Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

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Pac_Eddy
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 am

Anteaters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:42 am I would like to make a public apology to Lamar Jackson.
I think it's a little premature for this just yet. He had a bad first half & a fantastic second half. He's still a weak passer IMO. Good QB, but weak passer.

I love at Marquise Brown is killing it lately and has been so consistent. I was beginning to doubt that the Ravens could support a WR. I think getting Rashod Bateman into the lineup may help Hollywood's numbers a little.

Now if the Ravens can get that defense sorted out...
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Blueboy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:34 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 am
Anteaters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:42 am I would like to make a public apology to Lamar Jackson.
I think it's a little premature for this just yet. He had a bad first half & a fantastic second half. He's still a weak passer IMO. Good QB, but weak passer.

I love at Marquise Brown is killing it lately and has been so consistent. I was beginning to doubt that the Ravens could support a WR. I think getting Rashod Bateman into the lineup may help Hollywood's numbers a little.

Now if the Ravens can get that defense sorted out...
Yeah, it may be too early to fully anoint Lamar as a perfected passer, but he's taken a huge step forward. As a result, so has this offense. It can actually play with versatile NFL schemes downfield, and that's led to Hollywood's role being unleashed.

Brown is a baller, he's also taken steps forward each season of his career. He's a legit great NFL WR, wins in a variety of ways.

12-team SF, PPR, TE premium, 0.25 PPCarry
1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
QB: Mahomes, Fields, Love
RB: Bijan, ETN, Pollard, Achane, Herbert
WR: Kupp, Hill, Metcalf, Ridley, Jeudy, D.J. M, Burks, Hollywood, Wan'Dale
TE: Kyle Pitts, Goedert

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby mild » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:36 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 am I think it's a little premature for this just yet. He had a bad first half & a fantastic second half. He's still a weak passer IMO. Good QB, but weak passer.
I think if you dug into this a bit more, you might be surprised.

This is a new level of passing for him. It's there, mechanically. He's far more comfortable in the pocket this year, he's executing the offense better. His first option is no longer to scramble on passing downs, you can see that that mindset has visibly shifted for him. Teams are daring him to throw, and he's making those throws.

I've always been a big fan of his, as we all know. But this has me excited for him in a whole new way.

But also... weak passer? Sorry, gonna have to check you there. I have never heard someone who threw 37-of-43 for 442 and rushed for another 62, totalling over 500 yards of total offense and 4 throwing touchdowns on Monday Night Football - described as a "weak passer". You've got to save that for the Mitch Trubiskeys and Blake Bortles of the world, lest our describing words lose all meaning...

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Shankopotamus » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:39 am

LFG
12 Team Super-Flex TEP Dynasty
22 CHAMP :dance:
(2019 & 2020 Runner-Up) :wall:


1 QB, 3 RB, 4 WR, Flex, SF, 2 TE

3 DL, 3 LB, 3 DB, 1 Flex IDP


QB- Justin Herbert, Baker Mayfield, Deshaun Watson, Marcus Mariota, Gardner Minshew, Sam Ehlinger
RB- D’Andre Swift, Nick Chubb, Javonte Williams, Cam Akers, Kyren Williams, Jerome Ford, D’Ernest Johnson, Darrell Henderson
WR- DK Metcalf, DJ Moore, Chris Godwin, Jameson Williams, Gabe Davis, Hollywood Brown, Josh Reynolds, Calvin Austin, Laviska Shenault, Kyle Phillips
TE-Mark Andrews, Greg Dulcich, Isaiah Likely, Donald Parham, Tyler Conklin
DL-Danielle Hunter, Nick Bosa, Deforest Buckner, Jonathon Allen
LB- Micah Parsons, Jack Sanborn, Logan Wilson, Cole Holcomb, Nakobe Dean, Brian Asamoah
DB-Jeremy Chinn, Jalen Pitre, Jalen Thompson, Kam Curl, Darrick Forrest
K-Tyler Bass

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:40 am

mild wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:36 am But also... weak passer? Sorry, gonna have to check you there. I have never heard someone who threw 37-of-43 for 442 and rushed for another 62, totalling over 500 yards of total offense and 4 throwing touchdowns on Monday Night Football - described as a "weak passer". You've got to save that for the Mitch Trubiskeys and Blake Bortles of the world, lest our describing words lose all meaning...
Yeah, he had a great half. The rest of his play this season, I'd call his passing weak. A lot of McNabb like throws bouncing off the turf, short of the WR.

I hope his continues to improve. In the mean time, that half doesn't erase the previous years just yet.
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby broncohead » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:04 am

mild wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:36 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 am I think it's a little premature for this just yet. He had a bad first half & a fantastic second half. He's still a weak passer IMO. Good QB, but weak passer.
I think if you dug into this a bit more, you might be surprised.

This is a new level of passing for him. It's there, mechanically. He's far more comfortable in the pocket this year, he's executing the offense better. His first option is no longer to scramble on passing downs, you can see that that mindset has visibly shifted for him. Teams are daring him to throw, and he's making those throws.

