Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the NFL & Fantasy

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bjd5211
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:48 am

djeternal2 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:42 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:34 am
Yes, but he's also taking a lot less hits in the pocket because he's not passing as much. Watson gets crushed consistently behind the LOS AND he takes hits on his runs.
You're arguing something I didn't say nor I don't think anyone else did. But since you brought in hits in the pocket into the convo in 2018 Watson took 59 hits as a passer. So combine that with his 99 rushes you get 158 total hits. So far this year LJax has 99 rushes & 4 hits as a passer equaling 103. At that rate he'll still take around 25% more hits than in Watson's career high.
So Rushing Attempts ARE Hits? You just said they weren't, which is it?

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:56 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:48 am
djeternal2 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:42 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:34 am
Yes, but he's also taking a lot less hits in the pocket because he's not passing as much. Watson gets crushed consistently behind the LOS AND he takes hits on his runs.
You're arguing something I didn't say nor I don't think anyone else did. But since you brought in hits in the pocket into the convo in 2018 Watson took 59 hits as a passer. So combine that with his 99 rushes you get 158 total hits. So far this year LJax has 99 rushes & 4 hits as a passer equaling 103. At that rate he'll still take around 25% more hits than in Watson's career high.
So Rushing Attempts ARE Hits? You just said they weren't, which is it?
Fair in my haste to write it up while at work I did add the two together which I should not have because you are correct a rushing attempt does not automatically mean he got hit. At the same time it does not mean he did not get hit or that he didn't get hit multiple times. I'll see if I can find #s for hits on rushing but I'd bet with the volume of rushing attempts LJax still takes more hits. If rush attempts were equal I'd completely agree with your premise that Watson takes more hits; but, the attempts are not equal. Not even close.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:09 am

But there is a massive discrepancy between their hits as passers, which I would argue are the more dangerous hits. It's why the NFL put in all the rules to protect QBs in the pocket, no hits to the head, no low hits, no body weight etc. Those hits result in season ending injuries fairly often, but it's rare that QBs get major injuries like that when they run down the field, the only one I really remember is Jimmy G last year and he wasn't even hit. Obviously I'm sure there are some examples, just can't think of any off my head, but QBs definitely get hurt in the pocket far more. I think Lamars running is more a long-term injury risk than short term with little injuries adding up over time rather than a big injury. As time goes on though he's going to pass a little more and run a little less, I don't think it can be argued that he's made massive strides as a passer between last year and today, although he obviously has more work to do.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:14 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:09 am
But there is a massive discrepancy between their hits as passers, which I would argue are the more dangerous hits. It's why the NFL put in all the rules to protect QBs in the pocket, no hits to the head, no low hits, no body weight etc. Those hits result in season ending injuries fairly often, but it's rare that QBs get major injuries like that when they run down the field, the only one I really remember is Jimmy G last year and he wasn't even hit. Obviously I'm sure there are some examples, just can't think of any off my head, but QBs definitely get hurt in the pocket far more. I think Lamars running is more a long-term injury risk than short term with little injuries adding up over time rather than a big injury. As time goes on though he's going to pass a little more and run a little less, I don't think it can be argued that he's made massive strides as a passer between last year and today, although he obviously has more work to do.
I disagree. You mentioned all the rules put in place to protect passers in the pocket which imo makes those less dangerous because the NFL doesn't want teams losing the face of the franchise. Once a QB becomes a runner tho all those rules to protect him disappear which is why there's chatter about the hits taken as a rushing QB. There's far fewer rules protecting that QB once he becomes a runner.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am

The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am
The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.
Of course they don’t stop all hits from happening as evidenced by so many roughing penalties.

That said, for QB’s this season, diving forward is no different than sliding for a QB these days as it relates to ball position. Not sure I like that btw.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby BigJoeWall72 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm

I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
1: 12-team PPR, all TD=6 pts, tackle heavy, start 22 (11-O, 11-D, 3 Flex each)
Stafford, Wentz, Minshew, Trubisky
CMC, M.Ingram, Dam.Williams, Ito, D.Harris, J.Jackson
Hopkins, OBJ, T.Hill, Landry, Cobb, E.Sanders, Edelman, C.Kirk, P.Williams, Isabella
Kelce, J.Smith, Ebron, Oliver
J.Bosa, R.Quinn, Hargrave
C.Barton, T.Edmunds, BJ.Goodson, Hicks, Hitchens, Kwiatkoski, Littleton, Reddick, Warner
Collins, J.Adams, K.Neal, S.Williams
2.07, 3.12, 4.01, 5.07, 5.12
2011, 2013, 2014 Champ

