The Tyreek Hill Thread

[MEuRaH]

Thread unlocked.

If you think you have something relevant to say, add it here. Do not attack each other over opinions. Do not turn this into a philosophical discussion. The last few posts have been removed since the topic waned from what it was supposed to be about:

The topic is Tyreek Hill, his value, and what to do with him going forward.

[FantasyFreak]

Oh I know it's not up to me. I just know for a fact that he will play again. I wasn't even speaking of my opinion when I said that. He will not be banned from football. He's too good. Donte Stallworth killed someone while under the influence. He had 1 year off. This isn't nearly as bad.

OK, thanks for clarifying. Chances are he will play. Almost certainly, however in this day and age, I don't know when the commish and the league will make an example of someone. Ray Rice got blackballed. Now Rice also wasn't a top WR in his prime, but I just don't want to assume anything. I wonder what happens if he gets a year long suspension. Does anyone know if he still gets his UFA eligibility, or does he remain under contract with the Chiefs?

Ray Rice is brought up as comp from "blackballed". His talent did not match the amount of publicity/pressure from signing him. He was on the decline. Rice was not necessarily black balled. The reward just wasn't worth what Rice brought with him.

Good point. Does anyone know the situation if Hill is given a full years suspension? Is he a UDFA next year still, or under contract with the Chiefs?

[Space Cowboy]

OK, thanks for clarifying. Chances are he will play. Almost certainly, however in this day and age, I don't know when the commish and the league will make an example of someone. Ray Rice got blackballed. Now Rice also wasn't a top WR in his prime, but I just don't want to assume anything. I wonder what happens if he gets a year long suspension. Does anyone know if he still gets his UFA eligibility, or does he remain under contract with the Chiefs?

Ray Rice is brought up as comp from "blackballed". His talent did not match the amount of publicity/pressure from signing him. He was on the decline. Rice was not necessarily black balled. The reward just wasn't worth what Rice brought with him.

Good point. Does anyone know the situation if Hill is given a full years suspension? Is he a UDFA next year still, or under contract with the Chiefs?

Gordon toiled on the Browns payroll for years. Pretty sure it nullifies the season.

[ninotoreS]

Aren't the tea leaves indicating now that Hill might escape serious punishment? That line of his in the phone call recording is pretty much all that's hurting him at this point. Now that it's coming out that Espinal lied and basically weaponized their son to "shame" Hill, I don't know that the NFL has the criteria they really need to suspend Hill. Even if they do attempt a slap on the wrist suspension just for the look of the thing, I suspect Hill and the NFLPA would win an appeal.

Thus, objectively, I'm coming around to the feeling that Hill's dynasty value has only moderately diminished as a result of all this. People who bought low may be this off-season's biggest fantasy winners.

[FantasyFreak]

Aren't the tea leaves indicating now that Hill might escape serious punishment? That line of his in the phone call recording is pretty much all that's hurting him at this point. Now that it's coming out that Espinal lied and basically weaponized their son to "shame" Hill, I don't know that the NFL has the criteria they really need to suspend Hill. Even if they do attempt a slap on the wrist suspension just for the look of the thing, I suspect Hill and the NFLPA would win an appeal.

Thus, objectively, I'm coming around to the feeling that Hill's dynasty value has only moderately diminished as a result of all this. People who bought low may be this off-season's biggest fantasy winners.

His admission to corporal punishment, combined with his threats, and his prior history doesn't really have any bearing on what she did, IMO. I'd be surprised and disappointed if the league doesn't hand down a severe penalty. I think his dynasty value will always be lower now, regardless, as he is one more move away from being done for good, if he survives this, so he will never regain close to his top value.

[smallxl]

I’m thinking no more than 6 based on lack of any clear cut evidence. Guys value is on the rise fast.

I haven't seen it. Have you seen any recent deals?

