More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:31 am

Didn't Tyler Johnson get snubbed for the Senior Bowl? That gives me pause.
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lumps » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:36 am

I think the issue centers around people's (I'm not referring to anyone specifically here, just overall) lack of understanding of what "comp" means and what "ceiling" or "potential" are in this context.

Comp = comparable player. This isn't an exact replica by it's very definition. Even saying something like Bryce Love is Chris Johnson doesn't mean Love IS CJ. It's just that he is comparable.

The other variant here people REALLY meaning "ceiling" when saying "comp." Someone like Laviska Shenault's "ceiling" is through the roof. Laviska has the body of Fitz and better skills than Patterson. If he could learn to run routes (and have the work ethic) like Fitz, he is going to be a MONSTER. The reality of that, though, is that is highly unlikely. If I were to say his "comp" is "a much more athletic Fitz" that is disingenuous.
Factory of Sadness wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:37 pm


Yes, hyperbole is annoying, as is the mindless pre-draft chatter about David Montgomery having the balance of LeVeon Bell, the thighs of Thanos and the digestive organs of a python. Making a comparison between a prospect and a pro though is a sensible thing to do and shouldn't always trigger the same circle-jerk of self-congratulatory, self-appointed experts making these predictable complaints.
This. People get excited and have rose-colored glasses (beer goggles? :lol: ) and/or are too fresh to dynasty and think everyone is a stud. They haven't been crushed like us yet. (see sig) They haven't drafted Justin Hunter, Treadwell, and Tavon Austin. They haven't been burned by Josh Gordon since 2014.

Speaking of:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/3 ... modern-era
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:42 am

chalorpas wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 am
I am looking forward to the 2020 draft. I usually sell my 1sts for players but decided to blow my team up in a 32-team double player copy league this year and now have 14 1sts and 2 2nds (and Tyreek Hill and George Kittle as my only players worth anything). Sadly a lot of my 1sts ended up being towards the end of the 1st round. I have picks 1, 4, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 16, 16, 17, 22. Obviously will need to trade some of the duplicate picks at the end of the 1st as I can't own two of the same player. My current rankings for 2020 are:
1. Jonathan Taylor
2. D'Andre Swift
3. Jerry Jeudy
4. Travis Etienne
5. CeeDee Lamb
6. Cam Akers
7. J.K. Dobbins
8. Henry Ruggs
9. Clyde Edwards-Helaire
10. Najee Harris
11. Laviska Shenault
12. Chuba Hubbard
13. Tee Higgins
14. Jalen Reagor
15. Zack Moss
16. Justin Jefferson
17. Tyler Johnson
18. DeVonta Smith
19. Anthony McFarland
20. Ke'Shawn Vaughn
21. Eno Benjamin
22. Tylan Wallace
23. Bryan Edwards
24. Kylin Hill
25. Antonio Gandy-Golden

Obviously there will be a lot of movement depending on who ends up declaring, the combine results, and landing spots, but it is fun to look at all the prospects now. It does seem like a very deep draft. Does anyone have an argument for a player who should be an obvious move-up or move-down to them?
String list and too early to say for sure on an glaring exclusions or rankings differences, but do have 2 minor points I would contend:

1. I would put Dobbins over Akers and I believe the majority would. The top 6 as of right now seems fairly locked in as Taylor, Swift, Jeudy, Lamb, Etienne, Dobbins in some order.

2. Tylan Wallace tore his ACL in November and it's looking highly likely he returns to school and won't be in this class at all, and if he does declare it probably significantly affects his NFL Draft stock.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lumps » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:52 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:42 am
chalorpas wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 am
I am looking forward to the 2020 draft. I usually sell my 1sts for players but decided to blow my team up in a 32-team double player copy league this year and now have 14 1sts and 2 2nds (and Tyreek Hill and George Kittle as my only players worth anything). Sadly a lot of my 1sts ended up being towards the end of the 1st round. I have picks 1, 4, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 16, 16, 17, 22. Obviously will need to trade some of the duplicate picks at the end of the 1st as I can't own two of the same player. My current rankings for 2020 are:
1. Jonathan Taylor
2. D'Andre Swift
3. Jerry Jeudy
4. Travis Etienne
5. CeeDee Lamb
6. Cam Akers
7. J.K. Dobbins
8. Henry Ruggs
9. Clyde Edwards-Helaire
10. Najee Harris
11. Laviska Shenault
12. Chuba Hubbard
13. Tee Higgins
14. Jalen Reagor
15. Zack Moss
16. Justin Jefferson
17. Tyler Johnson
18. DeVonta Smith
19. Anthony McFarland
20. Ke'Shawn Vaughn
21. Eno Benjamin
22. Tylan Wallace
23. Bryan Edwards
24. Kylin Hill
25. Antonio Gandy-Golden

