James Washington Value

[ebsteelers]

not sure why people think the steelers would draft a receiver high (round 1) when they have had great success in later rounds.

i have Washington so I'm fine with keeping him unless I get a great offer (which i am not expecting).. but i wouldn't be going looking to acquire him now,

[Ice]

not sure why people think the steelers would draft a receiver high (round 1) when they have had great success in later rounds.

i have Washington so I'm fine with keeping him unless I get a great offer (which i am not expecting).. but i wouldn't be going looking to acquire him now,

Round 2 is High. Think they drafted JuJu and Washington in the 2nd.

[Elroypedro]

It’s nice that JuJu is only 22 but here is something to think about:


JuJu 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 7 TDs

Allen Robinson 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 14 TDs


And A Rob did that on 15 less targets than JuJu with Blake Bortles throwing him the ball and no one close to ABs level taking the best coverage off of him.

I don’t think anyone can look at JuJu’s game and claim he is some kind of elite athlete or technician at the position like Julio, OBJ, AJG, AB, Nuk, Allen, etc. He would not be producing in any situation he is in like those players. Imo his production is much more situational like A Robs. Both are very good WRs, but change one thing about their situation and they could fall back to WR2/3 level for sure. Taking AB away from JuJu isn’t definitely, but could be, that type of change for him and his stats.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

It’s nice that JuJu is only 22 but here is something to think about:


JuJu 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 7 TDs

Allen Robinson 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 14 TDs

Oh nooooo! Another player had 1400 yards at the same age and he didn't keep it up? Juju is doomed!

Sorry bud, that's the worst type of analysis possible (and you're far from the 1st person I've seen it from). Unless you're saying that having 1400 yards at 22 makes you more likely to tear your ACL and experience severe QB drop-off in the future, there's no connection between the 2. Juju showed us he has a really high ceiling at a young age. ARob also showed us that. Due to factors, ARob has yet to get back to that ceiling. It happens. It doesn't mean Juju will follow the same path.

[ebsteelers]

not sure why people think the steelers would draft a receiver high (round 1) when they have had great success in later rounds.

i have Washington so I'm fine with keeping him unless I get a great offer (which i am not expecting).. but i wouldn't be going looking to acquire him now,

Round 2 is High. Think they drafted JuJu and Washington in the 2nd.

late 2nd round guys
60 and 62 and prior to that it was limas sweed 10 years ago. every other wr taken was 3rd round or later.
more than likely if brown is gone they wont be taking a wr in round 2 and it'll be a later round. i think the avg. wr selection over the previous decade for them is round 4.

[Elroypedro]

It’s nice that JuJu is only 22 but here is something to think about:


JuJu 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 7 TDs

Allen Robinson 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 14 TDs

Oh nooooo! Another player had 1400 yards at the same age and he didn't keep it up? Juju is doomed!

Sorry bud, that's the worst type of analysis possible (and you're far from the 1st person I've seen it from). Unless you're saying that having 1400 yards at 22 makes you more likely to tear your ACL and experience severe QB drop-off in the future, there's no connection between the 2. Juju showed us he has a really high ceiling at a young age. ARob also showed us that. Due to factors, ARob has yet to get back to that ceiling. It happens. It doesn't mean Juju will follow the same path.

The point is that JuJu didn’t even come close to A Rob’s 22 age production, despite having a much better QB, a HOF level WR and RB drawing coverage away and LBs and Safety up, and 15 more targets. JuJu doesn’t have elite skills himself, and neither did/does A Rob. They are definitely comparable in that sense. And A Rob FAR outproduced JuJu despite being in a worse situation, and now we can see that someone of A Rob/JuJu’s non-elite skill level can definitely see their production change based on situational changes beyond their control. Whereas the actually elite WRs control their own situations wherever they go, no matter who the QB is, no matter who is across from them taking the coverage away.

[honcho55]

It’s nice that JuJu is only 22 but here is something to think about:


JuJu 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 7 TDs

Allen Robinson 22 year old season -
1400 yds, 14 TDs

Oh nooooo! Another player had 1400 yards at the same age and he didn't keep it up? Juju is doomed!

Sorry bud, that's the worst type of analysis possible (and you're far from the 1st person I've seen it from). Unless you're saying that having 1400 yards at 22 makes you more likely to tear your ACL and experience severe QB drop-off in the future, there's no connection between the 2. Juju showed us he has a really high ceiling at a young age. ARob also showed us that. Due to factors, ARob has yet to get back to that ceiling. It happens. It doesn't mean Juju will follow the same path.

The point is that JuJu didn’t even come close to A Rob’s 22 age production, despite having a much better QB, a HOF level WR and RB drawing coverage away and LBs and Safety up, and 15 more targets. JuJu doesn’t have elite skills himself, and neither did/does A Rob. They are definitely comparable in that sense. And A Rob FAR outproduced JuJu despite being in a worse situation, and now we can see that someone of A Rob/JuJu’s non-elite skill level can definitely see their production change based on situational changes beyond their control. Whereas the actually elite WRs control their own situations wherever they go, no matter who the QB is, no matter who is across from them taking the coverage away.

