How concerned are we about Sony?

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hoos89
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby hoos89 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:23 pm

Eh...Cooper is a hot commodity this offseason. Many view him as a WR1 with the Cowboys whose value will be much higher after this season. It's not that crazy of a deal for someone who is also high on Michel (I've seen him ranked as high as low 30s).
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Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, B. Hill
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Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby briank » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 am

ninotoreS wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:51 pm
briank wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:11 pm
No, I think the deal was OK. I certainly don't think he, "made out like a bandit." I just think he could have gotten better value. I don't like selling low and buying high, which is how I view that trade. I didn't post my trade to brag. I posted it to show that better value can be had. No need to be a douche.
Lockett is the newly minted #1 for one of the league's premier QBs, and is coming off the most efficient season by a WR in NFL history. Coutee is 22, already owns a couple of NFL records, and is poised to be fantasy valuable with one of the other very best QBs in the league for the next decade. They're both red-hot offseason darlings with regard to their perceived breakout potential this year (check twitter if you doubt it).

Sony Michel is already 24 with a chronic knee problem, seems to be only a 2-down back, and is in an offense notorious for RB committee hell. In stark contrast to Lockett/Coutee, Michel's stock has been falling all offseason. He's shaping up to be Steven Ridley v2. How likely do you think it is he's still fantasy valuable in 3-4 years? Coutee and Lockett probably will be.


Regardless, getting Hopkins for Michel and Cooper is outrageous. The owner who did that trade with you is incompetent. Hopkins is a target monster superstar in his prime, a super elite, fantasy championship winning top 3 WR1. Amari Cooper is a WR2, Michel is an RB2 draped in red flags. It's a ridiculous trade, and no sort of rational standard to present to others.
I agree with most of what you said. Lockett might be his team's #1, but he's not the kind of player that is likely to get a massive target load. He's on a team that doesn't want to pass the ball. I do think he could get more targets than last year, but I don't think he can be nearly as efficient, especially with the touchdowns. I think he's a high end WR2 at best. I also think there is a good chance DK or a future acquisition becomes the #1.

I like Coutee too, but I think he's the 3rd best receiver on his team. I think he's a WR3 unless someone gets hurt. Like Lockett, I think he's startable, but neither of these guys are special IMO.

Yes, Michel has had a chronic knee problem. He just had his knee scoped. It's a minor procedure and he should be ready to go. For me, his knee problem doesn't concern me that much short term. With RB, I don't look at any of them long term because most of them don't seem to last anyways. I also don't agree that Michel can only be a 2 down back. He showed in college that he can catch the ball. Most rookie RB don't catch many balls. I think there is room to grow in that regard. He's definitely risky, but the sky is the limit with his talent on that offense.

Again, I don't hate the trade. It's just not the kind of trade I like to make. I'd prefer to add something to Michel to upgrade. I think Michel is undervalued now. I don't like to sell low. The community is buzzing about Lockett and Coutee. I don't like to buy high.
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TE: Ertz, Cook, Gesicki, Shaheen
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby briank » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:59 am

Johnny B. Goode wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:01 pm
briank wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:11 pm

No need to be a douche.
Kettle meet pot
If calling someone out for a douchey comment makes you one too, I guess you've joining the club.
12 team PPR 1QB 2-3RB 3-4WR 1-2TE 1K 1DST start 10
QB: Wilson, Brady, Mayfield
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TE: Ertz, Olsen, Andrews, Walker, Cook, Herndon
K: Zuerlein
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QB: Mayfield, Winston, Newton, Keenum, Stidham
RB: Mixon, A. Jones, Miller, Jamaal Williams, Dixon, Edwards, Bernard, Gallman, Pollard
WR: Hopkins, Thomas, Jeffery, DJ Moore, Moncrief, Ginn, David Moore, Perriman
TE: Ertz, Cook, Gesicki, Shaheen
2020 Picks: 4, 5

24 team 2 copy PPR TE 1.5 PPFD 1-2QB 1-7RB 1-7WR 1-7TE start 10
QB: Mahomes, Watson, Tannehill, Fitzpatrick, Flacco
RB: Mixon, Carson, Murray, Jamaal Williams, Mattison, Hines, Barber, Bonnafon, Ty Johnson
WR: Evans, Woods, Cooks, Fuller, Miller, Diontae Johnson, Ross, DT, Reynolds, Ginn, Erickson, Byrd
TE: Andrews, Brate
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:16 pm