Obviously there will be a lot of movement depending on who ends up declaring, the combine results, and landing spots, but it is fun to look at all the prospects now. It does seem like a very deep draft. Does anyone have an argument for a player who should be an obvious move-up or move-down to them?
String list and too early to say for sure on an glaring exclusions or rankings differences, but do have 2 minor points I would contend:

1. I would put Dobbins over Akers and I believe the majority would. The top 6 as of right now seems fairly locked in as Taylor, Swift, Jeudy, Lamb, Etienne, Dobbins in some order.

2. Tylan Wallace tore his ACL in November and it's looking highly likely he returns to school and won't be in this class at all, and if he does declare it probably significantly affects his NFL Draft stock.
I want to add that people are sleeping on Higgins... but I think I'm just confident in him jumping Harris and Hubbard. I think Hubbard is far too high here.
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:57 am

I think he has Tiggins about right, maybe could bump him up a few spots, but it's the right range. I like him too and own him in my Devy league.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lumps » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:22 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:57 am
I think he has Tiggins about right, maybe could bump him up a few spots, but it's the right range. I like him too and own him in my Devy league.
I deleted a few sentences when I was writing that and formatted it weirdly. What I meant to add was:

When I saw the # of where he was my knee jerk reaction was "that's too low." I tried moving him up in my mind and those 2 are as far as I could confidently go.

This draft is shaping up nicely if you can get Higgins at 13. If you are in SF or 2QB and/or IDP.... maaannnnn....
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lord_Varys » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:37 am

chalorpas wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 am
My current rankings for 2020 are:
1. Jonathan Taylor
2. D'Andre Swift
3. Jerry Jeudy
4. Travis Etienne
5. CeeDee Lamb
6. Cam Akers
7. J.K. Dobbins
8. Henry Ruggs
9. Clyde Edwards-Helaire
10. Najee Harris
11. Laviska Shenault
12. Chuba Hubbard
13. Tee Higgins
14. Jalen Reagor
15. Zack Moss
16. Justin Jefferson
17. Tyler Johnson
18. DeVonta Smith
19. Anthony McFarland
20. Ke'Shawn Vaughn
21. Eno Benjamin
22. Tylan Wallace
23. Bryan Edwards
24. Kylin Hill
25. Antonio Gandy-Golden
This is a fantastic list. I found myself nodding all the way down. Only changes I'd suggest are Kylin and Eno up, and Najee down.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lord_Varys » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:39 am

Lumps wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:36 am
I think the issue centers around people's (I'm not referring to anyone specifically here, just overall) lack of understanding of what "comp" means and what "ceiling" or "potential" are in this context.

Comp = comparable player. This isn't an exact replica by it's very definition. Even saying something like Bryce Love is Chris Johnson doesn't mean Love IS CJ. It's just that he is comparable.

The other variant here people REALLY meaning "ceiling" when saying "comp." Someone like Laviska Shenault's "ceiling" is through the roof. Laviska has the body of Fitz and better skills than Patterson. If he could learn to run routes (and have the work ethic) like Fitz, he is going to be a MONSTER. The reality of that, though, is that is highly unlikely. If I were to say his "comp" is "a much more athletic Fitz" that is disingenuous.
Factory of Sadness wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:37 pm


Yes, hyperbole is annoying, as is the mindless pre-draft chatter about David Montgomery having the balance of LeVeon Bell, the thighs of Thanos and the digestive organs of a python. Making a comparison between a prospect and a pro though is a sensible thing to do and shouldn't always trigger the same circle-jerk of self-congratulatory, self-appointed experts making these predictable complaints.
This. People get excited and have rose-colored glasses (beer goggles? :lol: ) and/or are too fresh to dynasty and think everyone is a stud. They haven't been crushed like us yet. (see sig) They haven't drafted Justin Hunter, Treadwell, and Tavon Austin. They haven't been burned by Josh Gordon since 2014.

Speaking of:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/3 ... modern-era
Good post. I think it comes down to semantics. "Comp = comparable player" is a good callout. Versus I can compare one person's game to another person's, even if I'm not calling them a comparable player. People don't read critically or type thoughtfully sometimes.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:48 am

All I know is that you want to pick at 1.01, cuz your chances of getting a stud are FAR higher than if you pick elsewhere. That's not to say studs don't come from other picks, just the chance is way higher with 1.01 than any other Individual pick.

