More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

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davieglove34
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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby davieglove34 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:45 pm

Forza_Azzurri wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:05 pm
nathanq42 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:47 pm
alewilliam789 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 pm
I think Shenault and Eteinne are going to be the most controversial prospects because their projections could have them being top tier players in the right situation to possible back-ups/gadget roles.

If Shenault is smart he should tell teams he’s just an athlete willing to participate in all the offensive skill position drills (TE, WR, RB). I truly believe that Shenault will be more successful in the NFL being used as part TE, part Wildcat RB, and part WR than solely being any one of those positions.
I don't think anyone will be more controversial than Reagor...

I agree shenault should say he is willing to fill any roll they think he will fit into
He’s has had such a bad year ... I surprised that he declared for the draft.
This is not exactly true...Yes, his numbers were down compared to last season, but there were multiple reasons for that.

His 2018 season obviously turned a lot of heads, including the DCs in the PAC-12. CU doesn't exactly boast the type of elite talent that other big-name schools have, so it was easier for teams to focus on making sure Viska wasn't the one to beat them. He faced a ton of double and bracket coverages from opposing defenses as a result.

In 2018, former head coach Mike MacIntyre put a strong focus on getting Laviska the ball in open space as often as possible. In 2019, new head coach Mel Tucker focused on a more balanced attack that distributed the ball more evenly throughout the offense--Shenault had 30 more receptions in 2018 than he had in 2019, despite the fact that he played in 2 fewer games in 2018. He also had 7 games with 8 or more catches in 2018--in 2019, he only had 3.

Steven Montez REALLY struggled at times this year. Aside from his poor decision making at times, I can't begin to count the number of times Shenault would burn his man and be running free for would-be TDs, only to have Montez overthrow or just flat-out miss him. His numbers might not show it, but if you watched Colorado play this year, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. He was wildly inaccurate at times, especially with his deep ball.

So as a whole, yes, Laviska's numbers were down, but that had a lot, if not mostly, to do more with the situation he was in rather than the player himself.
10-Team, .5 PPR Dynasty League.
1-QB / 2-RB / 2-WR / 1-TE / 2-FLEX / 1-D/ST / 1-K / 12-BN / 3-IR / 3-TAXI SQUAD


QB: Josh Allen / Ryan Fitzpatrick / (Former Andrew Luck owner)
RB: Le'Veon Bell / James Conner / Chris Carson / Mark Ingram / Bo Scarbrough / Jaylen Samuels / Bilal Powell
WR: Odell Beckham Jr. / Amari Cooper / Mike Evans / Sammy Watkins / Emmanuel Sanders / Dede Westbrook / Terry McLaurin
TE: Jacob Hollister / Jack Doyle / Gronk
D/ST: Patriots / Steelers
K: Mason Crosby

IR: Ben Roethlisberger / Will Dissly / Matthew Stafford

Taxi: Noah Fant / Preston Williams

Picks:
2020: 1st
2021: 2nd / 3rd
2022: 1st / 2nd / 3rd

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Phaded » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm

The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby StripesOfKC » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:59 pm

davieglove34 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:45 pm
Forza_Azzurri wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:05 pm
nathanq42 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:47 pm


I don't think anyone will be more controversial than Reagor...

I agree shenault should say he is willing to fill any roll they think he will fit into
He’s has had such a bad year ... I surprised that he declared for the draft.
This is not exactly true...Yes, his numbers were down compared to last season, but there were multiple reasons for that.

His 2018 season obviously turned a lot of heads, including the DCs in the PAC-12. CU doesn't exactly boast the type of elite talent that other big-name schools have, so it was easier for teams to focus on making sure Viska wasn't the one to beat them. He faced a ton of double and bracket coverages from opposing defenses as a result.

