're a contender looking for depth.

[Londondynasty]

Late first?

He is someone who never seems to get the love he deserves. For the last 4 years or so he has been a zero RB team's dream.

Reckon he has 2 years left?

[FantasyFreak]

2nd IMO.

[StripesOfKC]

As a serious contender I'd be willing to pay a late 1st

As a rebuilder I'd probably be willing to sell for an early 2nd in this class

[BucFanJKE]

He is probably worth an early to mid 2nd. They can cut him and save 5 mil next offseason. Assuming he plays good this year he can potentially find a 1 year deal next year if they did cut him.

He is one of those guys that if you have him, you probably won't get what he is worth based on his production for your team.

[Orenthal Shames]

He is one of those guys that if you have him, you probably won't get what he is worth based on his production for your team.

This. He shouldn't have been on a rebuild roster.

[mild]

I sold him for a 2021 2nd, I'm hopeful it's an early one.

[qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj]

As a contender with RB depth I tried to sell him for early 2nds all offseason where I had him. No luck in any of my leagues.
I think as others have noted he's now just one of those guys that are worth more on my roster than selling for the scraps people are willing to give up for him. It's been that way for a few seasons now honestly.

[grandmabetty]

I drafted him in the start up in my signature 5 years ago and he was under appreciated then. When healthy hes been a top 10 RB I believe every season. He is the epitome of a player that doesn't get the buzz or respect that matches his production. He'll retire on my team.

After helping me to get 2 championships in 5 years he deserves that rather than have me sell him for scraps.

I think its realistic to expect RB2 production this year with some weeks where he posts RB1 numbers. Next year i believe he will be cut so his fantasy career will be up in the air at that point

[dynastyninja]

I'd have a really hard time paying a late first for Ingram. I can definitely see him producing at a reasonably high level, but I think the chances of him not performing enough to be worth that first are pretty high.