Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

[jenkins.math]

I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?

Harmon is light years better as a route runner, the other two.... not so much.

Harmon has the entire deception package. He cuts well above average. Great footwork to beat press. Subtle head movement in routes that sells the route, outstanding hand use. Best trait might be his look inside then suddenness to a back shoulder fade catch. Relentless at tracking the ball. I like him much better than either Harry or Butler.

His game speed is solid. Think he is a near can't miss prospect with a high floor. Targeting him at 1.5/1.6. (Doubt he gets past 1.4 in the draft I want him)

He is in my top 5 at WR and probably the 2nd safest WR in this class behind AJ Brown.

This is easily the 3rd or 4th prospect you have thrown out the "can't miss" label on. You must have this class labeled as one of the best over the last handful of years then?

Harmon to me is a decent prospect but just doesn't seem to stand out in any major way. Looks like a guy who will be around the league for a while, but never make a massive impact at all.

[FantasyFreak]

I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?

Harmon is light years better as a route runner, the other two.... not so much.

Harmon has the entire deception package. He cuts well above average. Great footwork to beat press. Subtle head movement in routes that sells the route, outstanding hand use. Best trait might be his look inside then suddenness to a back shoulder fade catch. Relentless at tracking the ball. I like him much better than either Harry or Butler.

His game speed is solid. Think he is a near can't miss prospect with a high floor. Targeting him at 1.5/1.6. (Doubt he gets past 1.4 in the draft I want him)

He is in my top 5 at WR and probably the 2nd safest WR in this class behind AJ Brown.

This is easily the 3rd or 4th prospect you have thrown out the "can't miss" label on. You must have this class labeled as one of the best over the last handful of years then?

Harmon to me is a decent prospect but just doesn't seem to stand out in any major way. Looks like a guy who will be around the league for a while, but never make a massive impact at all.

I really liked Harmon pre combine, but his Treadwell level athleticism really has me worried. I can't justify a mid first on him anymore. I he falls to the early 2nd, I'm all over it.

[Phaded]

I like him better than Harry, but do not love him.

Just out of curiosity, how do you evaluate prospects? You mostly seem contrarian to the masses, nothing wrong with that just trying to pick your brain a little.

That is a fair assessment of myself; and while I never do it intentionally just to differ from the masses - it just seems to happen that way pretty often.

Full disclosure - I do not watch college football during the season. I will review tape of players for the upcoming draft class, however.
The main reason I do not watch college football kind of ties into what I look for on tape; defense is not good at the college level. In fact, I would go so far as to say that in most situations - defense is just outright bad.

With that said - when I evaluate tape of upcoming prospects; a lot of people like to highlight what players can do. I am the opposite. I specifically watch tape to seek out what players cannot do and then I look at potential red flags - forming an opinion on how important that ability (or inability in this case) is at the NFL level. I also make a point to seek out the tape for games where their stat line was not as desireable and then evaluate; what happened?

For example - receivers who continually struggle to separate are a massive red flag for me. Contested catches make for a great highlight reel play; but as the NFL progresses it becomes increasingly less important as defenders cannot be nearly as physical as they once were.

I am not going to claim to have flawless evaluation; nobody here does otherwise we would probably be highly sought after by the actual NFL. However, I tend to trust my gut over the consensus - at least that way; I have no one to blame but myself if I am wrong instead of just being frustrated that I listened to others instead of formulating my own opinion.

Following my own hunches and analysis is literally more than half the fun at this point.

[ArrylT]

I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?

Harmon is light years better as a route runner, the other two.... not so much.

Harmon has the entire deception package. He cuts well above average. Great footwork to beat press. Subtle head movement in routes that sells the route, outstanding hand use. Best trait might be his look inside then suddenness to a back shoulder fade catch. Relentless at tracking the ball. I like him much better than either Harry or Butler.

His game speed is solid. Think he is a near can't miss prospect with a high floor. Targeting him at 1.5/1.6. (Doubt he gets past 1.4 in the draft I want him)

He is in my top 5 at WR and probably the 2nd safest WR in this class behind AJ Brown.

This is easily the 3rd or 4th prospect you have thrown out the "can't miss" label on. You must have this class labeled as one of the best over the last handful of years then?

Harmon to me is a decent prospect but just doesn't seem to stand out in any major way. Looks like a guy who will be around the league for a while, but never make a massive impact at all.

I think he (Ice) addressed this in a different forum so I hope he doesnt mind my sharing his post from that thread:

Just because there is not a clear cut 1.1 in this draft doesn't mean it is a weak class in any way. This is the strongest WR class I have seen in several years. The RB class is a bit more difficult to evaluate but there are solid players there as well.

RB's are typically much easier to evaluate because the position is much easier to play and not as reliant on QB play. No issue taking RB 1.1 but it doesn't discount WR talent.

Amari Cooper has 3 Pro Bowls already.... It's way more of Fantasy expectation than reality of under performed in his case. The perception of under performing is not reality. Dallas gladly gave up a 1st rounder and most thought they were nuts.... They were not.

WR's seem to scare fantasy owners. I have read on here countless times this class is garbage and trade out for 2020 but in reality fantasy owners can only see several potential RB's next season because they are easier to evaluate.

Fantasy owners in a few years will look back at this class and come to the realization just how good this group of WR's really is compared to past classes. There are a good 6 or 7 in this class that could easily pass any from last year. Many will claim genius because a great one slipped to round 2.

