*MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

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Ice
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:49 am
Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:00 am
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:55 pm


That run was nasty. Lamar eats bad D's alive. Miami, Cincy, Arizona. He even played well vs the Pats. He's really entertaining, and productive. However, no way should anyone be taking him over Mahomes in a Dynasty context, IMO.
And yet for the second time this season L. Jackson posted a perfect passer rating.

The run was impressive but he is now in very exclusive company from a passing perspective.
His running sets up his passing. He makes some great throws. They have done a great job designing a system based around his dual threat ability. He's not a guy that can stand back there and make the throws the elite passers in this league can, consistently. That much is obvious. He's already a good passer, though. Greg Roman was a great hire. His passing stats are definitely set up by his legs, though. Let's not kid ourselves. He's not Rodgers, or Mahomes etc. as a passer.
Hard to say his running sets up his passing since he drops back a lot but it certainly makes defenses play safeties up. Agree 100% on coaching!

Jackson is tied for 8th at 8.00 per pass. Mahomes leads the league at 9.00
Mahomes completion percentage is 66.3 18 TD's 1 Int.
Jackson is now 65.9 15 TD's 5 Int.

The big difference is Jackson is 11th in rushing with 6 TD's and an amazing 702 yards with a league leading 6.6 YPC.

Jackson's Points per game average is now second overall at an average of 29.222. Mahomes is 6th at 26.087. CMC still leads fantasy with 30.078.

Even as a big supporter, I don't think any of us realized just how good he would be playing this year. To put what Lamar has done as a passer so far in his young career in perspective;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... ser_rating

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Phaded » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Do you want a logical debate?
You are in the wrong place.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby mild » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:54 pm

Phaded wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:30 pm
Neat.
That's freakin' insane.

Personally, I'm remaining fearless with Jackson - much like the man himself. The point of Fantasy is to win. He is going to power a lot of teams to titles this stretch run *knock on wood* health permitting. He'll probably be the #1 QB on that yearly list of "players who were on playoff teams in fantasy this year".

His improvement from Year 1 to 2 has been remarkable. I always believed, but he truly has the work ethic and desire to keep improving and showing up the doubters. He also went to the perfect team. The narrative that he's going to have a shortened career is really all that the doubters have left - but I really do think we should stop doubting the guy. He did this for 3 years straight in college and accounted for 119 touchdowns. When a narrative sets in in Fantasy / Dynasty, it's always important to question it and consider going the other way - zig when they zag.

Personally, I think year 3 could be even better. Give him another offseason of mechanical training and improvement. Get him some more playmakers from a loaded 2020 draft. And most importantly - check out what happens to their books in 2020 and 2021... via Over the Cap:
The real savings is long-term, however. According to Over The Cap’s calculator, trading Flacco will free up $28.25 million in 2020 and $24.25 million in 2021.

With Jackson on a rookie contract, Baltimore should have some of the most cap space in the league in the coming years. That should help them build up their roster with talent both through free agency and the draft if they wish to be more active.
This is about to be potentially another Seahawks situation, with a Rookie game-changer at QB and the ability to spend to surround him with a loaded team. Choooo-choooooooooooooo.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby AussieMate » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:53 pm

Jackson has proven me wrong many times over, but I would like to see the Ravens get some of these accolades. They have adjusted their game-plan to maximize Jackson's best assets and have set him up for success. More teams should look at what they are doing and realise you can't put a square peg in a round hole and to get creative.

I'm thinking of offering a few 1st's in my 2 qb, 8 team league as the owner is coming last and may bite.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby JOHNNY_COCKTAIL » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:15 pm

Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:49 am
Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:00 am


And yet for the second time this season L. Jackson posted a perfect passer rating.

The run was impressive but he is now in very exclusive company from a passing perspective.
His running sets up his passing. He makes some great throws. They have done a great job designing a system based around his dual threat ability. He's not a guy that can stand back there and make the throws the elite passers in this league can, consistently. That much is obvious. He's already a good passer, though. Greg Roman was a great hire. His passing stats are definitely set up by his legs, though. Let's not kid ourselves. He's not Rodgers, or Mahomes etc. as a passer.
Hard to say his running sets up his passing since he drops back a lot but it certainly makes defenses play safeties up. Agree 100% on coaching!

Jackson is tied for 8th at 8.00 per pass. Mahomes leads the league at 9.00
Mahomes completion percentage is 66.3 18 TD's 1 Int.
Jackson is now 65.9 15 TD's 5 Int.

The big difference is Jackson is 11th in rushing with 6 TD's and an amazing 702 yards with a league leading 6.6 YPC.

