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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:03 am
by Kmani6
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:34 pm
esloan35 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:36 pm
Orenthal Shames wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:44 pm
It's not out of the question. 2019 had:
-Top 10 QB in Murray
-A RB1 in Jacobs prior to injury
-Top 15 RB in Sanders
-Multiple WRs inside the top 36 as rookies in AJB, Terry, DK & Deebo
-Plenty of others flashed throughout the season like Hollywood, Singletary, Montgomery, Preston Williams, etc.
Will be interesting to see but I think all the top picks last year would be behind this years top 3 RBS, Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Higgins, would of pushed all of last years picks down IMO. Akers, Reagor, CEH, JJ are in that wheelhouse. The TEs class is weak I think. Was really hoping for Entienne and Hubbard. Hubbard I could see staying but Entienne was a gut punch for sure.
Obviously an impossible call, to use hindsight, but: Jacobs won OROY, and any of the rookies would be lucky to rush for what he did this year. Jacobs was is a different situation at Bama. Daniel Jeremiah was on him real early, saying this guy is legit. Deebo and DK had injury histories, but both remained healthy. The WR class last year was spoken about as the best since 2014, so it's not that big a surprise. The fact Jacobs and Sanders hit really isn't either. Based on what I saw from Jacobs vs Lamb on my amateur tape watching skills, and regardless of where Lamb goes, I wouldn't bat an eye at anybody taking Jacobs over Lamb, based on what I saw, assuming both are first rounde picks. I don't think what Lamb did in that conference is all that special, and I would take him at a certain point, but the second Jacobs went in the first to the Raiders, it verified everything from what I saw, and I knew he would be used as a true lead back. His "tape" although not a very long catalogue, showed traits that translated to the NFL at the position so easily.
We'll never know, I don't think the entire NFL would view Jacobs skill set behind Ruggs or Higgins, for instance. Jacobs was ranked very highly in the scouting community, main stream and otherwise, despite the lack of production. The fact he won OROY and produced at such a high level is a credit to them. There were teams hoping he posted a slow 40 to push him down some boards, and Gil Brandt said his pro day was "exceptional", despite the lack of metrics to say Jacobs was good (BTW, Brandt also predicted no WR in the top 20 for the 2019 draft in October 2018). I find it hard to believe certain teams would have taken a guy like Ruggs, for instance, over Jacobs, or that Ruggs will be worth what Jacobs is in the Dynasty community after his rookie year.
I like Jacobs a lot but there’s always a rookie RB that’s expected to put up his numbers if not better... last 5 years: Gurley, zeke, LF (+ mixon, cook, kamara, CMC etc), Saquon, and Jacobs. Honestly Jacobs is definitely ranked the lowest... To say that the RB’s would be lucky to play like Jacobs is interesting because one would think in a good class like this that they are expected to be better especially after showing so much college dominance. JT for example has put up 2000 yards 3 years in a row in college, and just topped with 26 TDs... If anything what’s interesting is that Jacobs could still hold his own without heavy college production.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:16 am
by Kmani6
Jigga94 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:42 am
Orenthal Shames wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:44 pm
esloan35 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:24 pm
Come on now...
It's not out of the question. 2019 had:
-Top 10 QB in Murray
-A RB1 in Jacobs prior to injury
-Top 15 RB in Sanders
-Multiple WRs inside the top 36 as rookies in AJB, Terry, DK & Deebo
-Plenty of others flashed throughout the season like Hollywood, Singletary, Montgomery, Preston Williams, etc.
Not out of the question at all. Blows my mind that people can see the future for all these kids before they've even been drafted... I mean, the 2020 class was crowned before the 2019 class had even stepped on the field. Pretty much everyone overlooked the last class back then but I don't know how you're still overlooking it now with the names mentioned above.