The guy's value is not in the rise at all. I completely agree that his past is going to be a major factor here and he's not done screwing up. I'd sell now based on the news and get a nice return....if people think his value is rising

[usps33]

Tyreek’s value has steadily been on the rise in dynasty startups. Me personally, I would have given him away for a future 3rd round pick once the audio tape was released. Now, it would take a future 1st rounder to get him. I turned down AJ Green straight for Tyreek ja couple days ago. I’d be very surprised if he gets more than a 6 game suspension. Seen some reports that he is in the reunification process with his son.

[FantasyFreak]

Tyreek’s value has steadily been on the rise in dynasty startups. Me personally, I would have given him away for a future 3rd round pick once the audio tape was released. Now, it would take a future 1st rounder to get him. I turned down AJ Green straight for Tyreek ja couple days ago. I’d be very surprised if he gets more than a 6 game suspension. Seen some reports that he is in the reunification process with his son.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't more than that. Jimmy Smith got 4 games last year for threats. Hill has threats, child abuse and his college history on his resume for this suspension review. Reunification with his son has absolutely zero relevance to the NFL's investigation.

[ninotoreS]

Voted 1-4 game suspension, and I think it's plausible Hill wins an appeal on top of that.

It coming out that the police decided Espinal plain lied flips the table in favor of Hill. Ultimately, he just didn't actually do anything. All the NFL has for grounds to punish is one sentence in a phone call, which Hill can argue was an emotional slip.

Jimmy Smith got 4 games last year for threats.

Smith did more than Hill is presently on the hook for. Smith got a 4-gamer for witnessed and documented long-interval pattern of "threats and emotionally abusive behavior" toward his lady, while an employee of the NFL.

Is it possible Hill has done something similar to Espinal? Sure. But can the NFL find the same degree of evidence of it that they did with Smith? I'm certain the NFL had more than hearsay and one spoken line to go on, especially since Smith didn't appeal.

[TheNuts]

Voted 1-4 game suspension, and I think it's plausible Hill wins an appeal on top of that.

It coming out that the police decided Espinal plain lied flips the table in favor of Hill. Ultimately, he just didn't actually do anything. All the NFL has for grounds to punish is one sentence in a phone call, which Hill can argue was an emotional slip.

Jimmy Smith got 4 games last year for threats.

Smith did more than Hill is presently on the hook for. Smith got a 4-gamer for witnessed and documented long-interval pattern of "threats and emotionally abusive behavior" toward his lady, while an employee of the NFL.

Is it possible Hill has done something similar to Espinal? Sure. But can the NFL find the same degree of evidence of it that they did with Smith? I'm certain the NFL had more than hearsay and one spoken line to go on, especially since Smith didn't appeal.

I think the focus on the investigation is where the largest confusion lied. There are a lot of posters on here who flat out said Hill broke his kids arm. Neither the medical staff nor investigators believe the broken arm was anything more than an accident.

The investigation that ensued was because of the apparent welts and bruises on the child's body from corporal punishment. Hill has admitted his willingness to use corporal punishment many would consider actual abuse (I consider it abuse).

Hills past, plus what he said to Espinal, plus his child receiving excessive physical punishment, means he will receive a healthy dose of suspension.

[FantasyFreak]

Voted 1-4 game suspension, and I think it's plausible Hill wins an appeal on top of that.

It coming out that the police decided Espinal plain lied flips the table in favor of Hill. Ultimately, he just didn't actually do anything. All the NFL has for grounds to punish is one sentence in a phone call, which Hill can argue was an emotional slip.

Jimmy Smith got 4 games last year for threats.

Smith did more than Hill is presently on the hook for. Smith got a 4-gamer for witnessed and documented long-interval pattern of "threats and emotionally abusive behavior" toward his lady, while an employee of the NFL.

Is it possible Hill has done something similar to Espinal? Sure. But can the NFL find the same degree of evidence of it that they did with Smith? I'm certain the NFL had more than hearsay and one spoken line to go on, especially since Smith didn't appeal.

Hill did use a belt on the child. He's admitted to that. The phone call is riddled with things that can incriminate Hill in the NFL's view, espeicially taking in to consideration Hill's past. Hill's prior college incident can be used in this case. With the history Hill has, and the fact there is audio out there for the public, that threat is a big deal, in the eyes of the NFL (in my opinion.) S It's also worth noting Espinal lied admitted to lying about the child's arm because Hill had become too controlling and abusive again, in their relationship, so there is probably more the NFL will root out when it comes to abuse, whether verbal or physical.

