More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Ice » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:14 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm
AussieMate wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 pm
Man it still just feels like excuses for why he never really produced in college, he runs every route, he jumps, he's fast, he's agile, he's elite, but Smith managed to hit the general threshold and Ruggs never did.
Did his QB just not like him?
Did the coach not like him?
Was he really bad at paper scissors rock?
That's exactly what it is. Ruggs production is terrible. I said it a few months ago he reminds me of DHB. Similar type of production. DHB a bit better speed score and Ruggs a bit better burst score. And before anyone says it I know they aren't similar height & weight.
Wow, what a Comp......Your right they aren't similar its just that you left off the ability to run routes and catch. :wtf:

Whatever your drinking...Share please.

Ruggs has huge hands and can actually catch the football. 1 Drop in college. BTW, where a WR lines up in college matters. What was different about Bama's QB?
The clock is running and there are no timeouts

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Johnny B. Goode » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:18 pm

Ruggs is very easily off my draft list
12 team PPR
QB: Murray, Lock, Stidham, Hurts
RB: Barkley, Zeke, Mixon, J. Taylor (R), Dobbins (R), Henderson, R. Anderson, Dallas, T.Williams
WR: T. Hill, Godwin, Kupp, Sutton, Diggs, Gallup, P. Williams, Isabella, JJAW, S Miller, Begelton, Hodgins
TE: Engram, Hockenson, I Thomas, Warring, Trautman
K: Tucker
TD: PIT
Picks: 2021 1, 2021 2, 2022 1, 2022 2, 2022 3

12 team PPR
QB: Darnold, Bridgewater, Stidham (TX)
RB: Sanders, Hunt, Jackson, Ballage, Murray, Samuels, B Hill, Henderson (TX), Ozigbo (TX), Gaskin (TX)
WR: Diggs, Gallup, Kupp, Sutton, Lazard, Isabella (TX), P. Williams (TX), JJAW (TX), Doss (TX), S. Miller (TX)
TE: Rudolph, Graham, Sternberger (TX)
K:
DEF: LAR
Picks: 1.1, 1.3, 2.4, 5.7, 2021 1, 2021 1, 2021 2, 2021 2, 2021 4, 2021 5

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Ice » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:27 pm

Johnny B. Goode wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:18 pm
Ruggs is very easily off my draft list
My guess is you are going to regret how much you will have to pay for this future stud downstream. Ruggs has the highest upside in this draft. :idea:
The clock is running and there are no timeouts

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Johnny B. Goode » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:30 pm

Ice wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:27 pm
Johnny B. Goode wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:18 pm
Ruggs is very easily off my draft list
My guess is you are going to regret how much you will have to pay for this future stud downstream. Ruggs has the highest upside in this draft. :idea:
fools gold mate. his chances for success are so small. to each their own
12 team PPR
QB: Murray, Lock, Stidham, Hurts
RB: Barkley, Zeke, Mixon, J. Taylor (R), Dobbins (R), Henderson, R. Anderson, Dallas, T.Williams
WR: T. Hill, Godwin, Kupp, Sutton, Diggs, Gallup, P. Williams, Isabella, JJAW, S Miller, Begelton, Hodgins
TE: Engram, Hockenson, I Thomas, Warring, Trautman
K: Tucker
TD: PIT
Picks: 2021 1, 2021 2, 2022 1, 2022 2, 2022 3

12 team PPR
QB: Darnold, Bridgewater, Stidham (TX)
RB: Sanders, Hunt, Jackson, Ballage, Murray, Samuels, B Hill, Henderson (TX), Ozigbo (TX), Gaskin (TX)
WR: Diggs, Gallup, Kupp, Sutton, Lazard, Isabella (TX), P. Williams (TX), JJAW (TX), Doss (TX), S. Miller (TX)
TE: Rudolph, Graham, Sternberger (TX)
K:
DEF: LAR
Picks: 1.1, 1.3, 2.4, 5.7, 2021 1, 2021 1, 2021 2, 2021 2, 2021 4, 2021 5

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby DJB » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:38 pm

cantguardjake wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:22 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am


Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Exactly this, why people still throw up Smith as a “first round” talent is beyond me. If he had a first or even second round grade he declares this year. He’s got plenty to work on.
We can't assume Smith didn't declare because he didn't like his "draft grade".