As far as 2020, yeah the prospects look pretty good, but it is trending downwards with some of the guys returning to school. As of right now to me it looks like the top 3 will be RB (similar to 2019 with Jacobs, Sanders, Montgomery) and then some WR prospects at the top that all have question marks. Ultimately some of those turned out pretty well for 2019 and I have a hard time seeing 2020s WR class being stronger. Jeudy is the better prospect in either class, but I'd take AJB in a second over him right now. Not fair given that Jeudy hasn't even been drafted yet, but that's my point.
What a lot of people are missing is that many of us had said that the 2019 class was really deep in talent, the tough part was that it would be difficult to identify who would take that next step and so picks weren’t worth as much, which still holds today. So we assumed the hit rate would’ve been lower than a normal 1st, which could still be true. The first round had Henderson, Montgomery, Campbell, and Harry going. A lot of the guys that ended up breaking out were drafted 30+, like slayton, Preston Williams, DJ, and Mclaurin, so as a pick owner the chances those guys were taken in the first or 2nd round was probably really small...
On the other hand, and especially before a lot of these players began to return, we could see absolute studs everywhere in terms of college prospects in the 2020 class. We will never be able to say definitively whether the skills will translate to the NFL prior to seeing these guys play real games, but we can try to maximize those chances on hitting based on the talent pool for any given year.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:33 am
by esloan35
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:34 pm
esloan35 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:36 pm
Orenthal Shames wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:44 pm
It's not out of the question. 2019 had:
-Top 10 QB in Murray
-A RB1 in Jacobs prior to injury
-Top 15 RB in Sanders
-Multiple WRs inside the top 36 as rookies in AJB, Terry, DK & Deebo
-Plenty of others flashed throughout the season like Hollywood, Singletary, Montgomery, Preston Williams, etc.
Will be interesting to see but I think all the top picks last year would be behind this years top 3 RBS, Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Higgins, would of pushed all of last years picks down IMO. Akers, Reagor, CEH, JJ are in that wheelhouse. The TEs class is weak I think. Was really hoping for Entienne and Hubbard. Hubbard I could see staying but Entienne was a gut punch for sure.
Obviously an impossible call, to use hindsight, but: Jacobs won OROY, and any of the rookies would be lucky to rush for what he did this year. Jacobs was is a different situation at Bama. Daniel Jeremiah was on him real early, saying this guy is legit. Deebo and DK had injury histories, but both remained healthy. The WR class last year was spoken about as the best since 2014, so it's not that big a surprise. The fact Jacobs and Sanders hit really isn't either. Based on what I saw from Jacobs vs Lamb on my amateur tape watching skills, and regardless of where Lamb goes, I wouldn't bat an eye at anybody taking Jacobs over Lamb, based on what I saw, assuming both are first rounde picks. I don't think what Lamb did in that conference is all that special, and I would take him at a certain point, but the second Jacobs went in the first to the Raiders, it verified everything from what I saw, and I knew he would be used as a true lead back. His "tape" although not a very long catalogue, showed traits that translated to the NFL at the position so easily.
We'll never know, I don't think the entire NFL would view Jacobs skill set behind Ruggs or Higgins, for instance. Jacobs was ranked very highly in the scouting community, main stream and otherwise, despite the lack of production. The fact he won OROY and produced at such a high level is a credit to them. There were teams hoping he posted a slow 40 to push him down some boards, and Gil Brandt said his pro day was "exceptional", despite the lack of metrics to say Jacobs was good (BTW, Brandt also predicted no WR in the top 20 for the 2019 draft in October 2018). I find it hard to believe certain teams would have taken a guy like Ruggs, for instance, over Jacobs, or that Ruggs will be worth what Jacobs is in the Dynasty community after his rookie year.