Any news coming out about Harris in camp?
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ArrylT » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:45 am

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2019/ ... ng-record/

Rich Eisen thinks Michel has a chance to break Dillons rushing record (with the Patriots).
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:12 am

briank wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 am
ninotoreS wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:51 pm
briank wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:11 pm
No, I think the deal was OK. I certainly don't think he, "made out like a bandit." I just think he could have gotten better value. I don't like selling low and buying high, which is how I view that trade. I didn't post my trade to brag. I posted it to show that better value can be had. No need to be a douche.
Lockett is the newly minted #1 for one of the league's premier QBs, and is coming off the most efficient season by a WR in NFL history. Coutee is 22, already owns a couple of NFL records, and is poised to be fantasy valuable with one of the other very best QBs in the league for the next decade. They're both red-hot offseason darlings with regard to their perceived breakout potential this year (check twitter if you doubt it).

Sony Michel is already 24 with a chronic knee problem, seems to be only a 2-down back, and is in an offense notorious for RB committee hell. In stark contrast to Lockett/Coutee, Michel's stock has been falling all offseason. He's shaping up to be Steven Ridley v2. How likely do you think it is he's still fantasy valuable in 3-4 years? Coutee and Lockett probably will be.


Regardless, getting Hopkins for Michel and Cooper is outrageous. The owner who did that trade with you is incompetent. Hopkins is a target monster superstar in his prime, a super elite, fantasy championship winning top 3 WR1. Amari Cooper is a WR2, Michel is an RB2 draped in red flags. It's a ridiculous trade, and no sort of rational standard to present to others.
I agree with most of what you said. Lockett might be his team's #1, but he's not the kind of player that is likely to get a massive target load. He's on a team that doesn't want to pass the ball. I do think he could get more targets than last year, but I don't think he can be nearly as efficient, especially with the touchdowns. I think he's a high end WR2 at best. I also think there is a good chance DK or a future acquisition becomes the #1.

I like Coutee too, but I think he's the 3rd best receiver on his team. I think he's a WR3 unless someone gets hurt. Like Lockett, I think he's startable, but neither of these guys are special IMO.

Yes, Michel has had a chronic knee problem. He just had his knee scoped. It's a minor procedure and he should be ready to go. For me, his knee problem doesn't concern me that much short term. With RB, I don't look at any of them long term because most of them don't seem to last anyways. I also don't agree that Michel can only be a 2 down back. He showed in college that he can catch the ball. Most rookie RB don't catch many balls. I think there is room to grow in that regard. He's definitely risky, but the sky is the limit with his talent on that offense.

Again, I don't hate the trade. It's just not the kind of trade I like to make. I'd prefer to add something to Michel to upgrade. I think Michel is undervalued now. I don't like to sell low. The community is buzzing about Lockett and Coutee. I don't like to buy high.
We mainly just disagree on Lockett. I think he has a chance to be one of the best WRs in the league. But then, I reject the widespread WR size bias that is rampant in Dynasty football :P

I think Coutee is the 3rd most valuable WR for the Texans, but I'll bet he is the 2nd most valuable WR in weekly start fantasy leagues. Even if he's 3rd, it's not like the Texans have a RB or TE taking significant targets away, so 3 fantasy relevant WRs is plenty viable.

Anyway, I made the trade pre-draft, when neither was buzzing much. I made plenty of other attempts to move Sony in a package-up, but interest is not high in a guy in the LeGarrette Blount Role in NE. Truthfully I prefer Lockett alone to Sony, so I was thrilled to get Coutee on top.
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ninotoreS » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:22 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:23 pm
Many view him as a WR1 with the Cowboys whose value will be much higher after this season.
Many think our planet is flat.

Amari had five turds around his couple of fluke point explosions after he joined Dallas, and that's going to remain a theme because Prescott and that O in general just aren't going to feed him anything like as reliably as a still ascending D. Watson is feeding Nuk in his prime years.

Aside from the point that Hopkins is simply and obviously a much more dominant talent than Cooper, and that Michel is draped in red flags.
It's not that crazy of a deal for someone who is also high on Michel (I've seen him ranked as high as low 30s).
It's a terrible deal in objective terms, at this point in time. Any other assessment is make-believe.
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ninotoreS » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 pm

briank wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 am
Lockett might be his team's #1, but he's not the kind of player that is likely to get a massive target load.
Not true. He was the engine of KSU's passing offense for two years. 89th percentile Dominator Rating.