And FYI Tuas floor is Russ Wilson and his ceiling is Russ Wilson, a player he not only compare to but exceeds in every category but for durability.

Lol

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby nathanq42 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:19 am

My comments comparing Dobbins to Kamara were solely stylistic, neither are burners, but are so dynamic and hard to bring down that they have a lot of explosive plays anyways. Could he be the next Kamara? Not likely, but not many RBs are as good as Kamara. Does seeing him remind me of Kamara? Certaily.
12 Team 20 man roster 4 reserve slots 1 ppr .2 points per carry
Garbage
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RB Rashaad Penny, Austin Ekeler, Royce Freeman, Jerrick McKinnon, Justice Hill
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lumps » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:29 pm

Nanananananana wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:22 am
Nanananananana wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:19 am
Forza_Azzurri wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:37 am


I’m planting my flag ... Etienne will be the #2 RB in 2020 draft behind Swift (I give Swift the nod over Etienne only because of his receiving abilities).

Per PFF:

I see it differently, I see a guy getting tons of yards without being touched, ala Darell Henderson last year. I think Etienne will be a mock draft/fantasy darling but will go surprisingly late in the NFL draft.

I wanted to bring back the "Etienne doesn't REALLY break tackles" argument. I even queued it up for you guys:

https://youtu.be/Bg_if2bD5EQ?t=128
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby ravn88 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:54 pm

Lumps wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:29 pm
Nanananananana wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:22 am
Nanananananana wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:19 am
I see it differently, I see a guy getting tons of yards without being touched, ala Darell Henderson last year. I think Etienne will be a mock draft/fantasy darling but will go surprisingly late in the NFL draft.

I wanted to bring back the "Etienne doesn't REALLY break tackles" argument. I even queued it up for you guys:

https://youtu.be/Bg_if2bD5EQ?t=128
Those Defensiv players are rubish.
He does have Some Really great cuts, and some gaines Where you are thinking how did he that.

But most of it is Because the dont tackle.
Team 1 : 1QB 2RB 3 WR 1TE 1Flex 1K 1TM 2 IR 12 Keepers

QB: Carson Wentz, P. Mahomes
RB: M. Gordon, M. Ingram, J. Mixon, A. Jones & Jamaal W
WR: D. Hopkins, J. Jones K. Allen, M. Jones, J Crowder, Humpries & Moncrief
TE: E. Engram, Trey Burton, V Davis & J. Doyle

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RB: Barkley Zeke K. Hunt McCoy Penny D. Williams & Ito
WR: M. Thomas Cooper Godwin Juju J. Washington Renfrow & Zay
TE: Engram OJ Howard Waller & Everett
DEF: Pats Jags & Browns

Team 3: 1QB 1SF 2RB 2WR 1TE 1FLEX DEF K

QB: Wilson Wentz Tannehill Teddy Haskins
RB: CMC Zeke Miles AP Gaskins
WR: Evans Adams Landry Metcalf Meyers
TE: Engram Ebron Herndon
DEF: Tampa

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby hoos89 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:56 pm

Did you just use a single run against the 118th ranked GT rush defense to prove a point? Queue up his high school tape while you're at it.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby MrUbuto » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:48 pm

Jonathon taylor just won the best runningbacks in college award. Only him McFadden and ricky William's have won 2 in a row. That's decent company. If he goes first round he's gotta be the 1.1
QB - DWatson(HOU)Winston(TB)Finely(DEN)
RB - TGurley(LAR)DJohnson(ARI)NChubb(CLE)DHenry(TEN)
WR - ODB(NYG)AJ Green(CIN)ACooper (DAL)CDavis(TEN)
TE - HHenry(SD)DGoeddart(PHI)
K - Zurlien(LAR)Badgley(LAC)
Def - JAGS DET
[rookie] NHarry(NE)MBrown(BAL)Haskins(WAS)

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 - 2020's
Rosters must always be 3qbs 4wrs 4rbs 2tes 2kickers 2dst and protected players dont take up a roster spot, but are only for rookie/2nd year players that were drafted

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lumps » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:02 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:56 pm
Did you just use a single run against the 118th ranked GT rush defense to prove a point? Queue up his high school tape while you're at it.
Does any of that matter when a player has him dead to rights? Isn't that video like 7 1/2 minutes long? I swear some of you just want to argue for arguments sake. bleep.
Last edited by Lumps on Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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