I hear you, RBS at a high level are coveted no doubt. I think Jacobs is a nice player and hit a great situation with the Raiders. All these guys are draft dependent and unknown until we talk about them this time next year. I guess when you look at tape and skill sets of all these players to say Hubbard and Entienne leaving have ruined the quality of the draft is a bit reckless IMO. There are what appears to be superior talent in this group and thus can be potentially expected to be a great class. I do think Jacobs would be in the top 5 backs this year with these guys but depending on where they are drafted the back end of the top 3 for me and would of put him behind Entienne if he came out at the same time. This theard has had legs and one of the better groups for dialogue I have seen with DLF. Cheers and enjoy this part of the off season!
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:50 am
by Needalife
TE Thaddeus Moss declares. Definitely flashed a lot late down the stretch. Has the pedigree. I mean, no way Randy Moss’ kid fails, right? He might be a nice early 3rd round rookie flyer.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:15 am
by bjd5211
Needalife wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:50 am
TE Thaddeus Moss declares. Definitely flashed a lot late down the stretch. Has the pedigree. I mean, no way Randy Moss’ kid fails, right? He might be a nice early 3rd round rookie flyer.
It's usually the opposite with kids of HOF players unfortunately. That is a lot of unfair comparison a lot of these kids have to carry, and most them don't inherit the complete freak athleticism a lot of their fathers had, or the unrelenting drive to be great. Off the top of my head the only sons of HOF'ers I can think of that went on to be excellent players in the pros are the Longs (Chris and Kyle) sons of Howie Long, and neither of them will be getting HOF consideration. I am sure there are other examples slipping my mind and I'm certainly not saying he can't be a great player, just be sure to evaluate him like any other player and not let the "Randy Moss' son" hype cloud your evaluation or expectations. Randy Moss is/was the true definition of the "Generational Talent" tag that we like to throw around a lot, and is probably the single most gifted WR to ever play the game. There will be those out there who expect Thaddeus to be the "Randy Moss of TEs", which is extremely unfair and unrealistic, creating a lot of disappointment and hate for the player.
We shall see how he does, and I think he can be a good NFL player, but it's unlikely he'll be one of the elite TEs in the league at some point.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:07 am
by esloan35
bjd5211 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:15 am
Needalife wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:50 am
TE Thaddeus Moss declares. Definitely flashed a lot late down the stretch. Has the pedigree. I mean, no way Randy Moss’ kid fails, right? He might be a nice early 3rd round rookie flyer.
It's usually the opposite with kids of HOF players unfortunately. That is a lot of unfair comparison a lot of these kids have to carry, and most them don't inherit the complete freak athleticism a lot of their fathers had, or the unrelenting drive to be great. Off the top of my head the only sons of HOF'ers I can think of that went on to be excellent players in the pros are the Longs (Chris and Kyle) sons of Howie Long, and neither of them will be getting HOF consideration. I am sure there are other examples slipping my mind and I'm certainly not saying he can't be a great player, just be sure to evaluate him like any other player and not let the "Randy Moss' son" hype cloud your evaluation or expectations. Randy Moss is/was the true definition of the "Generational Talent" tag that we like to throw around a lot, and is probably the single most gifted WR to ever play the game. There will be those out there who expect Thaddeus to be the "Randy Moss of TEs", which is extremely unfair and unrealistic, creating a lot of disappointment and hate for the player.
We shall see how he does, and I think he can be a good NFL player, but it's unlikely he'll be one of the elite TEs in the league at some point.
This kid is just slow. He clearly had a advantage by playing on a stacked team imo. His combine will be telling. He is a 4th round fantasy football swag at this point..
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:26 pm
by alewilliam789
Did Tyler Johnson play in the 2020 Shrine Bowl? Or was he hurt?
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 pm
by FantasyFreak
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Did Tyler Johnson play in the 2020 Shrine Bowl? Or was he hurt?
He wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl, and he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl to train for the combine, I believe. I don't think he's going to get drafted very early.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:11 pm
by alewilliam789
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 pm
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Did Tyler Johnson play in the 2020 Shrine Bowl? Or was he hurt?
He wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl, and he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl to train for the combine, I believe. I don't think he's going to get drafted very early.