I feel like I've said this a thousand times, here, everywhere: Tyler Lockett is an every-level receiver with a complete route-tree.

Why, according to coaches and OTA/minicamp witnessing reporters, is he now the main guy in the slot in 3-wide, effectively inheriting Baldwin's role, which was more possession-oriented than Lockett's prior role? Because Lockett's a complete receiver; he can do that. Why is Schotty talking about moving him around the formation, playing *all* positions? Because he's a complete receiver; he can do that.
He's on a team that doesn't want to pass the ball.
True. But the nice thing about dynasty is that things can change, so it's wise to temper your investments in preference of talent before situation, particularly with WRs.

Lockett is still young. He's tied long term to one of football's best QBs. Both have longer leashes than Schottenheimer.
I think he's a high end WR2 at best.
Near-term, I agree.
I also think there is a good chance DK or a future acquisition becomes the #1.
After watching Metcalf's attempts to run curl routes, he won't be doing it.
I like Coutee too, but I think he's the 3rd best receiver on his team. I think he's a WR3 unless someone gets hurt.

He out-targeted / touched Fuller in every game they played together.

But regardless, who's actually betting Fuller will play 16 games?
neither of these guys are special IMO.
I dunno about Coutee yet -- he's got 'system-fit' indicators -- but Lockett just posted the most efficient season by any WR in history, according to a long list of metrics and analytics, and by an incredible margin. If that doesn't qualify as 'special', then the word has no meaning.
Last edited by ninotoreS on Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby IZigUZag » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:46 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 pm
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:12 am
Lockett might be his team's #1, but he's not the kind of player that is likely to get a massive target load.
Not true. He was the engine of KSU's passing offense for two years. 89th percentile Dominator Rating.

I feel like I've said this a thousand times, here, everywhere: Tyler Lockett is an every-level receiver with a complete route-tree.

Why, according to coaches and OTA/minicamp witnessing reporters, is he now the main guy in the slot in 3-wide, effectively inheriting Baldwin's role, which was more possession-oriented than Lockett's prior role? Because Lockett's a complete receiver; he can do that. Why is Schotty talking about moving him around the formation, playing *all* positions? Because he's a complete receiver; he can do that.
He's on a team that doesn't want to pass the ball.
True. But the nice thing about dynasty is that things can change, so it's wise to temper your investments in preference of talent before situation, particularly with WRs.

Lockett is still young. He's tied long term to one of football's best QBs. Both have longer leashes than Schottenheimer.
I think he's a high end WR2 at best.
Near-term, I agree.
I also think there is a good chance DK or a future acquisition becomes the #1.
After watching Metcalf's attempts to run curl routes, he won't be doing it.
I like Coutee too, but I think he's the 3rd best receiver on his team. I think he's a WR3 unless someone gets hurt.

He out-targeted / touched Fuller in every game they played together.

But regardless, who's actually betting Fuller will play 16 games?
neither of these guys are special IMO.
I dunno about Coutee yet -- he's got 'system-fit' indicators -- but Lockett just posted the most efficient season by any WR in history, according to a long list of metrics and analytics, and by an incredible margin. If that doesn't qualify as 'special', then the word has no meaning.
Pretty much agree with everything you said here about Lockett. People are severely underestimating his talent level. My only concern with Lockett is his weight; especially since he's missed considerable time with injury in the past. Hopefully he's found a style of play that will keep him healthy.

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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:04 am

ninotoreS wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 pm
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:12 am
Lockett might be his team's #1, but he's not the kind of player that is likely to get a massive target load.
Not true. He was the engine of KSU's passing offense for two years. 89th percentile Dominator Rating.

I feel like I've said this a thousand times, here, everywhere: Tyler Lockett is an every-level receiver with a complete route-tree.