Look at Etienne. He returned to try and win another National Championship

Also I doubt the kid is dumb. He knows it's a deep WR draft and going back to Bama where he will likely be the Alpha with Jeudy and Ruggs gone is only going to increase his stock and the $$$ he makes.
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby cantguardjake » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:57 pm

That’s great data and backs up what I’ve personally felt are the key routes to focus on when evaluating a wide receiver in college being slants, hitches and outs, the reason being these are the routes that are most likely to face tighter NFL style coverage (ie outs and slants require the ability to get open either off the line of scrimmage or within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, with hitches showing the ability to separate stride for stride with a corner down the outside).

Being able to get open on a go route with a release is also important, but the productivity is almost entirely reliant on good QB play given it is a deep route so the actual production can be misleading, which makes it difficult to evaluate because what someone sees as a good release is entirely subjective. This is also true to an extent for slants, hitches and outs though as the technique employed to get open is also whats important, not the actual production which once again is entirely subjective - which is why it’s so hard to evaluate wide receivers and even the professionals miss at a pretty high rate in the early rounds of the NFL - but the subjectivity, IMO, is what makes it enjoyable to watch film.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby cantguardjake » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:03 pm

DJB wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:38 pm
cantguardjake wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:22 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm


No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Exactly this, why people still throw up Smith as a “first round” talent is beyond me. If he had a first or even second round grade he declares this year. He’s got plenty to work on.
We can't assume Smith didn't declare because he didn't like his "draft grade".

Look at Etienne. He returned to try and win another National Championship

Also I doubt the kid is dumb. He knows it's a deep WR draft and going back to Bama where he will likely be the Alpha with Jeudy and Ruggs gone is only going to increase his stock and the $$$ he makes.
That’s the thing though, increase his stock from what? Apparently he’s already a first rounder as it is, and he’d still be competing with another first rounder in Waddle (allegedly).

Etienne is about the only player I genuinely believe went back for a chance at a championship, having read a lot about his character and the fact that Lawrence is still their QB (it might be bias too as he was my favourite back in the class, but from everything I read he still had second to early third round grades from what was reported which seems about right, compared to types like Kylin Hill and Najee who would have had 4th round grades and chose to go back to school).

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby cantguardjake » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:11 pm

Ice wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:14 pm
djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm
AussieMate wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 pm
Man it still just feels like excuses for why he never really produced in college, he runs every route, he jumps, he's fast, he's agile, he's elite, but Smith managed to hit the general threshold and Ruggs never did.
Did his QB just not like him?
Did the coach not like him?
Was he really bad at paper scissors rock?
That's exactly what it is. Ruggs production is terrible. I said it a few months ago he reminds me of DHB. Similar type of production. DHB a bit better speed score and Ruggs a bit better burst score. And before anyone says it I know they aren't similar height & weight.
Wow, what a Comp......Your right they aren't similar its just that you left off the ability to run routes and catch. :wtf:

Whatever your drinking...Share please.

Ruggs has huge hands and can actually catch the football. 1 Drop in college. BTW, where a WR lines up in college matters. What was different about Bama's QB?
Yes, it does. You do realise Ruggs lined up almost exclusively outside on the right side of the formation? He wasn’t versatile with his alignment at all. Plenty of wide receivers produce on the left side of the field with a right handed quarterback, what’s alarming is that he didn’t line up anywhere but there - big learning curve coming.
Last edited by cantguardjake on Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:13 pm

Ice wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:14 pm
djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm
AussieMate wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 pm
Man it still just feels like excuses for why he never really produced in college, he runs every route, he jumps, he's fast, he's agile, he's elite, but Smith managed to hit the general threshold and Ruggs never did.
Did his QB just not like him?
Did the coach not like him?
Was he really bad at paper scissors rock?
That's exactly what it is. Ruggs production is terrible. I said it a few months ago he reminds me of DHB. Similar type of production. DHB a bit better speed score and Ruggs a bit better burst score. And before anyone says it I know they aren't similar height & weight.
Wow, what a Comp......Your right they aren't similar its just that you left off the ability to run routes and catch. :wtf:

Whatever your drinking...Share please.

Ruggs has huge hands and can actually catch the football. 1 Drop in college. BTW, where a WR lines up in college matters. What was different about Bama's QB?
Lol I had a whole post written up earlier about how nothing about DHB comped well... Everything from Target share, measurables, and where and who they played with. Figured I'd just keep to myself and let the Ruggs hate pour out. I'll gladly move back up and snag him in the 2nd if he's there
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:49 pm

You know you struck a nerve when people start picking apart something you didn't say. I said Ruggs REMINDS me of DHB. As in fast athletic WR with terrible production in college. Just like when Mahomes came out I said I saw a bit of Favre in him. Does that mean I was comping Mahomes to Favre? No, but hey pick apart something I didn't say to make yourselves feel better. Note this if Ruggs does succeed as you believe he will, congrats to you for believing, but he will also be a complete outlier based on his production profile. Also if he's drafted as high as you guys and most mocks have him he's not lasting until the 2nd. You'll need to take him high to mid first. At that range I prefer to play the odds rather than swing for the fences on an outlier.