In 2018, former head coach Mike MacIntyre put a strong focus on getting Laviska the ball in open space as often as possible. In 2019, new head coach Mel Tucker focused on a more balanced attack that distributed the ball more evenly throughout the offense--Shenault had 30 more receptions in 2018 than he had in 2019, despite the fact that he played in 2 fewer games in 2018. He also had 7 games with 8 or more catches in 2018--in 2019, he only had 3.

Steven Montez REALLY struggled at times this year. Aside from his poor decision making at times, I can't begin to count the number of times Shenault would burn his man and be running free for would-be TDs, only to have Montez overthrow or just flat-out miss him. His numbers might not show it, but if you watched Colorado play this year, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. He was wildly inaccurate at times, especially with his deep ball.

So as a whole, yes, Laviska's numbers were down, but that had a lot, if not mostly, to do more with the situation he was in rather than the player himself.
I am not sure but the guy above may have been talking about Reagor when saying he was talking about the bad year and his surprise at "him" coming out. Works for either really

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Forza_Azzurri » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:13 pm

StripesOfKC wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:59 pm
davieglove34 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:45 pm
Forza_Azzurri wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:05 pm


He’s has had such a bad year ... I surprised that he declared for the draft.
This is not exactly true...Yes, his numbers were down compared to last season, but there were multiple reasons for that.

His 2018 season obviously turned a lot of heads, including the DCs in the PAC-12. CU doesn't exactly boast the type of elite talent that other big-name schools have, so it was easier for teams to focus on making sure Viska wasn't the one to beat them. He faced a ton of double and bracket coverages from opposing defenses as a result.

In 2018, former head coach Mike MacIntyre put a strong focus on getting Laviska the ball in open space as often as possible. In 2019, new head coach Mel Tucker focused on a more balanced attack that distributed the ball more evenly throughout the offense--Shenault had 30 more receptions in 2018 than he had in 2019, despite the fact that he played in 2 fewer games in 2018. He also had 7 games with 8 or more catches in 2018--in 2019, he only had 3.

Steven Montez REALLY struggled at times this year. Aside from his poor decision making at times, I can't begin to count the number of times Shenault would burn his man and be running free for would-be TDs, only to have Montez overthrow or just flat-out miss him. His numbers might not show it, but if you watched Colorado play this year, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. He was wildly inaccurate at times, especially with his deep ball.

So as a whole, yes, Laviska's numbers were down, but that had a lot, if not mostly, to do more with the situation he was in rather than the player himself.
I am not sure but the guy above may have been talking about Reagor when saying he was talking about the bad year and his surprise at "him" coming out. Works for either really
Yeah, my bad. I was referring to Reagor. I actually think Shenault could be very good in the right system.

16 Team PPR | QB (1) RB (2-4) WR (2-5) TE (1-2) K (1) | DT (1-2) DE (2-4) LB (2-5) CB (3-6) S (2-5)

|QB| R. Wilson, J. Allen, D. Carr, D. Lock, E. Stick (taxi)
|RB| A. Kamara, J. Jacobs, J. Mixon, L. Murray, R. Anderson (IR)
|WR| C. Godwin, D.J. Moore, D.K. Metcalf, M. Gallup, , J. Ross, Da. Moore
|TE| J. Hollister, M. Gesicki, K. Rudolph, T. Eifert, I. Thomas, M. LaCosse, R. Gronkowski
|K| B. Maher
|DT| S. Richardson, Q. Williams, T. Bryan, T. Hill (taxi)
|DE| J. Clowney, Y. Ngakoue, J. Pierre-Paul, D. Barnett, T. Charlton, E. Ansah, A. Key (IR), J. Sweat (taxi)
|LB| L. Vander Esch, D. Trevathan, C. Holcomb, N. Gerry, M. Kendricks, S. Dion Hamilton, S. Ebukam, T.J. Edwards, M. Jefferson, V. Joseph (IR), R. Foster (IR), K. Beckwith (IR), D. Cole (IR), S. Eguavoen (taxi)
|CB| S. Gilmore, M. Peters, D. Trufant, G. Conley, B. Jones, G. Haley
|S| M. Fitzpatrick, T. Walker, X. Woods, E. Thomas, E. Murray
|2020 PICKS| #1 (x2), #3, #6
|2021 PICKS| #1, #2, #3

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby cantguardjake » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:07 am

Is it just me or does a HUGE amount of Dobbins production come from outside / off tackle runs? Etienne is the far superior prospect imo.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:49 am

Forza_Azzurri wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:05 pm

He’s has had such a bad year ... I surprised that he declared for the draft.
Shenault or Reagor?

