Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

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Shcritters
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Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Shcritters » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:46 pm

So... he's currently the #1 ranked player by DFL draftniks? Everyone else has 100 post+ pages and I don't think there's been anything about this guy.

What do we think?
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:49 pm

I need to see what happens in the NFL draft.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Bot101 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:49 pm
I need to see what happens in the NFL draft.
This.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Servo » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Late breakout is concerning, was never able to leapfrog Allen Lazard for targets...who hasn't been anything more than a Prac. Squad player.

I'm sitting at the 1.08 in my 2QB and as of today, I'd probably be comfortable taking him there...but yeah, we'll see how things play out in a few weeks.
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Phaded » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:55 pm

Like Harry, the community seems higher on him than the NFL does.

I like him better than Harry, but do not love him.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby abecksta » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Just traded down from 1.01 to 1.03 and the only way i regret it is if Butler gets picked before me and turns into the player he could be.


He was probably going be my 1.01, based on upside, if i kept the pick but was okay trading down because i kind of really want aj brown.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Ice » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Not impressed much at this point. He does have some elite traits but isn’t a natural on tape. Doesn’t separate very well, looks slow off the line and drops seem to be an issue.

I don’t have a first round grade on him.

1.1 would be a massive reach. Like the others I would like to see his location before I commit any resources to him.
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby cougarplayer20 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:15 am

He isn’t as athletic as Metcalf and doesn’t have the college production of Metcalf, Harry, or Brown. He will probably have close to the same draft capital (just speculating) as Harry and Brown with Metcalf looking like going in the first round. So I would go Metcalf, Harry, Brown/Butler and three RBs I would take ahead of him.
Phaded wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:55 pm
I like him better than Harry, but do not love him.
Just out of curiosity, how do you evaluate prospects? You mostly seem contrarian to the masses, nothing wrong with that just trying to pick your brain a little.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:39 am

I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby cougarplayer20 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:16 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:39 am
I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?
To me the difference between Harry and Butler is the production. Harry broke out as an 18 year old Freshman where Butler has one good year of production. As far as Harmon, he isn’t as athletic as the other two nor does he have the production of Harry. I’ve pretty much moved Harmon off my board.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby DynastyDeepDive » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:45 am

A.J. Brown is my #1. Landing spots will shake up the rankings for sure.
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby mild » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:18 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:39 am
I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?
A little trip to Matt Waldman's boiler room youtube will get you up to speed on these guys, but from everything I've read and watched, this is how I view them:

Hakeem Butler - best catch radius, biggest athletic freak of the three, suffered from concentration drops (the easiest fix in the drop category, but still drops), has "build up speed" thanks to long stride and is best at separating off the LOS of the three. Decent burst at any size, but especially elite for his - he legitimately resembles Calvin Johnson in stature (but is not him, to be clear). For all the press on his drops, is possibly the most capable of these three at hauling in something truly ridiculous and circus-like. Appears to have good ability to sink his hips for a big guy, and is a beast when going vertical. Had the most plays of 20+ yards of any WR in the big 12 this year. Only one year of good production, and was somehow buried behind Allen Lazard prior to that. Willing blocker, and the best upside pick of the three if you can handle the gamble.

N'Keal Harry - has the best production profile of the three, tested reasonably well athletically, but plays notably slower on tape. Excellent strength, but big questions as to whether he will be able to simply bully DB's in the pros when the coverage gap gets even smaller again. Even in college in a weak conference, is making a lot of his catches extremely contested and winning with strength and size. Would need to go to either a great scheme, or a great QB who can squeeze tight window throws, or hopefully both, to be considered the 1.01-1.02 in my eyes. Not a good route runner yet either. Can also make some crazy circus catches, and is decently physical with RAC. Will be a risky pick given that he will be going top 2 most likely - will likely be an interesting future case study of workout metrics vs. film game/speed vs. production profile.

Kelvin Harmon - tested poorer than the eye test showed on game tape, and could end up being the bargain of the three given his current ADP slide. Was as high as 1.03 in ADP before the combine, and for good reason - is by far the best route runner of the three. He's already proficient at chaining moves together to stack or manipulate his defender, and he understands how to utilise his frame at the catch point. If his combine had been better he'd be what Hakeem has become now - the consensus "next guy" after the supposed locks of Harry and Metcalf. Great head fakes, elite footwork, and catches a mean back shoulder fade. Is extremely strong, but leverages it better than N'keal in my humble opinion. Is a year older than originally thought, which puts a damper on his breakout metrics and cheapens his dominance a touch. Is the least dependant on measurables of the three, thanks to his technique and footwork already showing promise - which is good, because his measurables flat-out sucked. Will be the last of the "big 5" selected given what we're seeing at the moment post-combine, but the potential is there to rise if this is, say, Russell Wilson's new X guy. If an elite QB somehow gets him - someone who could get a connection with him on the back shoulders and fakes - it could be special.

That's my take. Hope that helps.

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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby Ice » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:19 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:39 am
I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?
Harmon is light years better as a route runner, the other two.... not so much.

Harmon has the entire deception package. He cuts well above average. Great footwork to beat press. Subtle head movement in routes that sells the route, outstanding hand use. Best trait might be his look inside then suddenness to a back shoulder fade catch. Relentless at tracking the ball. I like him much better than either Harry or Butler.

His game speed is solid. Think he is a near can't miss prospect with a high floor. Targeting him at 1.5/1.6. (Doubt he gets past 1.4 in the draft I want him)

He is in my top 5 at WR and probably the 2nd safest WR in this class behind AJ Brown.
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby tresskid84 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:20 am

Servo wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:48 pm
Late breakout is concerning, was never able to leapfrog Allen Lazard for targets...who hasn't been anything more than a Prac. Squad player.

I'm sitting at the 1.08 in my 2QB and as of today, I'd probably be comfortable taking him there...but yeah, we'll see how things play out in a few weeks.
lol, I mean, you're not wrong, but also, its not like Lazard's been in the league for 3 years, haha.
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Re: Let's talk... Hakeem Butler

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:51 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:39 am
I have a hard time distinguishimg between Hakeem Butler, Nkeal Harry and Kelvin Harmon. They all seem tall, somewhat slow guys with good college production but questionable separation skills.

Can anyone differentiate them for me?
Butler is non existent in the red zone, which is scary considering his size.
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