I've always been a big fan of his, as we all know. But this has me excited for him in a whole new way.

But also... weak passer? Sorry, gonna have to check you there. I have never heard someone who threw 37-of-43 for 442 and rushed for another 62, totalling over 500 yards of total offense and 4 throwing touchdowns on Monday Night Football - described as a "weak passer". You've got to save that for the Mitch Trubiskeys and Blake Bortles of the world, lest our describing words lose all meaning...
Jackson’s running ability opens up the defense not his passing ability. He’s improved a lot through the air but I’m not confident he’d be able to throw 400+ without his ability to run the ball. Cam Newton threw for 400+ yards too and no one is accusing him of being a good passer.
48 team, 4 copy league, QB, RB, WR, WR, TE, SF, 4 flex
QB - Wentz, Tannehill, Mayfield, Jones, Alex Smith
RB - Chubb, Hunt, Swift, Akers, Henderson, Mostert, Mack, Bowden, Hill
WR - AJ Brown, DJ Moore, Gabriel Davis, Slayton, Hamler, Isabella
TE - Fant, Burton, Firkser, Keene, Okuegbunam
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby steelman » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:01 am

Jackson is far from one of the better passers in the league. His running ability opens up so much for him. He's still an NFL QB who can make throws of course, but I'm still not convinced he's a great pure passer. If you look at a lot of his throws, his Oline gave him a lot of time. It's hard for any DB to cover for more than a couple seconds. Jackson is slow to go through his reads. It takes him longer than the other top QB's in the league.

With that said, he's not among the bottom either. He's pretty good, and in terms of fantasy, he's fantastic. I do think Brown will be more inconsistent than he has been, mostly due to Jackson being inconsistent, but both are super talented for sure.

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Mike11 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 am

I don't think the argument should be is he a great passer, the question should be, at 24 years of age has he continued to improve at passing and shown that he can mature there. He doesn't have to be Mahomes or Rodgers throwing. If he continues to take strides then the Ravens are going to be a wrecking ball. Not to mention he's doing this without a serious running threat outside of himself right now. Did I mention he's still younger than Burrow?

Anyway back to Hollywood. The question of him fading when Batemen comes back seems silly now, Lamar has created in conjunction with Hollywoods skills a very safe floor player who is sitting at WR 6 on the year.
League Established in 2014

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10 Team 20 Keeper League Non ppr

Starters in Bold

QB Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson
RB Chubb, JT Javonte Williams, De’Von Achane
Flex Ekeler, Etienne
WR AJB, Stefon Diggs, Jaylen Waddle Mike Williams, Treylon Burks, Amari Rodgers, Nico Collins, Diontae Johnson, Mingo, Burks, Tillman, Batemen
TE TJ Hockenson Higbee Hurst

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Ice » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:51 am

Mike11 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 am I don't think the argument should be is he a great passer, the question should be, at 24 years of age has he continued to improve at passing and shown that he can mature there. He doesn't have to be Mahomes or Rodgers throwing. If he continues to take strides then the Ravens are going to be a wrecking ball. Not to mention he's doing this without a serious running threat outside of himself right now. Did I mention he's still younger than Burrow?

Anyway back to Hollywood. The question of him fading when Batemen comes back seems silly now, Lamar has created in conjunction with Hollywoods skills a very safe floor player who is sitting at WR 6 on the year.
Lamar may not throw it as pretty as some of the other elites in the game but interestingly enough he is one of two in NFL history that have had a perfect passer rating in multiple games. A perfect rating is 158.3. Last night his rating was 140.5 which is very good completing 86% of his passes. He was outstanding.

M Brown is looking more and more like his cousin Antonio. He is developing into a stud! Great Gene Pool from an athletic perspective.

Their stat lines were almost identical this week.

M Brown 9 / 125 / 2 TD's
A Brown 7 / 124 / 2 TD's
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Sriracha » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:37 pm

Mike11 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 am I don't think the argument should be is he a great passer, the question should be, at 24 years of age has he continued to improve at passing and shown that he can mature there. He doesn't have to be Mahomes or Rodgers throwing. If he continues to take strides then the Ravens are going to be a wrecking ball. Not to mention he's doing this without a serious running threat outside of himself right now. Did I mention he's still younger than Burrow?

Anyway back to Hollywood. The question of him fading when Batemen comes back seems silly now, Lamar has created in conjunction with Hollywoods skills a very safe floor player who is sitting at WR 6 on the year.
Been a huge proponent of Lamar's passing abilities still merging with his ceiling; because of his legs NFL defenses have to give up certain portions of the field or get blown up by his scrambling ability. All he needs to be is a league average passer to put up elite efficiency (which is what we've seen thus far into the season).

But you really can't say that Marquise is still going to be the number 1 WR long term when Bateman comes in. He was still the 2nd most productive receiver behind Mark Andrews last night.

