More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:47 am

I’m getting the opposite impression here. The excuse given for Ruggs’ poor production was that Alabama only utilized him as a deep threat. If he can run every route well, then why didn’t he produce more?
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am

OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:47 am
I’m getting the opposite impression here. The excuse given for Ruggs’ poor production was that Alabama only utilized him as a deep threat. If he can run every route well, then why didn’t he produce more?
Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Kmani6 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am

This debunks the Henry Ruggs isn’t a route runner debate, as he is one of the most diverse route runners in CB over the past two years (Albright).

The excuse given for Ruggs poor production is playing with 2 other R1 talent WR’s. If anyone actually said that Ruggs was only utilized as a deep threat then they probably watched zero Bama games.
Dynasty Team 1:

10 Man, Full PPR, .2 PPC, Double Flex

QB: Dak Prescott
RB: Joe Mixon, Nick Chubb, Dalvin Cook
WR: Devante Adams, Mike Evans, OBJ , Keenan Allen, Terry Mclaurin, Auden Tate, C. Samuel, D. Pettis, Zach Pascal, D. Johnson, A. Miller
TE: Travis Kelce,George Kittle, Jonnu Smith

2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05
2021 Picks: 1st, 3rd

Dynasty Team 2:

16 Team, SuperFlex, PPR, .25 PPC

QB: Rodgers, Big Ben, Winston, Trubisky,
RB: Cook, Mixon,Ingram, Murray, Coleman, Hyde, Miller, Duke Johnson
WR: Golladay,A.J. Green, Landry, Shepard, Sanders, Tate, Westbrook, Fitzgerald
TE: Engram, Rudolph, Doyle

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:10 am

Kmani6 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am
This debunks the Henry Ruggs isn’t a route runner debate, as he is one of the most diverse route runners in CB over the past two years (Albright).

The excuse given for Ruggs poor production is playing with 3 other R1 talent WR’s*. If anyone actually said that Ruggs was only utilized as a deep threat then they probably watched zero Bama games.
Waddle is excellent too and will be in Round 1 conversation next year. He was just a true Sophomore this year so he didn't quite get the attention Jeudy/Ruggs/Smith did because he wasn't draft eligible, but he was the star of the Iron Bowl and a fairly significant part of the passing game most of the year too.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:14 am

Kmani6 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am
This debunks the Henry Ruggs isn’t a route runner debate, as he is one of the most diverse route runners in CB over the past two years (Albright).

The excuse given for Ruggs poor production is playing with 2 other R1 talent WR’s. If anyone actually said that Ruggs was only utilized as a deep threat then they probably watched zero Bama games.
Plus he can jump out of the gym. I've got a big A+ on his athleticism grade and at least confident in that much with him. The route tree numbers are great as well, thanks Cameron. He's definitely an interesting player for me that I might take over a "safer player" late 1st
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:47 am
I’m getting the opposite impression here. The excuse given for Ruggs’ poor production was that Alabama only utilized him as a deep threat. If he can run every route well, then why didn’t he produce more?
Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.
Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:53 am

Kmani6 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am
This debunks the Henry Ruggs isn’t a route runner debate, as he is one of the most diverse route runners in CB over the past two years (Albright).

The excuse given for Ruggs poor production is playing with 2 other R1 talent WR’s. If anyone actually said that Ruggs was only utilized as a deep threat then they probably watched zero Bama games.
I think some only say that because most of his receiving yards came on go routes.

Either way, when you watch him, he clearly has the tools to be a very diverse WR. If he can polish his releases, then he would be a problem. I think that's one of the big things separating him from someone like Jeudy. Jeudy isn't as fast straight line, but he gets great releases off the line and plays faster than his speed.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:15 pm

I think a lot of rookies will do poorly this year compared to last. Not due to talent, but the lack of ability to have off season training with the teams and offenses. Hearing training camp will start on time if they are lucky. Not expecting most players, especially WR's who need to develop rapport with the QB to have very good years.
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer/Runner Up

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Crowder, Agholor, Sanu, , D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Clay

Taxi: Mims, Asiasi

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby AussieMate » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 pm

Man it still just feels like excuses for why he never really produced in college, he runs every route, he jumps, he's fast, he's agile, he's elite, but Smith managed to hit the general threshold and Ruggs never did.
Did his QB just not like him?
Did the coach not like him?
Was he really bad at paper scissors rock?

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:47 am
I’m getting the opposite impression here. The excuse given for Ruggs’ poor production was that Alabama only utilized him as a deep threat. If he can run every route well, then why didn’t he produce more?
Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.
Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer/Runner Up

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Crowder, Agholor, Sanu, , D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Clay

Taxi: Mims, Asiasi

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:31 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am


Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.
Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Ruggs is going in the 1st round, so he was a 1st round caliber WR.

Smith was very much in the discussion this year but decided to go back to school to solidify that position, and Waddle will be in 1st round discussions next year which also makes him a 1st round caliber player.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm

AussieMate wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 pm
Man it still just feels like excuses for why he never really produced in college, he runs every route, he jumps, he's fast, he's agile, he's elite, but Smith managed to hit the general threshold and Ruggs never did.
Did his QB just not like him?
Did the coach not like him?
Was he really bad at paper scissors rock?
That's exactly what it is. Ruggs production is terrible. I said it a few months ago he reminds me of DHB. Similar type of production. DHB a bit better speed score and Ruggs a bit better burst score. And before anyone says it I know they aren't similar height & weight.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, N Harry
TE - Jarwin, Gesicki, Boyle, Sprinkle

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:01 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:31 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am


Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Ruggs is going in the 1st round, so he was a 1st round caliber WR.

Smith was very much in the discussion this year but decided to go back to school to solidify that position, and Waddle will be in 1st round discussions next year which also makes him a 1st round caliber player.
Yes, but the comment I highlighted was that he was playing with 3 other first round Caliber WR's. He's not included in that statement. When player go to the draft board, they get an assessment. They are about 85 percent correct with their grades on first and 2nd round, so if he got a first round grade, he would have certainly been advised to declare. Pretty likely Devonta Smith was not given a grade he liked. At the time they played, last year, neither Smith nor Waddle were 1st round caliber. Maybe in the future, with more time in college, they will be, but not when Ruggs was playing with them.
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer/Runner Up

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Crowder, Agholor, Sanu, , D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Clay

Taxi: Mims, Asiasi

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:16 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am


Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.
Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Either way, Ruggs played with a historical amount of WR talent on his team. Smith was really good last year. Waddle as a 4th receiver is a luxury. Then you remember that these same players were competing with Calvin Ridley at one point too. There's an unparalleled amount of dilution.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby cantguardjake » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:22 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 am


Because he was sharing targets with 3 other 1st round caliber WRs.
Yep.

Also, the notion isn't necessarily that Ruggs ran every route well, but that he simply enters the pros with two years of experience running a more diverse route tree than some who dominated on a route or two, and may not have the tools to repeat that at the next level.

Ruggs combination of elite speed, stop/start ability, suddenness, and improved technical ability is very interesting. Can he be used similarly to Tyreek Hill? If he can, then he's a steal at his current draft range.
No. The only first round caliber WR was Jeudy, at the time, at least at the time. The others may one day be first rounders, but weren't to that caliber yet. Smith clearly would have declared had he got a first round grade. He made his decision to go back to school to try and improve it. Waddle was not a first round talent either, had he been able to declare. I think saying they are all first round caliber is a bit much, TBH.
Exactly this, why people still throw up Smith as a “first round” talent is beyond me. If he had a first or even second round grade he declares this year. He’s got plenty to work on.


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