Jackson's Points per game average is now second overall at an average of 29.222. Mahomes is 6th at 26.087. CMC still leads fantasy with 30.078.

Even as a big supporter, I don't think any of us realized just how good he would be playing this year. To put what Lamar has done as a passer so far in his young career in perspective;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... ser_rating
You've left out I think a key stat which is pass attempts a game. When Lamar is throwing 20 passes a game and Mahomes is throwing 40 a game. If Lamar was asked to do that he'd have a hard time replicating that completion percentage. Mahomes has also played in nearly 2 full games less due to injury (hardly played vs Denver) and has 2600 yards passing vs 2000 for Jackson. I also think Mahomes took a dip when he was playing hurt weeks 3-7 but what you saw yesterday is what I expect to see out of him the rest of the season.
12 Team PPR (PPR- QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, FLEX, D, K)
QB- Winston
RB- Barkely, Cook, AP
WR- K. Allen, Hill, Diggs, Golladay, DJ Moore, Shepard, Enunwa, Callaway, Chark
TE- Kelce, Gesicki

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TE: Mike Gesicki, Vance McDonald

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QB: Wilson, Ryan, Eli, Fitzpatrick
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Ekelar, I. Smith, D. Lewis, Gio
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TE: McDonald, Reed, Hurst, Everett

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QB: Luck, Wilson, Lock, Fitzpatrick
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TE: Kelce, Everett, Smith

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Weknownothing86 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:07 am

Comparing Mahomes to Lamar is pointless. Two totally different players with different styles. I hate comparing players, its useless but i get its what we do on these boards. For fantasy purposes they arent all that far apart. For real life purposes im still taking mahomes and im the biggest Lamar supporter there is.
If i have to explain my screen name to you than you dont understand Fantasy Football.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:28 am

JOHNNY_COCKTAIL wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:15 pm
Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:49 am


His running sets up his passing. He makes some great throws. They have done a great job designing a system based around his dual threat ability. He's not a guy that can stand back there and make the throws the elite passers in this league can, consistently. That much is obvious. He's already a good passer, though. Greg Roman was a great hire. His passing stats are definitely set up by his legs, though. Let's not kid ourselves. He's not Rodgers, or Mahomes etc. as a passer.
Hard to say his running sets up his passing since he drops back a lot but it certainly makes defenses play safeties up. Agree 100% on coaching!

Jackson is tied for 8th at 8.00 per pass. Mahomes leads the league at 9.00
Mahomes completion percentage is 66.3 18 TD's 1 Int.
Jackson is now 65.9 15 TD's 5 Int.

The big difference is Jackson is 11th in rushing with 6 TD's and an amazing 702 yards with a league leading 6.6 YPC.

Jackson's Points per game average is now second overall at an average of 29.222. Mahomes is 6th at 26.087. CMC still leads fantasy with 30.078.

Even as a big supporter, I don't think any of us realized just how good he would be playing this year. To put what Lamar has done as a passer so far in his young career in perspective;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... ser_rating

You've left out I think a key stat which is pass attempts a game
. When Lamar is throwing 20 passes a game and Mahomes is throwing 40 a game. If Lamar was asked to do that he'd have a hard time replicating that completion percentage. Mahomes has also played in nearly 2 full games less due to injury (hardly played vs Denver) and has 2600 yards passing vs 2000 for Jackson. I also think Mahomes took a dip when he was playing hurt weeks 3-7 but what you saw yesterday is what I expect to see out of him the rest of the season.
Not really, No one is arguing Mahomes isn't the better passer. Mahomes is tied for 5th in pass attempts for QB's with 5 plus starts at 36.4 per game and leads the league at 9.0. ( Last season he was 36.3 and 8.8 ). It is obvious to all, Mahomes is a serious weapon at QB. He may be regressing in TD's a bit but overall his play is every bit as good if not a little better this season in his system.

Jackson last year only threw on average 10.6 times per game at 58.2% with 7.1 clip.

This season the Ravens system is very different and Jackson is playing within that system. Jackson's attempts have increased on average 17.7 attempts per game. He is now averaging 28.3 per game. His accuracy has increased from 58.2 to 65.9% and his average has increased from 7.1 to 8.0.

In QB speak, Jackson has improved astronomically this season which is why he is now in the conversation as a top tier QB in both fantasy and in the NFL. Jackson's passing is now a lethal weapon to go along with his video skill running ability.

That said, you won't find a bigger Mahomes fan than me. As a tech grad, I couldn't be happier with him and he is my top QB but it is not a reach if someone thinks Jackson is the best fantasy QB.

The perfect passing rating formula is not the end all but it is interesting that Jackson is only one of three QB's in the history of the game that has accomplished it twice in the same season. (Ben R. & P Manning; one of Manning's was in the playoffs) Even more special is Jackson doing this given his low number of starts and the fact that running the ball isn't even considered.

