Fantasy Dilemma - Player vs. Person

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I was having this conversation with a friend and am curious to hear everyone's thoughts. For those of you who refuse to own players with incidents like Tyreek Hill with choking his pregnant girlfriend and allegedly breaking his son's arm, how far does this carry to other players or even celebrities in general?

Examples:

1. If you refuse to own Hill, do you also refuse to own Joe Mixon? He may have been called the n-word and baited into it, but there's clear evidence of him punching that girl in the bar.
2. If you refuse to own Hill, do you also refuse to own players like Dede Westbrook? He was never convicted, but there are many stories of him punching the mother of his children and throwing her to the ground back in college.
3. Let's go further still. If you refuse to own Hill, do you still enjoy songs by R. Kelly or Michael Jackson or watch Johnny Depp movies? R. Kelly is on trial for child sex crimes, and while Michael Jackson is a gray area, the documentary shows some startling facts that imply guilt. Do you delete Ignition to Remix or Beat It altogether from your iTunes library because of what the person did? Amber Heard accused Johnny Depp of some pretty terrible domestic violence, so do you switch to another channel when Pirates of the Caribbean comes on TV?

A couple of things before you reply:

1. Please do NOT let this thread devolve into insults and get locked.
2. We are NOT discussing Hill's innocence vs. guilt on this most recent incident, or anyone else's. Let's not get into that.

[Pac_Eddy]

It's fantasy football. My owning of those players does not equal an endorsement of their activities. I'll own and start them.

[killer_of_giants]

Michael Jackson is a gray area, the documentary shows some startling facts that imply guilt.

yeah i've heard those stories...



i tend to be unable to separate player (or artist or whatever) from person, i wouldn't draft hill, and for example i've hardly listened to morbid angel since i've heard they're bleep nazi cocksuckers, but then again i probably have a lot of double standards and/or willful ignorance.

1) mixon: not much of an issue with it, he was pushed and slapped in the face by someone who felt he would/could not retaliate. well, he did: overreaction or not, next time you'll learn to keep your hands in your pockets.

2) didn't know anything about dede. however, i generally doubt of rumours, so if there's not much evidence or a conviction, i'll suspend my judgement (though i may not if i already dislike the player, see the "double standards" above).

3) had to google who r. kelly is, michael jackson has some cracking songs but i could live without him, and johnny depp always looked like a bit of a twat and i had an ex who liked him very much, so i have personal beef with him and i'm out.

i know you probably didn't mean for people to reply to your specific examples but i'm bored...

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

It's fantasy football. My owning of those players does not equal an endorsement of their activities. I'll own and start them.

I personally agree. I was more curious about the many people who have posted recently being adamant about not owning Hill in light of the recent allegations how they apply this principle applies to other players etc.

[murphysxm]

I am somewhere in the middle. I won't go as far as saying I won't draft a player with a background, but I devalue them to a point that they get drafted before I would consider pulling the trigger. For me Hill is worse than Mixon because it is another incident in a clear story about a man who is physical with people that can't protect themselves. Mixon made a horrible decision in an emotional moment. To my knowledge it was a 1 time thing. I was also unaware of Dede

[Bluesox22]

I think each case needs to be looked at individually. Off the field issues certainly affect value and risk from a fantasy perspective. I never had an issue really with Mixon, he's comes from a good family and outside of the "punch" didn't have any problems.

I think it should be noted that the NFL's rate of domestic abuse per person is significantly less than that of the general population.

[Cult of Dionysus]

I only roster top character guys like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Marvin Harrison. You know, the Michael Jordans and Tiger Woods, who sell us cereal and shoes and have won the trust of corporate America. Phil Mickelson, cuz he's just an ordinary Joe and family guy...

[hockeyBjj]

Since me owning a guy in fantasy football doesn't actually help a sh*t bag out in real life, like an NFL team rostering and paying said sh*tbag, I have no issues owning the likes of Hunt, Hill, Mixon, etc.

Their values do get decreased due to the likelihood to re-offend, and the ensuing suspensions or all out terminations increasing their risk notably.