And since I'm kicking hornet's nests today CEH is Gio Bernard 2.0. I'll take my lumps if either of these blow up in my face. Unlike some that say it was just a joke a year later.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:28 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:49 pm
I'll take my lumps if either of these blow up in my face. Unlike some that say it was just a joke a year later.
In case anyone missed it, dems fightin' words right there.

:D

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Jigga94 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:40 am

So saying someone looks like and reminds you of someone else, is not comparing them?
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby djeternal2 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:23 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:40 am
So saying someone looks like and reminds you of someone else, is not comparing them?
You've never looked at a player and said "hmm that reminds me of xyz player" but also saw other things about said player that didn't remind you of that player? People talked about Kamara's shiftiness during and after his rookie year similar to Barry Sanders. Does that mean Kamara was being comp'd to Barry? Obviously not as Barry wasn't as prolific a pass catching back but more a shifty pure runner than Kamara is. Just because someone sees some similarities between two players doesn't mean they see everything similar which were the response posts I got in regards to Ruggs. All of a sudden hand size and target share and who they played with are being talked about when I said nothing about those. So if you want to argue about everything I didn't say go right ahead. No one's stopping you.

BTW if Ruggs is so awesome and talked about as the first WR being taken why was he the third or 4th best WR on his team in regards to production? Waddle outproduced him as a Freshman in 18 vs Ruggs as a Sophomore. Hell Irv Smith nearly matched his production that year as well. A flippin TE! Then yeah fast forward to 2019 and Smith & Jeudy are well ahead of Ruggs. If he's soooo talented why didn't the cream rise to the top? Why was he never the first or second option in the offense? Like I said beat out by a Frosh in 18 (Waddle) and basically equal to a TE (Irv Smith) that same year. The TE was gone in 19 so Ruggs saw a few more targets. Sadly it actually reduced his catches from 46 to 40 and basically even on yardage (741 to 746).

You know what forget everything I posted. Draft Ruggs high that'll allow other actual talents to fall to me later in round 1.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Jigga94 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:42 am

djeternal2 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:23 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:40 am
So saying someone looks like and reminds you of someone else, is not comparing them?
You've never looked at a player and said "hmm that reminds me of xyz player" but also saw other things about said player that didn't remind you of that player? People talked about Kamara's shiftiness during and after his rookie year similar to Barry Sanders. Does that mean Kamara was being comp'd to Barry? Obviously not as Barry wasn't as prolific a pass catching back but more a shifty pure runner than Kamara is. Just because someone sees some similarities between two players doesn't mean they see everything similar which were the response posts I got in regards to Ruggs. All of a sudden hand size and target share and who they played with are being talked about when I said nothing about those. So if you want to argue about everything I didn't say go right ahead. No one's stopping you.

BTW if Ruggs is so awesome and talked about as the first WR being taken why was he the third or 4th best WR on his team in regards to production? Waddle outproduced him as a Freshman in 18 vs Ruggs as a Sophomore. Hell Irv Smith nearly matched his production that year as well. A flippin TE! Then yeah fast forward to 2019 and Smith & Jeudy are well ahead of Ruggs. If he's soooo talented why didn't the cream rise to the top? Why was he never the first or second option in the offense? Like I said beat out by a Frosh in 18 (Waddle) and basically equal to a TE (Irv Smith) that same year. The TE was gone in 19 so Ruggs saw a few more targets. Sadly it actually reduced his catches from 46 to 40 and basically even on yardage (741 to 746).

You know what forget everything I posted. Draft Ruggs high that'll allow other actual talents to fall to me later in round 1.
So you are comparing them... And we are mentioning why we don't see them as alike. So what's the issue here? I never said he was the #1 WR on the board or that his production was good. I also mentioned snagging him late 1st or 2nd and you are staying that he's going to go early to mid 1st, therefore I likely won't be drafting him either. "So if you want to argue about everything I didn't say go right ahead. No one's stopping you."

BTW, where would you draft him? 2nd? Late 2nd? 3rd? Never?
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:57 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0dEWSSlL3s

Good in depth look on Burrow by Brett Kollmann.
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