The official 2019 Plant Your Flag thread

[bjd5211]

I can accept some might have their personal rankings like that and that perhaps there's a substantial minority with that view. That couldn't be farther from the truth, from my perspective- Barkley is the locked in guy with tier 1 all to himself. Barkley is the true RB with the proven home run hitting ability in either the run or passing game. As you point out, McCaffrey's value spring from his pass game usage- what happens when the new QB in Carolina isn't check down Charlie?

The only thing I can see arguing in McCaffrey's favor is his pass game prowess could extend his career beyond when his run game value/production diminishes, but Barkley is no slouch there either.

I would easily trade CMC for Barkley straight up, and Barkley is tier 1 by himself for me too. As for his receiving skills he's just as good as CMC (he had 91 receptions as a rookie), CMC has just been featured a little bit more by his offense. One concern I do have about Barkley as a receiver though is his QB, Jones would consistently hold on to the ball a lit longer than Eli and look to either run himself or force something further down field rather than just dump it of to Saquon and give him a chance to make a play in space. Jones needs to do a much better job of getting the ball into the hands of his best playmaker and one of the very best in the league.

[Pullo Vision]

I've seen individual rankings with CMC over Barkley, but this is disheartening- https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... 0-jan-2020

[bjd5211]

I've seen individual rankings with CMC over Barkley, but this is disheartening- https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... 0-jan-2020

Why? Their loss.

[Pullo Vision]

I've seen individual rankings with CMC over Barkley, but this is disheartening- https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... 0-jan-2020

Why? Their loss.

I'm not in any startups right now and can't take advantage...

[M-Dub]

I've seen individual rankings with CMC over Barkley, but this is disheartening- https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... 0-jan-2020

Why? Their loss.

I'm not in any startups right now and can't take advantage...

Give me a break with the histrionics. You really think you’d be massively getting over on your league by taking Saquon at 1.02 in a startup? It’s “disheartening” that a guy who is only eight months older and has been THE RB1 for two straight seasons, including one of the most prolific fantasy seasons EVER by an RB this past season, is ranked one slot above him?

You can certainly make a solid case for either guy to be the 1.01, but acting like it’s Saquon and not even close is what’s really absurd.

[FantasyFreak]

Why? Their loss.

I'm not in any startups right now and can't take advantage...

Give me a break with the histrionics. You really think you’d be massively getting over on your league by taking Saquon at 1.02 in a startup? It’s “disheartening” that a guy who is only eight months older and has been THE RB1 for two straight seasons, including one of the most prolific fantasy seasons EVER by an RB this past season, is ranked one slot above him?

You can certainly make a solid case for either guy to be the 1.01, but acting like it’s Saquon and not even close is what’s really absurd.

Barkley was the RB1 in a lot of my leagues. It was within a few points either, way. However, I understand your point. I prefer Barkley, but it's certainly not wrong to take CMC, from a production and usage perspective. I think Barkley is the more talented player, and would certainly be my pick, but we really have no idea how any of it will turn out.

[M-Dub]

I'm not in any startups right now and can't take advantage...

Give me a break with the histrionics. You really think you’d be massively getting over on your league by taking Saquon at 1.02 in a startup? It’s “disheartening” that a guy who is only eight months older and has been THE RB1 for two straight seasons, including one of the most prolific fantasy seasons EVER by an RB this past season, is ranked one slot above him?

You can certainly make a solid case for either guy to be the 1.01, but acting like it’s Saquon and not even close is what’s really absurd.

Barkley was the RB1 in a lot of my leagues. It was within a few points either, way. However, I understand your point. I prefer Barkley, but it's certainly not wrong to take CMC, from a production and usage perspective. I think Barkley is the more talented player, and would certainly be my pick, but we really have no idea how any of it will turn out.

Totally. I don’t fault anyone for preferring Barkley. I’m not even 100% sure I prefer CMC. Haha. Just the last few posts acting like it was a clear-cut solved equation that Barkley is unequivocally better was a bit much.

[FantasyFreak]

Give me a break with the histrionics. You really think you’d be massively getting over on your league by taking Saquon at 1.02 in a startup? It’s “disheartening” that a guy who is only eight months older and has been THE RB1 for two straight seasons, including one of the most prolific fantasy seasons EVER by an RB this past season, is ranked one slot above him?