But Lamar is currently 5th (!!) in the NFL in passing yards (and I expect something similar to continue given Baltimore's defense and Lamar making an obviously concerted effort to throw even when he has a clear running lane). There very well could be enough for all 3 of these guys to eat. :thumbup:
Last edited by Sriracha on Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby murphysxm » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:40 pm

Not to derail the thread or take away from a darn impressive game from Lamar, but there will be few teams on his remaining schedule that give him 25 seconds to drop back and find an open reciever. The Colts D was worthless last night
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Mike11 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:16 pm

Sriracha wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:37 pm
Mike11 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 am I don't think the argument should be is he a great passer, the question should be, at 24 years of age has he continued to improve at passing and shown that he can mature there. He doesn't have to be Mahomes or Rodgers throwing. If he continues to take strides then the Ravens are going to be a wrecking ball. Not to mention he's doing this without a serious running threat outside of himself right now. Did I mention he's still younger than Burrow?

Anyway back to Hollywood. The question of him fading when Batemen comes back seems silly now, Lamar has created in conjunction with Hollywoods skills a very safe floor player who is sitting at WR 6 on the year.
Been a huge proponent of Lamar's passing abilities still merging with his ceiling; because of his legs NFL defenses have to give up certain portions of the field or get blown up by his scrambling ability. All he needs to be is a league average passer to put up elite efficiency (which is what we've seen thus far into the season).

But you really can't say that Marquise is still going to be the number 1 WR long term when Bateman comes in. He was still the 2nd most productive receiver behind Mark Andrews last night.

But Lamar is currently 5th (!!) in the NFL in passing yards (and I expect something similar to continue given Baltimore's defense and Lamar making an obviously concerted effort to throw even when he has a clear running lane). There very well could be enough for all 3 of these guys to eat. :thumbup:
I really like Batemen and have him in a couple of leagues because he can be really exciting piece to own, that being said I’m using my eyes to see what Hollywood is doing right now and it seems weird to assume the guy who hasn’t taken a snap and who hasn’t shown he can do it against nfl coverage (yet) is the more likely WR1 just because of people’s offseason evaluation of Hollywood and the fact that they still haven’t come around on him.

This all is dependent on how long Hollywood is with the ravens as well. Hollywood is on pace for 1400 receiving yards and 16 passing TDs (16 game pace). Just like you’re assuming Batemen will come in and get better I think it’s clear we’re starting to possibly see the best version of Hollywood now too and he’s getting open at will and understands how to get open for Lamar.

Again, I really like Batemen but this is a little like people preferring Aiyuk as the shiny new toy over Deebo who got forgotten about a little too quickly.
League Established in 2014

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10 Team 20 Keeper League Non ppr

Starters in Bold

QB Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson
RB Chubb, JT Javonte Williams, De’Von Achane
Flex Ekeler, Etienne
WR AJB, Stefon Diggs, Jaylen Waddle Mike Williams, Treylon Burks, Amari Rodgers, Nico Collins, Diontae Johnson, Mingo, Burks, Tillman, Batemen
TE TJ Hockenson Higbee Hurst

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby PR0v3 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:25 pm

Hollywood was a better prospect than Bateman and is NFL proven. The odds of Bateman usurping him are neglibible.
12 Team .5 PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/RB 20 man rosters, 5 man taxi est. 2018
QB: Dak, Pickett
RB: CMC, Taylor, Gibson, Dillon, Akers, Penny
WR: JJeff, Hollywood, Olave, Toney, Aiyuk, Jeudy, C. Davis, Boyd, C. Samuel,
TE: Njoku, Gesicki
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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby dynastyninja » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:36 pm

PR0v3 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:25 pm Hollywood was a better prospect than Bateman and is NFL proven. The odds of Bateman usurping him are neglibible.
I disagree with the bolded pretty strongly considering they were drafted at almost exactly the same spot in their drafts.

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Re: Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

Postby Ice » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:55 pm

dynastyninja wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:36 pm
PR0v3 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:25 pm Hollywood was a better prospect than Bateman and is NFL proven. The odds of Bateman usurping him are neglibible.
I disagree with the bolded pretty strongly considering they were drafted at almost exactly the same spot in their drafts.
These two are very different type players. Brown has uber elite speed and quickness with ability to shift gears seamlessly. It is showing up weekly.

Bateman looks like he will be a solid possession type player but he has to win with routes and contested catches. I passed him by because I am concerned with this ability against press coverage.

I don't think they are close personally but Brown's draft class will prove to be one of the best first/second round draft classes in decades. The big boy defensive talent in that class really pushed down WR's and we are going to see large numbers of pro bowlers from that class.

Really hard to compare classes but Brown jumped off the page as a human highlight reel. His only knock was his small frame coming out and it is obvious he has been working on his strength.

I don't see this as an either or issue long term but today there is no comparison which is the WR on the Ravens to own.
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