The article I have attached above goes into some detail of this interesting stat.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby MrUbuto » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:44 am

Watson vs jackson this week. Lamar should get the better of it because of Baltimore's amazing defense
QB - DWatson(HOU)Winston(TB)Finely(DEN)
RB - TGurley(LAR)DJohnson(ARI)NChubb(CLE)DHenry(TEN)
WR - ODB(NYG)AJ Green(CIN)ACooper (DAL)CDavis(TEN)
TE - HHenry(SD)DGoeddart(PHI)
K - Zurlien(LAR)Badgley(LAC)
Def - JAGS DET
[rookie] NHarry(NE)MBrown(BAL)Haskins(WAS)

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 - 2020's
Rosters must always be 3qbs 4wrs 4rbs 2tes 2kickers 2dst and protected players dont take up a roster spot, but are only for rookie/2nd year players that were drafted

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby ArrylT » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 pm

The other Lamar Jackson threads - have been moved to the SF & Player Debate forums - just an FYI in case anyone was wondering - since we indeed do NOT need 3 similar active threads in one forum & I did not see the need to merge or lock any of them. So if you do feel the desire/need to discuss Lamar Jackson in multiple threads feel free - will just have to do it in different sections.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:49 pm

ArrylT wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 pm
The other Lamar Jackson threads - have been moved to the SF & Player Debate forums - just an FYI in case anyone was wondering - since we indeed do NOT need 3 similar active threads in one forum & I did not see the need to merge or lock any of them. So if you do feel the desire/need to discuss Lamar Jackson in multiple threads feel free - will just have to do it in different sections.
Good solution. Sorry to be part of the problem. I look forward to GMo vs Lamar in the Player Debate sub :thumbup:
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck (IR)
RB: Sony, D. Freeman, Penny, Mostert, J. Jackson, Snell, Gus
WR: Tyreek, Julio, D.J. Moore, Cooks, Hollywood, C. Davis, MVS, Parris, Dorsett, Preston (IR)
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4 (NH)

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Foles, Minshew, Cam (IR)
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Samuels, J. Jackson
WR: D.J. Moore, Mike Will, Hollywood, Deebo, C. Davis, MVS, Diontae, Lazard, AB, Parris (IR)
TE: Andrews, Henry, Jonnu, Gesicki
2020: 1.07-10, 2.02, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby mild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:32 pm

Sorry as well, I was just feeling myself a little bit after that Cincy / Patriots / Seahawks run... I'll try to maintain a sense of decorum and composure going forward. :lol:

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:44 am

ArrylT wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 pm
The other Lamar Jackson threads - have been moved to the SF & Player Debate forums - just an FYI in case anyone was wondering - since we indeed do NOT need 3 similar active threads in one forum & I did not see the need to merge or lock any of them. So if you do feel the desire/need to discuss Lamar Jackson in multiple threads feel free - will just have to do it in different sections.
Fanboys outta control!!!! :lol: :wink:
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Weknownothing86 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:28 am

I contributed to the problem as well, i have a real "Argue with people about Lamar" issue going on and i just cant help myself. My friends are sick of it.
If i have to explain my screen name to you than you dont understand Fantasy Football.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby mild » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:41 pm

So now that we've anointed Lamar the greatest QB to ever play the game *and* the only thing left to debate is "How long can he do it" - did anyone else here see Hayden Winks' charting of his hits so far this season? It's at the bottom of this page:

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/fanta ... l-forecast

At the least, it's fun fuel to the tyre-fire of this thread. Here's the takeaway paragraph if you're lazy / allergic to reading any more Lamar stats:
Overall, Lamar’s elite athleticism helps him avoid being hit hard both as a runner and passer. When Lamar runs, it’s most often on the safer designed runs, and he’s sliding or running out of bounds at a higher rate on the more dangerous quarterback scrambles. Lamar could (and arguably should) slide more often on his designed runs, but he is able to avoid hard hits because defenders slow down before contact to try to avoid getting juked. Lamar’s awareness has also kept him safer while throwing, so I’m skeptical that Lamar is more injury-prone than other quarterbacks like the Boomers like to say. Even if he is, Lamar shouldn’t change his style because he has Super Bowl winning upside while playing like this.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:14 am

After his 3rd straight game with a 70% plus completion percentage and his 5th 100 plus passer rating this year (3rd in row) he is now clearly in the conversation for the MVP of the league and considered the favorite by some with 7 passing TD's in the last 2 games.

He is now 4th overall in Passer rating and 4th in total QBR for starting QB's.


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