From a recent PFT article:

As explained on Sunday, Hill can be disciplined under the Personal Conduct Policy even without proof that he injured his son. Hill can be disciplined for making threats against Espinal (he told her “you need to be terrified of me too, bitch” as the couple argued the question of whether the boy respects Hill or is terrified of him), and Hill can be disciplined for creating an environment for his child deemed sufficiently unsafe to justify his removal from the home, an extraordinary step for the government to take.

The league informed PFT on Friday that the news of no active criminal investigation has no impact on the league’s position regarding Hill, since the NFL has opted to wait for the Child Protective Services proceeding to end before interviewing Hill. Monday’s news won’t change the league’s posture, either.

If anything, the portion of the report indicating that Hill has admitted to spanking the child with his hands and with a belt will make more susceptible, not less susceptible, to a suspension.

[TheNuts]

It basically comes down to this. The NFL absolutely does not want another PR mess on their hands. Giving Hill too light of a suspension will cost them viewers, attendees, and money. The NFL was impervious to any kind of negative PR for a while, but those times are in the past (think Kaepernick and how many people have boycotted the NFL because of what he started). They need to give him a minimum of 6 games, and if I am Rodger Goodell, the man in charge of protecting the shield, I am going to give him at least 8 games. At the very least, 8 games with a possibility to appeal it back down to 6.

[FantasyFreak]

It basically comes down to this. The NFL absolutely does not want another PR mess on their hands. Giving Hill too light of a suspension will cost them viewers, attendees, and money. The NFL was impervious to any kind of negative PR for a while, but those times are in the past (think Kaepernick and how many people have boycotted the NFL because of what he started). They need to give him a minimum of 6 games, and if I am Rodger Goodell, the man in charge of protecting the shield, I am going to give him at least 8 games. At the very least, 8 games with a possibility to appeal it back down to 6.

Agreed. Per Sports Illustrated:

To that end, “second offense” is mentioned in the context of the policy itself, which suggests it only contemplates misconduct while a player is in the NFL and subject to the personal conduct policy. Of course, Goodell could still impose a one-year (or longer) suspension on account of the six-game figure being a floor that is subject to increases for aggravating factors (two of which are acts against children and similar misconduct before joining the NFL).

Goodell also doesn’t need to conclude that Hill injured his son in order to justify punishment. The aforementioned recording between Hill and Espinal included Hill telling her “you need to be terrified of me too, b----.” In light of Hill previously punching and strangling Espinal—while she was pregnant, no less—Hill has ominously shown that he is more than capable of carrying out such a threat. Goodell would thus be well within his authority to punish Hill for verbally threatening Espinal.

[ninotoreS]

The investigation that ensued was because of the apparent welts and bruises on the child's body from corporal punishment.

"Apparent"?

There need to be medical records of "welts and bruises" or else it's probably a nothingburger so far as the NFL is concerned.

So, is there?

Or was that just another of Espinal's lies? I don't know! Does anybody know?

Y'all, we need to be done speculating and presuming and assuming. Doing so has only burned us repeatedly over the course of this saga.

[FantasyFreak]

The investigation that ensued was because of the apparent welts and bruises on the child's body from corporal punishment.

"Apparent"?

There need to be medical records of "welts and bruises" or else it's probably a nothingburger so far as the NFL is concerned.

So, is there?

Or was that just another of Espinal's lies? I don't know! Does anybody know?

Y'all, we need to be done speculating and presuming and assuming. Doing so has only burned us repeatedly over the course of this saga.

I believe there are records. That's why the investigation took place. The child was taken for the broken arm, and that's when the welts and bruises were discovered, and the investigation launched. Can't remember the article, but it detailed that Hill is on record with CPA for using a belt and spanking. Not going to dig it up, there is so much out there with Hill right now, and I'm getting tired of this, but it's in print somewhere that they are on record using corporal punishment, and Hill using a belt.