More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Phaded » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm

The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:58 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:02 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:57 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:15 pm
Another player, another Kamara comp....

Why isn't the NFL filled with Kamara clones by now?
When teams miss big on a player, they frantically search for the "next" version. It's why T.J. Hockenson got drafted in the Top 10, a year after George Kittle (a 5th round pick, from the same school, in a similar role) broke the TE yardage record.

"The next Kamara"
"The next Antonio Brown"
"The next Stefon Diggs"
"The next Russell Wilson"
etc.
This isn't teams making these comparisons (at least publicly) it's commenters here on this forum. There have been at least 3 players compared to Kamara in this thread alone.
It's the same effect. People chase dragons

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby alewilliam789 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:43 pm

Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm
The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.
It’s not like the media helps tho. There’s always at least 2 articles on BR or on the forum that are trying to find the next Hunt or Kamara. Like when Philip Lindsay hit everybody was asking, “who’s the next PL?”
12 Owner 1 PPR (4th Season) 1QB, 2WR, 1RB, 1TE, 1 FLEX, 1K, 1 DEF -- 20 man roster
Record: 7-6
QB - Watson, Prescott, Carr
WR - Courtland Sutton, Michael Gallup, AJ Brown, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, John Brown, Andy Isabella, Josh Reynolds
RB - Miles Sanders
TE - T.J. Hockenson, I Thomas, J. Oliver

Picks:
2020-
4 1sts, 5 2nds, and a 3rd


12 Owner 1 PPR (3rd Season) 1QB, 2WR, 1RB, 1TE, 1 FLEX, 1K, 1 DEF -- 20 man roster
Record: 6-7
QB: Rivers, Wentz, Lock
RB: David Johnson, Mixon, Hyde
WR: Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, Brandin Cooks, AJ Green, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, Josh Reynolds, Andy Isabella
TE: Kittle, OJ Howard, Chris Herndon

Picks:
2020-
1st and 3rd

12 Owner 1 PPR (1st Season) 1QB 1-3 RB 1-3 WR 1-2 TE
1 K 1D/ST — 20 man rosters
Record: 7-6
QB: Mahomes, Stafford
RB: Chubb, Guice, Penny, Duke Johnson, Darrell Henderson
WR: Landry, Sutton, Marvin Jones, Harry, Crowder, Josh Reynolds
TE: Hooper, Goedert

2020:
2 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd Round Picks

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Lord_Varys » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:49 pm

"His game is similar to Kamara's"

...

"Everyone thinks their player is the next Kamara. People are so stupid."

Chill out, folks.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby jman3134 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:21 pm

alewilliam789 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:43 pm
Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm
The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.
It’s not like the media helps tho. There’s always at least 2 articles on BR or on the forum that are trying to find the next Hunt or Kamara. Like when Philip Lindsay hit everybody was asking, “who’s the next PL?”
To be fair, that was me on the PL thread, and it wasn't a player comp I was asking for. I was asking if there were any udfa rookie rbs capable of making the same impact in year 1, which is quite the rarity. Never did I comp their styles.
12 team, 35 man rosters, 1/2 PPR, 10 round rookie/FA draft
Qb: Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill
Rb: Saquon Barkley, Joe Mixon, Matt Breida, Austin Ekeler, Chase Edmonds, Troymaine Pope, Wes Hills, Trenton Cannon
Wr: DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Julian Edelman, John Brown, Keelan Cole, Jake Kumerow, Chris Conley, Richie James, Marquise Goodwin, Jakobi Meyers, Diontae Spencer, Brandon Zylstra, Duke Williams, Krishawn Hogan
Te: OJ Howard, George Kittle, Darren Waller, Jonnu Smith, Jacob Hollister, Dan Arnold
K: Jason Myers
D: Baltimore Ravens
2020 picks: 1 mid 1st, 2 late 2020 1sts, 4, 7,8,9,10,10

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby MrUbuto » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:23 pm

Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm
The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.
The treadwell - nkeal comp would like a word with you
QB - DWatson(HOU)Winston(TB)Finely(DEN)
RB - TGurley(LAR)DJohnson(ARI)NChubb(CLE)DHenry(TEN)
WR - ODB(NYG)AJ Green(CIN)ACooper (DAL)CDavis(TEN)
TE - HHenry(SD)DGoeddart(PHI)
K - Zurlien(LAR)Badgley(LAC)
Def - JAGS DET
[rookie] NHarry(NE)MBrown(BAL)Haskins(WAS)

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 - 2020's
Rosters must always be 3qbs 4wrs 4rbs 2tes 2kickers 2dst and protected players dont take up a roster spot, but are only for rookie/2nd year players that were drafted