Why, according to coaches and OTA/minicamp witnessing reporters, is he now the main guy in the slot in 3-wide, effectively inheriting Baldwin's role, which was more possession-oriented than Lockett's prior role? Because Lockett's a complete receiver; he can do that. Why is Schotty talking about moving him around the formation, playing *all* positions? Because he's a complete receiver; he can do that.
I agree. Just for record keeping sake, it looks like you screwed up the quote because I didn't say that :lol:
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 am

Just saw a tweet that said:

There has only been three New England Patriots to see 200+ carries in a single season since 2005:

2012 Steven Ridley (16 games)
2016 LeGarrette Blount (16 games)
2018 Sony Michel (13 games)

Bill Belichick utilized Michel a lot more than people realize.

https://twitter.com/TheFFGator/status/1 ... 9997759488

I verified this stat at pro-football reference:

http://pfref.com/tiny/Vxqq6
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:09 pm

ArrylT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 am
Just saw a tweet that said:

There has only been three New England Patriots to see 200+ carries in a single season since 2005:

2012 Steven Ridley (16 games)
2016 LeGarrette Blount (16 games)
2018 Sony Michel (13 games)

Bill Belichick utilized Michel a lot more than people realize.

https://twitter.com/TheFFGator/status/1 ... 9997759488

I verified this stat at pro-football reference:

http://pfref.com/tiny/Vxqq6
Is it a positive that NE rarely gives a lot of carries to RBs, and when they do it's to a RB that receives next to nothing in the passing game?

I'm open to arguments on how Michel will be more than the 2 down back going forward (and now the 2 down back with expensive insurance behind him). Right now I'd rather have other RBs in Michel's range because outside of a couple of seasons, the 2 down back in NE hasn't been that great for fantasy.
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ninotoreS » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:36 pm

It's alarming to me that none of those other guys followed up on their one good season in NE.
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:04 am
I agree. Just for record keeping sake, it looks like you screwed up the quote because I didn't say that :lol:
Sorry. I'll fix it.

edit: Fixed. :oops:
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby Weknownothing86 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:41 pm

ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:09 pm
ArrylT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 am
Just saw a tweet that said:

There has only been three New England Patriots to see 200+ carries in a single season since 2005:

2012 Steven Ridley (16 games)
2016 LeGarrette Blount (16 games)
2018 Sony Michel (13 games)

Bill Belichick utilized Michel a lot more than people realize.

https://twitter.com/TheFFGator/status/1 ... 9997759488

I verified this stat at pro-football reference:

http://pfref.com/tiny/Vxqq6
Is it a positive that NE rarely gives a lot of carries to RBs, and when they do it's to a RB that receives next to nothing in the passing game?

I'm open to arguments on how Michel will be more than the 2 down back going forward (and now the 2 down back with expensive insurance behind him). Right now I'd rather have other RBs in Michel's range because outside of a couple of seasons, the 2 down back in NE hasn't been that great for fantasy.
I could see him being a 3 down back once White leaves until then he wont be. However once white leaves i think Michel is easily the most talented back on the roster, and will be used that way. The talent is there for sure. Michel made some great runs and id say was the best offensive player for them in the playoffs. If there wasnt these lingering injury issues i would never have traded him. Im not worried about NEs system. If Michel shows well he will be out there, and i think he will show well. He can be a 3 down back, i know 2004 was forever ago but NE did use a 3 down guy then so they have used it before.
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Re: How concerned are we about Sony?

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:09 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:41 pm
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:09 pm
ArrylT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 am
Just saw a tweet that said:

There has only been three New England Patriots to see 200+ carries in a single season since 2005:

2012 Steven Ridley (16 games)
2016 LeGarrette Blount (16 games)
2018 Sony Michel (13 games)

Bill Belichick utilized Michel a lot more than people realize.

https://twitter.com/TheFFGator/status/1 ... 9997759488

I verified this stat at pro-football reference:

http://pfref.com/tiny/Vxqq6
Is it a positive that NE rarely gives a lot of carries to RBs, and when they do it's to a RB that receives next to nothing in the passing game?

I'm open to arguments on how Michel will be more than the 2 down back going forward (and now the 2 down back with expensive insurance behind him). Right now I'd rather have other RBs in Michel's range because outside of a couple of seasons, the 2 down back in NE hasn't been that great for fantasy.
I could see him being a 3 down back once White leaves until then he wont be. However once white leaves i think Michel is easily the most talented back on the roster, and will be used that way. The talent is there for sure. Michel made some great runs and id say was the best offensive player for them in the playoffs. If there wasnt these lingering injury issues i would never have traded him. Im not worried about NEs system. If Michel shows well he will be out there, and i think he will show well. He can be a 3 down back, i know 2004 was forever ago but NE did use a 3 down guy then so they have used it before.
Better than Edelman? I'd disagree, but Michel was good in the playoffs.
I'm not convinced he's more talented than Harris, so I guess that's the gap between me and people who like Michel.
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