Shenault is still widely projected to go in the 1st round and as of now is fairly locked in as the #3 WR in the class. PFF just had him going 17th overall to the Colts in their most recent mock draft the other day, and I know he's been a pretty regular fixture in Kiper/Mcshays Big Board and rankings.

Reagor has had a rather up and down year, but a big reason for that is the QB play at TCU this year. He's still made some unbelievable plays and ultimately projects well to the NFL game and probably needs to move on to develop any more. He could still sneak into the 1st round with a great combine and pre-draft process. Barring a disastrous combine, injury or off-field incident he's pretty much a lock to go relatively early in day 2.

Both are going to go high enough that it's the right call, and returning isn't really going to do anything for their draft stock except potentially lower it.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby perkinsrooster » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 am

Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
So are you trading your picks? I have two mid to late firsts and 2.02 and 2.03.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby nathanq42 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:02 am

perkinsrooster wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 am
Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
So are you trading your picks? I have two mid to late firsts and 2.02 and 2.03.
If I can cash out for guys that I like at good prices I for sure am, but 5 first round dart throws in this draft ain't shabby
12 Team 20 man roster 4 reserve slots 1 ppr .2 points per carry
Garbage
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1WR/RB/TE 1K 1DEF
QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Goff, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew
RB Rashaad Penny, Austin Ekeler, Royce Freeman, Jerrick McKinnon, Justice Hill
WR Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Junior, DJ Moore, Dede Westbrook, Parris Campbell, Preston Williams, Zach Parscal, James Washington, Hakeem Butler
TE TJ Hockenson, Darren Waller, Jacob Hollister

Picks
5 2020 firsts (3 in top 6 lottery, 1.7, 1.9)
2 2021 firsts (both mid to late)

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:16 am

Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
2016 was my first year playing Dynasty, so I can't speak to the hype around that class among the Dynasty community leading up to the draft, but I've always followed the draft closely and I didn't like that class very much.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby Phaded » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:00 am

perkinsrooster wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 am
Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
So are you trading your picks? I have two mid to late firsts and 2.02 and 2.03.
I always trade my firsts, every single year. I grab picks ahead of time, then trade them closer to draft time. I even did it with the pick that ended up being 1.01 when Barkley was coming out. Generally speaking, I prefer to acquire assets I believe in over those that have never stepped on an NFL field. The hit rate on those picks is quite low, especially when you get out of the top 6 picks statistically speaking.

If they are deep classes or risky prospects who are sliding, I will try to get some late 2nds, 3rds, etc.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby nathanq42 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 am

Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:00 am
perkinsrooster wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 am
Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
So are you trading your picks? I have two mid to late firsts and 2.02 and 2.03.
I always trade my firsts, every single year. I grab picks ahead of time, then trade them closer to draft time. I even did it with the pick that ended up being 1.01 when Barkley was coming out. Generally speaking, I prefer to acquire assets I believe in over those that have never stepped on an NFL field.