Wow what an idiot. If he dominates Big Ten competition like he did in college, then why not roast these inferior secondaries in this game? He must have been quite worried about his performance if he completely pulled out. Freaking Deandre Overton played decently. He should have been invited to the Senior Bowl over some of that bunch of no-names
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 pm
by alewilliam789
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 pm
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Did Tyler Johnson play in the 2020 Shrine Bowl? Or was he hurt?
He wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl, and he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl to train for the combine, I believe. I don't think he's going to get drafted very early.
Wow what an idiot. If he dominates Big Ten competition like he did in college, then why not roast these inferior secondaries in this game? He must have been quite worried about his performance if he completely pulled out. Freaking Deandre Overton played decently. He should have been invited to the Senior Bowl over some of that bunch of no-names tho
Edit:
Having said that the QB play in these games usually isn’t very good so may have played a part?
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
by nathanq42
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 pm
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Did Tyler Johnson play in the 2020 Shrine Bowl? Or was he hurt?
He wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl, and he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl to train for the combine, I believe. I don't think he's going to get drafted very early.
Wow what an idiot. If he dominates Big Ten competition like he did in college, then why not roast these inferior secondaries in this game? He must have been quite worried about his performance if he completely pulled out. Freaking Deandre Overton played decently. He should have been invited to the Senior Bowl over some of that bunch of no-names tho
Edit:
Having said that the QB play in these games usually isn’t very good so may have played a part?
Why ball out vs bums and risk the injury? Anything he does well in the game will be discounted because of compensation, so it won't help his draft stock much and will put him in harm's way.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:53 pm
by alewilliam789
nathanq42 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 pm
He wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl, and he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl to train for the combine, I believe. I don't think he's going to get drafted very early.
Wow what an idiot. If he dominates Big Ten competition like he did in college, then why not roast these inferior secondaries in this game? He must have been quite worried about his performance if he completely pulled out. Freaking Deandre Overton played decently. He should have been invited to the Senior Bowl over some of that bunch of no-names tho
Edit:
Having said that the QB play in these games usually isn’t very good so may have played a part?
Why ball out vs bums and risk the injury? Anything he does well in the game will be discounted because of compensation, so it won't help his draft stock much and will put him in harm's way.
Because he could ball out against bums and get invited to the Senior Bowl? He could have drastically increased his stock by getting pulled up to the Senior Bowl/dominating the Shrine Bowl because right now I’m not hearing great things about him amongst the scouts I read.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:06 pm
by remedy29
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:53 pm
nathanq42 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
alewilliam789 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 pm
Wow what an idiot. If he dominates Big Ten competition like he did in college, then why not roast these inferior secondaries in this game? He must have been quite worried about his performance if he completely pulled out. Freaking Deandre Overton played decently. He should have been invited to the Senior Bowl over some of that bunch of no-names tho
Edit:
Having said that the QB play in these games usually isn’t very good so may have played a part?
Why ball out vs bums and risk the injury? Anything he does well in the game will be discounted because of compensation, so it won't help his draft stock much and will put him in harm's way.
Because he could ball out against bums and get invited to the Senior Bowl? He could have drastically increased his stock by getting pulled up to the Senior Bowl/dominating the Shrine Bowl because right now I’m not hearing great things about him amongst the scouts I read.
Is this true? Players from the Shrine game can be invited to the Senior Bowl?
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:15 pm
by Forza_Azzurri
I’ll probably get burned by this ... but after watching Deebo become a match-up nightmare over the last two months, I’m moving Shenault up my board ... I’d put him at 4 now behind Jeudy, Lamb & Ruggs.
Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:40 pm
by AussieMate
Forza_Azzurri wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:15 pm
I’ll probably get burned by this ... but after watching Deebo become a match-up nightmare over the last two months, I’m moving Shenault up my board ... I’d put him at 4 now behind Jeudy, Lamb & Ruggs.
Shhhhhh