*MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:15 pm

I would say he is redefining the position because he is the first "running QB" being given the opportunity to run an offense that is being tailored to his skillset, rather than the team trying to mold him into a traditional type of offense and QB role and just letting him run out of that.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:26 pm

By redefining, we are seeing a Qb above 63% on track to be around 3000 yards passing and well over 1000 rushing with far more creative schemes than anything Vick ever dreamed of.

Vick had one season in 12 where he threw over 60% with 70 plus attempts.

We have seen a few try to do what Lamar does but in reality he is a drop back passer with a lot of exotic designed run here to fore we have only seen in college.

You can disagree with the characterization I guess but what we are actually seeing is transformative.

Time will tell if this style catches on but Lamar is extremely rare. We simply haven’t seen his combination of size and skill sets at such a young age.

Think he actually has the 6th highest QBR in the NFL this season.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:36 pm

Anyone want to calculate Lamar's FPPT as a RB?

Maybe then we can split the QB numbers too and decide what he's better at. Maybe we can even let the Ravens decide where they should play him

Edit: maybe we can see how many of his rushes end up OOB vs under a pile. A RB has to have a lower % of that
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm

Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:26 pm
By redefining, we are seeing a Qb above 63% on track to be around 3000 yards passing and well over 1000 rushing with far more creative schemes than anything Vick ever dreamed of.

Vick had one season in 12 where he threw over 60% with 70 plus attempts.

We have seen a few try to do what Lamar does but in reality he is a drop back passer with a lot of exotic designed run here to fore we have only seen in college.

You can disagree with the characterization I guess but what we are actually seeing is transformative.

Time will tell if this style catches on but Lamar is extremely rare. We simply haven’t seen his combination of size and skill sets at such a young age.

Think he actually has the 6th highest QBR in the NFL this season.
First off, any passing stats being compared from now to Vick's era need to be taken with a grain of salt. The reality is, it's just easier to rack up passing yards now with the way the rules have changed. I am not saying Vick was better, just that it's not new that there is a player like this, although he is rare. The thing that they may redefine, is his usage, as I think he may be on pace to break the rushing attempts record, as well. He's already had 99 attempts, and they seem to be increasing. The last 3 games. 19, 14, 16.

Someone was commenting about him being a running back, which obviously isn't true, but those are RB type carry numbers. Maybe the Ravens see Jackson as a 1 contract QB, and are just going to throw caution to the wind on his rookie deal. The amount of rushes will almost certainly lead to an injury, IMO, and I don't see this usage in the run game being sustainable long term, but I don't think the Ravens care about long term with him at the moment.

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby mild » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:54 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm
To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
Disagree. This is getting boring. Lets move on.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:57 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm



To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:57 pm

mild wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:54 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm
To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
Disagree. This is getting boring. Lets move on.
Go right ahead and move on. I wasn't even quoting you.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm
We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat.
Yeah, peoples memories are really short. It's like how Mahomes would throw for 50+ td's a year except people forget about injuries and everything else. Jackson started out hot and had me reconsidering just how good he could be but his passing (in terms of yardage) has gotten progressively worse throughout the year.

edit: no designed runs for RGIII? What is the person above me smoking lmao...

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:05 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:57 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm



To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.
So if Lamar is redefining the QB position we should see QBs going forward to be getting 15-20 carries/game?
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:07 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm
We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat.
Yeah, peoples memories are really short. It's like how Mahomes would throw for 50+ td's a year except people forget about injuries and everything else. Jackson started out hot and had me reconsidering just how good he could be but his passing (in terms of yardage) has gotten progressively worse throughout the year.

edit: no designed runs for RGIII? What is the person above me smoking lmao...
Not to the degree that Lamar is getting them. All those guys had some of that stuff built into the offense, but that's not what the offense was built around. The Baltimore offense is designed to specifically fit Lamar's talents, those other offenses were traditional offenses with wrinkles added in.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:09 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:05 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:57 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 pm



To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.
That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.
So if Lamar is redefining the QB position we should see QBs going forward to be getting 15-20 carries/game?
It's not going to happen over night, but perhaps as more athletes like Lamar are given the opportunity to play QB coming up rather than being forced to move to RB/WR/DB.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby jenkins.math » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:17 pm

The only unique thing I've seen at the NFL with Lamar is the fact that the Ravens have decided to build an entire offense around Lamar's ability to run. Which is totally different than using a guy's mobility in my eyes. They are letting him run 15 times a game which I just don't see being sustainable long term. Running QBs just don't age well, and that would be my largest concern with his career. The 2nd concern is going to be game film. It took about a year and a half, but the NFL figured out the Rams offense and slowed that down. Remember when the wildcat was all the rage? Yeah that got figured out too. I love what they are doing now and I love watching it, but I can't help but believe that this offense is going to get figured out as well since that seems to happen every single time. If we are to trust history, then Lamar is going to have to continue to develop as a passer if he wants to have staying power in the league.

For the time being though he is must watch television every week.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:23 pm

jenkins.math wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:17 pm
The only unique thing I've seen at the NFL with Lamar is the fact that the Ravens have decided to build an entire offense around Lamar's ability to run. Which is totally different than using a guy's mobility in my eyes. They are letting him run 15 times a game which I just don't see being sustainable long term. Running QBs just don't age well, and that would be my largest concern with his career. The 2nd concern is going to be game film. It took about a year and a half, but the NFL figured out the Rams offense and slowed that down. Remember when the wildcat was all the rage? Yeah that got figured out too. I love what they are doing now and I love watching it, but I can't help but believe that this offense is going to get figured out as well since that seems to happen every single time. If we are to trust history, then Lamar is going to have to continue to develop as a passer if he wants to have staying power in the league.

For the time being though he is must watch television every week.
I drafted him in redraft, SuperFlex. I love it for the short term. If I had him in Dynasty, I'd pray he lasts the year, as a contender, and if I was rebuilding I'd be attempting to move him for a boatload, in SF leagues. I don't think his Dynasty value will get much higher, and if you can get a QB you really like plus, I'd be making that move. That's just me, though. I don't see this offense lasting or Lamar staying healthy year after year, like this.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:47 pm

My actual quote was: "Lamar is 12-4 and redefining the position within his skill set." Their staff is doing an outstanding job playing to his strengths."

Last year as a starter he averaged 12.42 attempts per game and the fantasy community decided he couldn't throw it out of his shadow. That false narrative continues.

This year he is not only running better but the offense has been retooled big time around his skill set and his attempts are 29.75 times per game. In addition to an increase of over 17 attempts a game his YPA is up over 1/2 yard from last season with an increase in accuracy pf 6 plus percent.

This 22 year old kid is amazing to a point he is squarely in the MVP conversation regardless of what one wants to call it.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:04 pm

Ice wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:47 pm
My actual quote was: "Lamar is 12-4 and redefining the position within his skill set." Their staff is doing an outstanding job playing to his strengths."

Last year as a starter he averaged 12.42 attempts per game and the fantasy community decided he couldn't throw it out of his shadow. That false narrative continues.

This year he is not only running better but the offense has been retooled big time around his skill set and his attempts are 29.75 times per game. In addition to an increase of over 17 attempts a game his YPA is up over 1/2 yard from last season with an increase in accuracy pf 6 plus percent.

This 22 year old kid is amazing to a point he is squarely in the MVP conversation regardless of what one wants to call it.
Good explanation. Thanks.
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