If they are deep classes or risky prospects who are sliding, I will try to get some late 2nds, 3rds, etc.
100000% agree, but I am more inclined to trade back in this draft than I am to sell for solely a player

But with how stagnant my league is I am likely going to have to sit tight and hope the rookies pan out
12 Team 20 man roster 4 reserve slots 1 ppr .2 points per carry
Garbage
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1WR/RB/TE 1K 1DEF
QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Goff, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew
RB Rashaad Penny, Austin Ekeler, Royce Freeman, Jerrick McKinnon, Justice Hill
WR Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Junior, DJ Moore, Dede Westbrook, Parris Campbell, Preston Williams, Zach Parscal, James Washington, Hakeem Butler
TE TJ Hockenson, Darren Waller, Jacob Hollister

Picks
5 2020 firsts (3 in top 6 lottery, 1.7, 1.9)
2 2021 firsts (both mid to late)

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby hoos89 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:28 am

Phaded wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:00 am
perkinsrooster wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 am
Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 pm
The one thing I've learned about fantasy football.. or.. life in general for that matter, is that hype rarely translates to success.

So, in before this class dramatically disappoints 2016 style.
So are you trading your picks? I have two mid to late firsts and 2.02 and 2.03.
I always trade my firsts, every single year. I grab picks ahead of time, then trade them closer to draft time. I even did it with the pick that ended up being 1.01 when Barkley was coming out. Generally speaking, I prefer to acquire assets I believe in over those that have never stepped on an NFL field. The hit rate on those picks is quite low, especially when you get out of the top 6 picks statistically speaking.

If they are deep classes or risky prospects who are sliding, I will try to get some late 2nds, 3rds, etc.
This might be a good season for someone with your philosophy to add a couple 2nds. I think there will be a few high level hits down there this season.
nathanq42 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 am

100000% agree, but I am more inclined to trade back in this draft than I am to sell for solely a player

But with how stagnant my league is I am likely going to have to sit tight and hope the rookies pan out
I think this is going to be a tough draft class to trade back in given how deep it is perceived to be. This isn't going to be one of those years where 1.01 goes for 1.03 + 1.05. Of course if you see the players at the top as interchangeable then maybe you should just get what value you can find (or alternatively trade for 2021 picks/vets). That said...I'd actually probably take the opposite approach at this point and attempt to trade up to 1.01 because, while there is no clear cut 1.01 as of today, KC has the potential to anoint one by taking an RB early in the draft. This is definitely price dependent, but if I can catch someone who is feeling that the top few prospects are relatively interchangeable it might end up being a good value play.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 2.03, 2.11, 2.12, 3.05, 3.11, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR, 6 pt Pass TD - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
2020 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 2.10, 2.11

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby stoneghost28 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:59 pm

mild wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:22 pm
perkinsrooster wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:03 pm
Are we saying Lamb's comp is Jordan Matthews?
Good lord no.

:wall: :wall: :wall:

I am definitely not saying that.
It's not a bad thing to say that, pre-litany of injuries, Matthews was on an outstanding trajectory and had terrific draft pedigree, a few details:

42nd pick overall in the best WR Draft EVER (had basically 14 different guys that produced at least 1 relatively relevant season, and a ton of stars).

Pre-injury counting stats:
'14: 67-872-8
'15: 85-997-8
'16: 73-804-3

That's not exactly accurate since he was getting dinged up every single season but the collapse in production occurred during/after season #3.

He was on his way to totally delivering on his promise and then the roof caved in. I got caught to a degree in that collapse like others, but I 100% believe if he could've stayed heallthy, he was a locked in WR2 with WR1 productivity bubbling up from time to time.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby stoneghost28 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:14 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:29 pm
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... retirement

So I know TE is considered the weakness of this class and doesn't compare to last years class or 2017, but there are still some solid prospects and 2 or 3 guys that might have a chance to sneak into the 1st round. Unfortunately we lost one of the better prospects in Grant Calcaterra who is retiring due to concussions. Most places I've read had him as a top 5 TE in the class, and pretty sure I remember reading someone ranking him at #1 at some point. It's a shame he's losing his football career over it, but good to see guys making a decision like this and not risking their long-term well being.

On the subject of TEs I think there's a fairly clear top 3 at this point who could be in line for mid 2nd roundish value in rookie drafts.