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby jman3134 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Kamara or not, Beno looks great to me working with an awful line. He has the most unrecognized upside amongst backs coming into the predraft process.
12 team, 35 man rosters, 1/2 PPR, 10 round rookie/FA draft
Qb: Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill
Rb: Saquon Barkley, Joe Mixon, Matt Breida, Austin Ekeler, Chase Edmonds, Troymaine Pope, Wes Hills, Trenton Cannon
Wr: DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Julian Edelman, John Brown, Keelan Cole, Jake Kumerow, Chris Conley, Richie James, Marquise Goodwin, Jakobi Meyers, Diontae Spencer, Brandon Zylstra, Duke Williams, Krishawn Hogan
Te: OJ Howard, George Kittle, Darren Waller, Jonnu Smith, Jacob Hollister, Dan Arnold
K: Jason Myers
D: Baltimore Ravens
2020 picks: 1 mid 1st, 2 late 2020 1sts, 4, 7,8,9,10,10

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby PR0v3 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:49 pm

Do you even want the next Kamara? Dude is RB15 and costing people leagues. :)

Who is the next Ekeler is the real question?
12 Team .5 PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/RB 20 man rosters, 5 man taxi est. 2018
QB: Jimmy G
RB: Penny, Mattison
WR: K. Allen, Boyd, Hollywood, C. Samuel, Deebo, A. Miller, C. Davis, Washington, Ross, Pettis, Trequan
TE: Andrews, Gesicki, Everett, OJ
K: Legatron
Taxi: JJAW, Justice, Hurd
2020 Picks: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Phaded » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:52 pm

MrUbuto wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:23 pm
Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm
The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.
The treadwell - nkeal comp would like a word with you
Who around here was comparing him to Treadwell? (besides me)

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby MrUbuto » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 pm

Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:52 pm
MrUbuto wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:23 pm
Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm
The answer is simple. Everyone wants to assume best case scenario comparison for every prospect.
The treadwell - nkeal comp would like a word with you
Who around here was comparing him to Treadwell? (besides me)
Haha didnt even realize it was you. I've seen it s few other places too. Scares the bleep out of me.
QB - DWatson(HOU)Winston(TB)Finely(DEN)
RB - TGurley(LAR)DJohnson(ARI)NChubb(CLE)DHenry(TEN)
WR - ODB(NYG)AJ Green(CIN)ACooper (DAL)CDavis(TEN)
TE - HHenry(SD)DGoeddart(PHI)
K - Zurlien(LAR)Badgley(LAC)
Def - JAGS DET
[rookie] NHarry(NE)MBrown(BAL)Haskins(WAS)

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 - 2020's
Rosters must always be 3qbs 4wrs 4rbs 2tes 2kickers 2dst and protected players dont take up a roster spot, but are only for rookie/2nd year players that were drafted

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Factory of Sadness » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:37 pm

Is anyone else getting bored of the way every conversation has to be sidelined into a lament about how stupid everyone except our board wisemen is?

Comparing a prospect to an NFL player is a very natural thing to do. As long as the implication isn't that the prospect is likely to be the equal of the NFL player, then there's nothing intrinsically ridiculous about it at all. There's a snobbery on these boards though, that means a lot of people like to pretend that everyone who does so is a dupe who imagines hundreds of Kamaras jogging onto the field in Mobile in formation.

Unless you only speak in terms of raw data, which we know to be both informative and limiting, then trying to picture a prospect's closest NFL comparison is not only pretty inevitable, but entirely sensible. Personally it doesn't strike me as half as foolish as some of the assertions that go unchallenged on here as we all groupthink our way to certainty about rookies we should know we'll be wrong about eventually. Trying to picture DK3 Cone playing on Sundays for instance, and looking at similar NFL players, both physically and, for want of a better word, stylistically, might have been a better process than dismissing him in 7.38 seconds.

The extent to which this extrapolation goes unchallenged can be problematic of course, but it is perfectly sensible for scouts to consider what they missed on Kittle and seek to find it again in Hockenson- as long as they don't blind themselves to the differences between them in doing so. If you're not curious about why Alvin Kamara could transfer his 4.56 speed and meagre college production into NFL stardom, then you're getting it wrong. If you think the answer lies in balance, fluidity, spacial awareness, tempo, speed in pads, whatever it might be, you're going to try to see that answer in college prospects.