You can certainly make a solid case for either guy to be the 1.01, but acting like it’s Saquon and not even close is what’s really absurd.

Barkley was the RB1 in a lot of my leagues. It was within a few points either, way. However, I understand your point. I prefer Barkley, but it's certainly not wrong to take CMC, from a production and usage perspective. I think Barkley is the more talented player, and would certainly be my pick, but we really have no idea how any of it will turn out.

Totally. I don’t fault anyone for preferring Barkley. I’m not even 100% sure I prefer CMC. Haha. Just the last few posts acting like it was a clear-cut solved equation that Barkley is unequivocally better was a bit much.

Completely agree. I meant Barkley was the RB1 in my leagues in 2018, BTW. This year it wasn't close. I agree, though. Can't fault anyone wanting CMC over, Barkley, and the idea you are getting one over on them is a a bit much.

[M-Dub]

Barkley was the RB1 in a lot of my leagues. It was within a few points either, way. However, I understand your point. I prefer Barkley, but it's certainly not wrong to take CMC, from a production and usage perspective. I think Barkley is the more talented player, and would certainly be my pick, but we really have no idea how any of it will turn out.

Totally. I don’t fault anyone for preferring Barkley. I’m not even 100% sure I prefer CMC. Haha. Just the last few posts acting like it was a clear-cut solved equation that Barkley is unequivocally better was a bit much.

Completely agree. I meant Barkley was the RB1 in my leagues in 2018, BTW. This year it wasn't close. I agree, though. Can't fault anyone wanting CMC over, Barkley, and the idea you are getting one over on them is a a bit much.

Yeah, 2018 was pretty much a wash. It looks like CMC was the RB1 in my two leagues that reward return yards and Saquon was the RB1 in the one that doesn’t. They weren’t separated by more that 9 points in any of them.

It actually hurts a little to have to stick up for CMC. Three years ago I was firmly on Team Mixon and drafted him at 1.03 over McCaffrey. As bad as that was, I’m sure I don’t have nearly the same degree of regret as the guy who took Mike Williams at 1.04. Haha.

[Pullo Vision]

Totally. I don’t fault anyone for preferring Barkley. I’m not even 100% sure I prefer CMC. Haha. Just the last few posts acting like it was a clear-cut solved equation that Barkley is unequivocally better was a bit much.

Completely agree. I meant Barkley was the RB1 in my leagues in 2018, BTW. This year it wasn't close. I agree, though. Can't fault anyone wanting CMC over, Barkley, and the idea you are getting one over on them is a a bit much.

Yeah, 2018 was pretty much a wash. It looks like CMC was the RB1 in my two leagues that reward return yards and Saquon was the RB1 in the one that doesn’t. They weren’t separated by more that 9 points in any of them.

It actually hurts a little to have to stick up for CMC. Three years ago I was firmly on Team Mixon and drafted him at 1.03 over McCaffrey. As bad as that was, I’m sure I don’t have nearly the same degree of regret as the guy who took Mike Williams at 1.04. Haha.

McCaffrey doesn't have the build of a between the tackles RB. He *might* succeed as a receiver any given year, but to do the job assigned to RBs, too many things need to break out right- blocking scheme, quality of offensive line and coaching staff, QB. In a bad year, with a rookie QB and an injury wiping out a quarter of his season, Barkley was something like 6th among RBs by average.

Last year was the perfect storm to put CMC over Barkley. I'm not flipping McCaffrey first because of one good/bad year. Just because that year was the most recent year doesn't earn McCaffrey the right to be ranked ahead. Give me the real RB over the guy assigned to play the position and yes, it ain't close for me.

Care to make a going-forward argument, not one based on last year and recency bias?

[Patsfan86]

Completely agree. I meant Barkley was the RB1 in my leagues in 2018, BTW. This year it wasn't close. I agree, though. Can't fault anyone wanting CMC over, Barkley, and the idea you are getting one over on them is a a bit much.

Yeah, 2018 was pretty much a wash. It looks like CMC was the RB1 in my two leagues that reward return yards and Saquon was the RB1 in the one that doesn’t. They weren’t separated by more that 9 points in any of them.