Quotes are from PFF article on top 5 draft eligible players at each offensive position

Hunter Bryant, Washington

"Bryant will never be a value add as an inline blocker. That’s ok, it’s 2019. He’s a tweener that could pass for a receiver if need be. He’s got 647 yards on 41 catches and broken eight tackles on the season."

Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt

"After a dominant 2018 that saw him haul in 50 passes for 770 yards and seven touchdowns, Pinkney has not been nearly as featured this season. He hasn’t caught a ball in Vanderbilt’s last three games and has only 15 catches for 157 yards on the season. It’s not like the talent went away, but that lack of production has dropped him down a bit in our eyes."

Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri

"Okwuegbunam has been excellent in the red zone for the Tigers over the course of his career with 23 touchdowns over the past three seasons. He’s been a limited route runner, though, and dropped four of his 30 catchable passes this season."
My thoughts on the TE class are the same thoughts I've been addressing to my moronic Redskins for the past two years. Eschew '19, and just dumpster dive on guys from the loaded '17 and '18 classes that haven't popped yet and/or are working their way into a starting role (been arguing that my crappy redskins should've worked hard to trade for the following guys) Jonnu Smith, Gerald Everett, Ian Thomas, Njoku, Jordan Thomas, Foster Moreau, Kahale Warring, Josh Oliver, Jacob Hollister, Jace Sternberger, Dawson Knox, Chris Herndon, Gesicki, OJ Howard, heck even Adam Shaheen and Jordan Thomas. Ive probably drafted, cut, reacquired, cut, reacquired, cut Smith, Everett, Thomas, Moreau, Oliver, Sternberger, Knox, Herndon, Gesicki and Shaheen alone a half dozen times a piece.

To me, rather than draft 2019 rookie TE's, dumpster dive on the above list. Starting in late September/Early October I tried to pile up Smith, Everett, Thomas, Moreau, Oliver, Knox and Gesicki shares. Unfortunately I cut a bunch of Smith, Everett, Ian Thomas, and Gesicki shares before some of them broke out, but I'm happy to have reacquired for good a lot of Everettt, Ian Thomas, Oliver, and Hollister shares.

That, to me, anyway, is the way to handle TE w/regards to the '19 rookie draft. Strong pass, pick up the guys you can still pick up on waivers, if you can't, try to swing trades for guys that are entering year 3, or that you really believe in period, maybe you can pull off a 3rd for a 5th and the TE, or a 2nd for a 3rd and a TE if they're good enough, but it's worth it. I'm kicking myself that I gave up on Jonnu, Gesicki and Everett just in time for them to finally wake up.

Shaheen I gave up on because the brass just seem to view him as a blocker. Doesnt make sense to me considering his athletic profile and basketball background, but that would just make him the latest in a long line of mega athlete, low production TE prospects that it turned out, weren't close to Antonio Gates.

Anyway, again, dumpster dive/trade for young TE's who havent broken out yet, don't waste draft capital on this class.

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Re: More 2020 Hype: "If You Need A RB or WR, this is the draft for you."

Postby AussieMate » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:17 pm

stoneghost28 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:59 pm
mild wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:22 pm
perkinsrooster wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:03 pm
Are we saying Lamb's comp is Jordan Matthews?
Good lord no.

:wall: :wall: :wall:

I am definitely not saying that.
It's not a bad thing to say that, pre-litany of injuries, Matthews was on an outstanding trajectory and had terrific draft pedigree, a few details:

42nd pick overall in the best WR Draft EVER (had basically 14 different guys that produced at least 1 relatively relevant season, and a ton of stars).

Pre-injury counting stats:
'14: 67-872-8
'15: 85-997-8
'16: 73-804-3

That's not exactly accurate since he was getting dinged up every single season but the collapse in production occurred during/after season #3.

He was on his way to totally delivering on his promise and then the roof caved in. I got caught to a degree in that collapse like others, but I 100% believe if he could've stayed heallthy, he was a locked in WR2 with WR1 productivity bubbling up from time to time.
He struggled with drops and playing outside but he could have excelled in a Kupp type role.


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