I sold Robby Anderson because he seems like an accident waiting to happen with two cases of being arrested, mouthing off to cops, and getting only a slap on the wrist each time. T Hill I'm holding because his talent upside is still above where the risk of him never playing again is. My value to T Hill has dropped like he tore his acl and will be out the 2019 season (that's what I expect to happen or something near it with suspensions) and trade partners are behaving stricter than that.

[jenkins.math]

I don't use fantasy football (or professional sports in general) to guide my moral compass. Going out and running a youth football camp or staying after practice to sign footballs for children doesn't make you a good dude.

I remember reading a story on Russell Westbrook and why he seemingly doesn't have a ton of "friends in the NBA" and one player spoke anonymously saying he was one of the few guys that didn't cheat on his wife, so they couldn't bond with him on the road since he just chose to stay in his hotel room instead of hitting the clubs.

Every employer has some turds in their workforce. Every NFL team has some dudes that are grade-A pieces of crap off camera. It is what it is.

To use the Tyreek Hill example: I have an issue with what he did, but I don't have an issue putting him on my fantasy team. If I owned the Chiefs (or any NFL team), I would have an issue writing that guy 6 and 7 figure pay checks.

[thebeast]

If they are on an NFL roster they can be on my roster, but I do discount value if I feel there is a risk to a player being suspended as I do with injury. This thread made me thing though, when is the last time you heard about DV in the NBA? Steroids are really bad for you all around.

[Jigga94]

It's fantasy football. My owning of those players does not equal an endorsement of their activities. I'll own and start them.

I personally agree. I was more curious about the many people who have posted recently being adamant about not owning Hill in light of the recent allegations how they apply this principle applies to other players etc.

I'm with Pac_Eddy here. I fund it funny that people need to let you know they won't roster a certain player for x reason, time and time again.

[MEuRaH]

When it comes to football, I can't own anybody that I suspect is a piece of garbage simply because I never want to catch myself rooting for them, so Hill is out. I've never owned him, probably never will. Same with Dalvin Cook (animal abuser/woman puncher). I don't think either of these guys have changed. If they do, I'll adjust my feelings accordingly.

Vick is a great example. I hated him with a passion at one point. I think he's made his amends. He has a family now and even dogs that he loves and plays with. He's a changed man, and my opinion on him has softened.

I don't know who R Kelly is and I don't watch movies/tv so I don't know who Depp is. I've seen pictures, I know he's in those pirate movies.

Michael Jackson is a tough one. I think he was mentally ill. I do believe he's guilty and I can't listen to his music without constantly thinking "this guy is a child molester". If I'm at a wedding and the song comes on, I have to pretend to enjoy it. Otherwise, that's a 'no' for me as well. I've changed the station more than once when his songs came on.

OJ Simpson? Loved him growing up. Guy was a legend to me. I can't watch his highlights anymore without hating the guy.

Hunt is different for me. He made his actions in the heat of the moment. Terrible decision and he's paid for it. He's made his amends. The victim even met with him face to face to talk about that night. That's different than everyone else mentioned above, who made conscious decisions to be a terrible person time and time again.

10-15 years ago I probably wouldn't have cared about any of this. But now that I see what rooting for these people does to the victims... I don't want to put myself in that category anymore. I don't remember the name of that documentary... think it was a youtube special... but it forever affected my current reasoning towards players like Hill & Cook. Nope, can't do it. I'm out.

[killer_of_giants]

Since me owning a guy in fantasy football doesn't actually help a sh*t bag out in real life, like an NFL team rostering and paying said sh*tbag, I have no issues owning the likes of Hunt, Hill, Mixon, etc.

i may also add, there's nothing high-horsey in my taking distance from the art or craft of people i think are cunts, it's just that i don't like to cheer them (hill case) or actually feel kind of guilty about liking the artistic output of some nazi shitcunts.
i know i may miss out on good stuff and have no beef with people who don't. it's just not for me.

[IR1]

I'll shy away from players I have moral issues with, but I tend to avoid movies/songs/etc if I have an issue with the artist. For me, I tend to avoid those players in FF due to suspension risk/loss of value.

[lanemitchell96]

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