It actually hurts a little to have to stick up for CMC. Three years ago I was firmly on Team Mixon and drafted him at 1.03 over McCaffrey. As bad as that was, I’m sure I don’t have nearly the same degree of regret as the guy who took Mike Williams at 1.04. Haha.

McCaffrey doesn't have the build of a between the tackles RB. He *might* succeed as a receiver any given year, but to do the job assigned to RBs, too many things need to break out right- blocking scheme, quality of offensive line and coaching staff, QB. In a bad year, with a rookie QB and an injury wiping out a quarter of his season, Barkley was something like 6th among RBs by average.

Last year was the perfect storm to put CMC over Barkley. I'm not flipping McCaffrey first because of one good/bad year. Just because that year was the most recent year doesn't earn McCaffrey the right to be ranked ahead. Give me the real RB over the guy assigned to play the position and yes, it ain't close for me.

Care to make a going-forward argument, not one based on last year and recency bias?

A. How is this between the tackles point still a thing? He proved you wrong in 2018 AND 2019, bad argument, give it up.
B. He HAS succeeded as a WR every year he has been in the league, so again how is this a point? Give this up too.

CMC is no doubt a real RB, what are you even talking about? Real RBs nowadays catch the ball. I dont own him or Barkely, id take barkeley over CMC as well but its close and i dont understand your argument at all since all CMC has done is disprove both your points.

Going forward the situations are going to be the same for the most part. If Carolina doesnt stay with Cam then they will get a young QB, Giants have a young QB. DJ Moore is the best WR out of both teams as of now but what he will become we dont really know yet, Giants could draft or sign a WR better than him. Like i stated i would take barkley too but its close.

[Pullo Vision]

Yeah, 2018 was pretty much a wash. It looks like CMC was the RB1 in my two leagues that reward return yards and Saquon was the RB1 in the one that doesn’t. They weren’t separated by more that 9 points in any of them.

It actually hurts a little to have to stick up for CMC. Three years ago I was firmly on Team Mixon and drafted him at 1.03 over McCaffrey. As bad as that was, I’m sure I don’t have nearly the same degree of regret as the guy who took Mike Williams at 1.04. Haha.

McCaffrey doesn't have the build of a between the tackles RB. He *might* succeed as a receiver any given year, but to do the job assigned to RBs, too many things need to break out right- blocking scheme, quality of offensive line and coaching staff, QB. In a bad year, with a rookie QB and an injury wiping out a quarter of his season, Barkley was something like 6th among RBs by average.

Last year was the perfect storm to put CMC over Barkley. I'm not flipping McCaffrey first because of one good/bad year. Just because that year was the most recent year doesn't earn McCaffrey the right to be ranked ahead. Give me the real RB over the guy assigned to play the position and yes, it ain't close for me.

Care to make a going-forward argument, not one based on last year and recency bias?

A. How is this between the tackles point still a thing? He proved you wrong in 2018 AND 2019, bad argument, give it up.
B. He HAS succeeded as a WR every year he has been in the league, so again how is this a point? Give this up too.

CMC is no doubt a real RB, what are you even talking about? Real RBs nowadays catch the ball. I dont own him or Barkely, id take barkeley over CMC as well but its close and i dont understand your argument at all since all CMC has done is disprove both your points.

Going forward the situations are going to be the same for the most part. If Carolina doesnt stay with Cam then they will get a young QB, Giants have a young QB. DJ Moore is the best WR out of both teams as of now but what he will become we dont really know yet, Giants could draft or sign a WR better than him. Like i stated i would take barkley too but its close.

Maybe I was trying to condense too much into one post.

1- I want the RBs on my team to be able to run it hard up the middle and take on would-be tacklers. From everything I've seen, McCaffrey can't do that consistently. In the right scheme with the right personnel, you can effectively send him between the tackles, but not in the charge downhill and attack the LBs style I prefer.

2- He has proven able to catch passes and get YAC. I'm not doubting that. I do question if he would continue to get that opportunity if the surrounding cast were upgraded, from WR to TE to OL to QB. I'm not gonna dismiss him as a faster Chris Thompson.

3- I've answered what I'm talking about- I want a thumper at RB. McCaffrey is a WR/RB hybrid, and what's worse is they have to manufacture touches in space because he can't attack LBs or DLs in the hole.