2: 14-team balanced scoring (TE super-premium), start 18 (9-O, 9-D, 2 Flex each)
Mahomes, Rodgers, Lock
M.Gordon, Dam.Williams, C.Carson, Lindsay, B.Scott
Keenan, Landry, Golladay, Edelman, T.Boyd, D.Johnson
Kelce, Olsen, D.Waller, Oliver, Warring
Buckner, Cox, D.Lawrence, Hargrave
Kwon, Greenla, Kwiatkoski, Leonard, B.Martinez, Roquan, Trevathan, Wagner
J.Adams, J.Johnson, R.Harrison, T.Wilson
1.06, 1.13, 2.13, 3.13, 4.03, 4.04, 5.01
2015, 2016, 2018 Champ

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:08 am

BigJoeWall72 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm
I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
He's taken unecessary hits, though, which is concerning. Not remotely close to Russ in terms of avoiding contact. Nor is he even close to Russ in the MVP conversation, either. Recency bias. He played well vs the Pats, but he's had multiple games this year where he's been poor. Wilson has not. This is not me hating on Lamar, but he's not on the level Wilson is on either of these things. Russ in on another level.
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer/Runner Up

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby BigJoeWall72 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:18 am

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:08 am
BigJoeWall72 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm
I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
He's taken unecessary hits, though, which is concerning. Not remotely close to Russ in terms of avoiding contact. Nor is he even close to Russ in the MVP conversation, either. Recency bias. He played well vs the Pats, but he's had multiple games this year where he's been poor. Wilson has not. This is not me hating on Lamar, but he's not on the level Wilson is on either of these things. Russ in on another level.
Um... ok? I didn't say that Lamar was in the MVP conversation. The MVP is Russel Wilson's at this point, and it's not even close (in my opinion). I don't know where that's coming from in response to my post, because I didn't bring it up.

What I did say, was that in a few years, if he keeps up this current style of play, Lamar Jackson will have redefined how it is possible to play the position in this style in the NFL. And like I said a couple different times, I wasn't 100% sure that Lamar always avoids big hits, but that's just what it seems like to me when I get a chance to see him play.
1: 12-team PPR, all TD=6 pts, tackle heavy, start 22 (11-O, 11-D, 3 Flex each)
Stafford, Wentz, Minshew, Trubisky
CMC, M.Ingram, Dam.Williams, Ito, D.Harris, J.Jackson
Hopkins, OBJ, T.Hill, Landry, Cobb, E.Sanders, Edelman, C.Kirk, P.Williams, Isabella
Kelce, J.Smith, Ebron, Oliver
J.Bosa, R.Quinn, Hargrave
C.Barton, T.Edmunds, BJ.Goodson, Hicks, Hitchens, Kwiatkoski, Littleton, Reddick, Warner
Collins, J.Adams, K.Neal, S.Williams
2.07, 3.12, 4.01, 5.07, 5.12
2011, 2013, 2014 Champ

2: 14-team balanced scoring (TE super-premium), start 18 (9-O, 9-D, 2 Flex each)
Mahomes, Rodgers, Lock
M.Gordon, Dam.Williams, C.Carson, Lindsay, B.Scott
Keenan, Landry, Golladay, Edelman, T.Boyd, D.Johnson
Kelce, Olsen, D.Waller, Oliver, Warring
Buckner, Cox, D.Lawrence, Hargrave
Kwon, Greenla, Kwiatkoski, Leonard, B.Martinez, Roquan, Trevathan, Wagner
J.Adams, J.Johnson, R.Harrison, T.Wilson
1.06, 1.13, 2.13, 3.13, 4.03, 4.04, 5.01
2015, 2016, 2018 Champ

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am

The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 am

Even the doubters have to admit he has gotten better at passing AND is playing the QB position as a whole (passing,running, leading, running the offense, etc) better than anyone expected this season. Lets all try and remember its his second season, first full season. All i really care about is the steady progression he has shown throwing the ball, running the offense, becoming a leader, etc. He most definitely hasnt shown any regression. The most important thing with these young QBs is can they keep the job, and Lamar has shown more than any 2018 drafted QB that he is going to keep his job. The short leash some people give these guys is just astounding and annoying. Its like Lamar has to have Tom Brady accuracy right out the gate and no one is giving him any room to grow. Lamar is getting better in every aspect of his game and most importantly wins. The doubters are just flat out wrong on him. Keep hating ill keep reaping the rewards for my fantasy team.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:40 am

I love how anyone doubting Ljax is a hater. Sorry but I heard the same arguments with Tim Teblow too. He was out of the league after 3 years including taking his team to the playoffs and getting a playoff win. With Kaepernick there was talk about replacing him after the team stopped winning and that was AFTER leading his team to a SB appearance. Color me a hater all you want but I feel as tho I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends. Am I saying there's 0 chance LJax proves me wrong? No; but, I think that possibility is a lot closer to 0 than it is 100%. And that's a lot more than his supporters are willing to admit.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:01 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am
The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
Who's hating? Strong word.
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer/Runner Up

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Crowder, Agholor, Sanu, , D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Clay

Taxi: Mims, Asiasi

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:11 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am
The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
Kaep was in the MVP convo in 2013 too.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/ ... kaepernick

But ok :roll:
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am

Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that. Dont lump lamar in with totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.


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