There are several JuJu types in this class if an owner has the acumen to pick them.

What is also funny is thinking these WR's may be weak because they get picked in the 2nd or 3rd round.

News Flash; RB's and WR's will slip because this looks like the best draft in a decade for front 7 defenders and has several stud O Lineman and 3-4 high quality 3 down TE's. Those types simply don't come around very often at this level.

Sanders as an example to slip to round 3 but could be a 1.1 candidate in fantasy. Parris Campbell is a highly skilled player at WR that virtually is getting no press but in the right situation could be the next JuJu. It is not that they are bad players, it is there are generational players at low risk long lasting NFL positions.

Best overall group of NFL rookies in a long long time.

That said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence for the 2020 RB class but Jacobs and Sanders both flash all pro potential on tape.

[tresskid84]

I like him better than Harry, but do not love him.

Just out of curiosity, how do you evaluate prospects? You mostly seem contrarian to the masses, nothing wrong with that just trying to pick your brain a little.

That is a fair assessment of myself; and while I never do it intentionally just to differ from the masses - it just seems to happen that way pretty often.

Full disclosure - I do not watch college football during the season. I will review tape of players for the upcoming draft class, however.
The main reason I do not watch college football kind of ties into what I look for on tape; defense is not good at the college level. In fact, I would go so far as to say that in most situations - defense is just outright bad.

With that said - when I evaluate tape of upcoming prospects; a lot of people like to highlight what players can do. I am the opposite. I specifically watch tape to seek out what players cannot do and then I look at potential red flags - forming an opinion on how important that ability (or inability in this case) is at the NFL level. I also make a point to seek out the tape for games where their stat line was not as desireable and then evaluate; what happened?

For example - receivers who continually struggle to separate are a massive red flag for me. Contested catches make for a great highlight reel play; but as the NFL progresses it becomes increasingly less important as defenders cannot be nearly as physical as they once were.

I am not going to claim to have flawless evaluation; nobody here does otherwise we would probably be highly sought after by the actual NFL. However, I tend to trust my gut over the consensus - at least that way; I have no one to blame but myself if I am wrong instead of just being frustrated that I listened to others instead of formulating my own opinion.

Following my own hunches and analysis is literally more than half the fun at this point.

This makes evaluation of corners in college tougher too, because you get away with so much more contact in college than the NFL

[Ice]

I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?

Harmon is light years better as a route runner, the other two.... not so much.

Harmon has the entire deception package. He cuts well above average. Great footwork to beat press. Subtle head movement in routes that sells the route, outstanding hand use. Best trait might be his look inside then suddenness to a back shoulder fade catch. Relentless at tracking the ball. I like him much better than either Harry or Butler.

His game speed is solid. Think he is a near can't miss prospect with a high floor. Targeting him at 1.5/1.6. (Doubt he gets past 1.4 in the draft I want him)

He is in my top 5 at WR and probably the 2nd safest WR in this class behind AJ Brown.

This is easily the 3rd or 4th prospect you have thrown out the "can't miss" label on. You must have this class labeled as one of the best over the last handful of years then?

Harmon to me is a decent prospect but just doesn't seem to stand out in any major way. Looks like a guy who will be around the league for a while, but never make a massive impact at all.

Yes, I think this is one of the best WR's classes in years.

I have personally spent several hours on this player. I can comfortably comp him to Michael Thomas or Aquan Boldin if you want to go back a few years.

This Player is really good at routes and fights for every ball. He is extremely nuanced in his routes and changes speeds when necessary. Love his play strength. I see a player with 100 catch potential as an excellent move the chains type of player. I have picked up 4 picks in round one. 1,2,5,6 and 2.2. (3 for sure in Round 1 will be WR's.)

IMO this player is in a contest with AJ Brown for the safest WR in this class.

I believe far too many look at straight line speed instead of routes and game speed. The two I mentioned are not burners either.

I have Harmon rated higher than any WR from last years class. I have him #4 with upside. Think Jarvis Landry on steroids if you want another comparison. I believe Landry has more receptions than any WR in history over his first 5 years and Harmon looks better. Landry was a 4.77 40 guy to put it in perspective.

Don't sleep on Harmon; he is a football player.

If one is looking for safe plays, I have Harmon 2nd. If he is there at 5, I will draft him with great confidence. Not a chance he falls IMO in my rankings but he could rise.

Harmon is one of favorites in this class. Extremely High Floor player.

[jordanzs]

Well it's official!

Thoughts?

[Wizard]

Seastrunk?

[Phaded]

Seastrunk was thought to be like one of the top assets pre-draft.
Then the draft happened.

[jordanzs]

Seastrunk?

Lache Seastrunk was a rookie RB in 2014. Pre-draft, he was going near the top of the RB food chain and early to mid 1st round.

The NFL draft slapped him down to round 6 from to the Redskins and he fizzled out.

[MEuRaH]

This is even worse imo. Hakeem Butler was going 1st overall in many mocks. He went first in the GEDL draft.

WRs this late in the draft do not have a lot of success.

[Flgatorguy87]

This is an epic failure for early drafts. The chances this guy hits are absolutely stacked against him now.

[Vcize]

Similar to ESB last year.

[briank]

Similar to ESB last year.

The NFL doesn’t like these big WR anymore.

[lilpuppy99]

God I loved Seastrunk..That spin move and speed. Ohhhh