4- Your future projection/guess is way too rosy for me. A more mobile QB would be less likely to take the check down. Imagine a slot WR like Golden Tate or Tyler Boyd in Carolina- how would that affect Barkley?

5- McCaffrey, statistically, has been performing near/at his ceiling, but his floor is much lower, imo. When I drafting guys early, one of the first things I look at is floor. I want to get on base, hopefully get a double.

[bjd5211]

I'm fully on board with the Barkley > CMC valuation, but despite their size difference I wouldn't just automatically give the nod to Barkley over CMC in the "running between the tackles" argument. That is clearly not the strength of his game either despite having basically the perfect "Feature Back" build, he is just so explosive and dynamic in the open field that he is looking to bounce it outside for the big play on nearly every touch. Normally this is a bad mindset for RBs to have, but he is just so much more naturally gifted than the vast majority of RBs we've ever seen that this is actually a good thing and something he is capable of doing at a far higher rate than most RBs.

[Pullo Vision]

I'm fully on board with the Barkley > CMC valuation, but despite their size difference I wouldn't just automatically give the nod to Barkley over CMC in the "running between the tackles" argument. That is clearly not the strength of his game either despite having basically the perfect "Feature Back" build, he is just so explosive and dynamic in the open field that he is looking to bounce it outside for the big play on nearly every touch. Normally this is a bad mindset for RBs to have, but he is just so much more naturally gifted than the vast majority of RBs we've ever seen that this is actually a good thing and something he is capable of doing at a far higher rate than most RBs.

Oh, absolutely. Just because I ding McCaffrey for running between the tackles doesn't mean I give Barkley an A+ there.

[M-Dub]

McCaffrey doesn't have the build of a between the tackles RB. He *might* succeed as a receiver any given year, but to do the job assigned to RBs, too many things need to break out right- blocking scheme, quality of offensive line and coaching staff, QB. In a bad year, with a rookie QB and an injury wiping out a quarter of his season, Barkley was something like 6th among RBs by average.

Last year was the perfect storm to put CMC over Barkley. I'm not flipping McCaffrey first because of one good/bad year. Just because that year was the most recent year doesn't earn McCaffrey the right to be ranked ahead. Give me the real RB over the guy assigned to play the position and yes, it ain't close for me.

Care to make a going-forward argument, not one based on last year and recency bias?

A. How is this between the tackles point still a thing? He proved you wrong in 2018 AND 2019, bad argument, give it up.
B. He HAS succeeded as a WR every year he has been in the league, so again how is this a point? Give this up too.

CMC is no doubt a real RB, what are you even talking about? Real RBs nowadays catch the ball. I dont own him or Barkely, id take barkeley over CMC as well but its close and i dont understand your argument at all since all CMC has done is disprove both your points.

Going forward the situations are going to be the same for the most part. If Carolina doesnt stay with Cam then they will get a young QB, Giants have a young QB. DJ Moore is the best WR out of both teams as of now but what he will become we dont really know yet, Giants could draft or sign a WR better than him. Like i stated i would take barkley too but its close.

Maybe I was trying to condense too much into one post.

1- I want the RBs on my team to be able to run it hard up the middle and take on would-be tacklers. From everything I've seen, McCaffrey can't do that consistently. In the right scheme with the right personnel, you can effectively send him between the tackles, but not in the charge downhill and attack the LBs style I prefer.

2- He has proven able to catch passes and get YAC. I'm not doubting that. I do question if he would continue to get that opportunity if the surrounding cast were upgraded, from WR to TE to OL to QB. I'm not gonna dismiss him as a faster Chris Thompson.

3- I've answered what I'm talking about- I want a thumper at RB. McCaffrey is a WR/RB hybrid, and what's worse is they have to manufacture touches in space because he can't attack LBs or DLs in the hole.

4- Your future projection/guess is way too rosy for me. A more mobile QB would be less likely to take the check down. Imagine a slot WR like Golden Tate or Tyler Boyd in Carolina- how would that affect Barkley?

5- McCaffrey, statistically, has been performing near/at his ceiling, but his floor is much lower, imo. When I drafting guys early, one of the first things I look at is floor. I want to get on base, hopefully get a double.

It seems like you just have a personal issue with McCaffrey’s usage/style of play. I want my RBs (and WRs and TEs and QBs, for that matter) to score fantasy points. The more the better. I don’t really care how.