Yes, hyperbole is annoying, as is the mindless pre-draft chatter about David Montgomery having the balance of LeVeon Bell, the thighs of Thanos and the digestive organs of a python. Making a comparison between a prospect and a pro though is a sensible thing to do and shouldn't always trigger the same circle-jerk of self-congratulatory, self-appointed experts making these predictable complaints.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby AussieMate » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Factory of Sadness wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:37 pm
Is anyone else getting bored of the way every conversation has to be sidelined into a lament about how stupid everyone except our board wisemen is?

Comparing a prospect to an NFL player is a very natural thing to do. As long as the implication isn't that the prospect is likely to be the equal of the NFL player, then there's nothing intrinsically ridiculous about it at all. There's a snobbery on these boards though, that means a lot of people like to pretend that everyone who does so is a dupe who imagines hundreds of Kamaras jogging onto the field in Mobile in formation.

Unless you only speak in terms of raw data, which we know to be both informative and limiting, then trying to picture a prospect's closest NFL comparison is not only pretty inevitable, but entirely sensible. Personally it doesn't strike me as half as foolish as some of the assertions that go unchallenged on here as we all groupthink our way to certainty about rookies we should know we'll be wrong about eventually. Trying to picture DK3 Cone playing on Sundays for instance, and looking at similar NFL players, both physically and, for want of a better word, stylistically, might have been a better process than dismissing him in 7.38 seconds.

The extent to which this extrapolation goes unchallenged can be problematic of course, but it is perfectly sensible for scouts to consider what they missed on Kittle and seek to find it again in Hockenson- as long as they don't blind themselves to the differences between them in doing so. If you're not curious about why Alvin Kamara could transfer his 4.56 speed and meagre college production into NFL stardom, then you're getting it wrong. If you think the answer lies in balance, fluidity, spacial awareness, tempo, speed in pads, whatever it might be, you're going to try to see that answer in college prospects.

Yes, hyperbole is annoying, as is the mindless pre-draft chatter about David Montgomery having the balance of LeVeon Bell, the thighs of Thanos and the digestive organs of a python. Making a comparison between a prospect and a pro though is a sensible thing to do and shouldn't always trigger the same circle-jerk of self-congratulatory, self-appointed experts making these predictable complaints.
The problem is the comparisons are not even close, an RB does one jump cut in college and all of sudden they're David Johnson. Not bothered by comparisons but it gets stretched to fit rather then actually be accurate.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Factory of Sadness » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:52 am

I totally get that and the hype can be annoying. The trigger for this latest bout of scoffing was hardly egregious though. The line after drawing the comparison was this-
'He's slightly undersized at 5'10" 201lbs which could hurt, and playing against PAC 12 defenses may make his tape look better than he actually is ... '
That doesn't sound to me like someone complacently sure that their comparison is between two identical players.

I think I'm just a little tired of the recurring rhythm of this really. Poster makes a remark that could be viewed as to some degree hyperbolic and the clan gathers to smirk at how stupid everyone else is...

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:02 am

jman3134 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:24 pm
Kamara or not, Beno looks great to me working with an awful line. He has the most unrecognized upside amongst backs coming into the predraft process.
I'm assuming you mean Eno? He looks like a 3rd down, COP back. I see him listed at 201. Good power for his size. Tons of receptions. Has a nice jump cut, and decent burst, lacks top end speed. Could be a solid PPR back.
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby chalorpas » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 am

I am looking forward to the 2020 draft. I usually sell my 1sts for players but decided to blow my team up in a 32-team double player copy league this year and now have 14 1sts and 2 2nds (and Tyreek Hill and George Kittle as my only players worth anything). Sadly a lot of my 1sts ended up being towards the end of the 1st round. I have picks 1, 4, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 16, 16, 17, 22. Obviously will need to trade some of the duplicate picks at the end of the 1st as I can't own two of the same player. My current rankings for 2020 are:
1. Jonathan Taylor
2. D'Andre Swift
3. Jerry Jeudy
4. Travis Etienne
5. CeeDee Lamb
6. Cam Akers
7. J.K. Dobbins
8. Henry Ruggs
9. Clyde Edwards-Helaire
10. Najee Harris
11. Laviska Shenault
12. Chuba Hubbard
13. Tee Higgins
14. Jalen Reagor
15. Zack Moss
16. Justin Jefferson
17. Tyler Johnson
18. DeVonta Smith
19. Anthony McFarland
20. Ke'Shawn Vaughn
21. Eno Benjamin
22. Tylan Wallace
23. Bryan Edwards
24. Kylin Hill
25. Antonio Gandy-Golden

Obviously there will be a lot of movement depending on who ends up declaring, the combine results, and landing spots, but it is fun to look at all the prospects now. It does seem like a very deep draft. Does anyone have an argument for a player who should be an obvious move-up or move-down to them?


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