At a glance, comparing ARob to Juju isnt terrible, but:

DeAndre Hopkins: age on rookie year kickoff: 21y 5m
Rookie year: 52-802-2 118.2 pts
2nd year: 76-1210-6 195 pts
3rd year: 111-1521-11 273.6 pts

Juju: age on rookie year kick: 20y 9m
Rookie year: 58-917-7 162.7 pts
2nd year: 111-1426-7 240.1 pts
3rd year: 114-1770-14 318 pts

Just kidding on jujus 3rd year there, but its kinda crazy how linear and congruent the progress trends are, 77-78 pts between each data point.

Its also kinda fun that Hopkins came up under a stud in Johnson, and Juju came up under AB.

But my main point is what he's doing at such a young age. I went back 20 years, an average of about 3 guys a year <23 years old post 900 yards. Juju is the 12th in 20 years to have two. Im fairly sure he will join Randy Moss and Mike Evans as the only ones to do it 3 times.

Hes the youngest ever to reach 100 catches in a year. All the guys that are close are HoFers.

Theres only 4 better fantasy seasons than jujus 2018 that I can find, for someone so young, and thats Moss twice, OBJ and Gordon.

This could of course all mean nothing, but I take it as a sign of things to come with this guy. Sorry to continue to derail a james Washington thread haha

[Elroypedro]

Oh nooooo! Another player had 1400 yards at the same age and he didn't keep it up? Juju is doomed!

Sorry bud, that's the worst type of analysis possible (and you're far from the 1st person I've seen it from). Unless you're saying that having 1400 yards at 22 makes you more likely to tear your ACL and experience severe QB drop-off in the future, there's no connection between the 2. Juju showed us he has a really high ceiling at a young age. ARob also showed us that. Due to factors, ARob has yet to get back to that ceiling. It happens. It doesn't mean Juju will follow the same path.

The point is that JuJu didn’t even come close to A Rob’s 22 age production, despite having a much better QB, a HOF level WR and RB drawing coverage away and LBs and Safety up, and 15 more targets. JuJu doesn’t have elite skills himself, and neither did/does A Rob. They are definitely comparable in that sense. And A Rob FAR outproduced JuJu despite being in a worse situation, and now we can see that someone of A Rob/JuJu’s non-elite skill level can definitely see their production change based on situational changes beyond their control. Whereas the actually elite WRs control their own situations wherever they go, no matter who the QB is, no matter who is across from them taking the coverage away.

At a glance, comparing ARob to Juju isnt terrible, but:

DeAndre Hopkins: age on rookie year kickoff: 21y 5m
Rookie year: 52-802-2 118.2 pts
2nd year: 76-1210-6 195 pts
3rd year: 111-1521-11 273.6 pts

Juju: age on rookie year kick: 20y 9m
Rookie year: 58-917-7 162.7 pts
2nd year: 111-1426-7 240.1 pts
3rd year: 114-1770-14 318 pts

Just kidding on jujus 3rd year there, but its kinda crazy how linear and congruent the progress trends are, 77-78 pts between each data point.

Its also kinda fun that Hopkins came up under a stud in Johnson, and Juju came up under AB.

But my main point is what he's doing at such a young age. I went back 20 years, an average of about 3 guys a year <23 years old post 900 yards. Juju is the 12th in 20 years to have two. Im fairly sure he will join Randy Moss and Mike Evans as the only ones to do it 3 times.

Hes the youngest ever to reach 100 catches in a year. All the guys that are close are HoFers.

Theres only 4 better fantasy seasons than jujus 2018 that I can find, for someone so young, and thats Moss twice, OBJ and Gordon.

This could of course all mean nothing, but I take it as a sign of things to come with this guy. Sorry to continue to derail a james Washington thread haha

Biggest difference is JuJu is not an elite athletic or technical talent. He isn’t Gordon, OBJ, Moss, and he isn’t Nuk, AB, Julio. He has relied much more on his situation.

Two other 22 year old guys who had as good or better seasons than JuJu that I can think of immediately were A Rob(who just crushed JuJu’s numbers) and Anquan Boldin, who barely surpassed them his rookie year at 22. Neither has produced as well since because of situational changes because they weren’t elite talents that could overcome their situations, like Nuk. JuJu isn’t either, and he has been in the absolute perfect situation until now, and that situation is just getting worse now. His QB is aging, his HOF level WR1 is gone and won’t be pulling all of the coverage from him, the RB and OL coaches(the two best coaches on the whole Pitt staff), departed this offseason, which could really hurt the run game and free up LBs and the Safety from having to come up as they have the last few years. So much is looking iffy for JuJu now, I think he regresses.

And on topic, as a James Washington owner, I think he obviously gets a bump up because his own personal situation improves, but he is in a WAY worse situation next year than JuJu has been these last two years, so we should all temper our expectations for him for sure. I’d be happy if he were a WR3/Flex option this coming year

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I love how we're to the point that having 1400 yards at a young age is now bad, because one guy did it once and then he wasn't as good later.

[honcho55]

The point is that JuJu didn’t even come close to A Rob’s 22 age production, despite having a much better QB, a HOF level WR and RB drawing coverage away and LBs and Safety up, and 15 more targets. JuJu doesn’t have elite skills himself, and neither did/does A Rob. They are definitely comparable in that sense. And A Rob FAR outproduced JuJu despite being in a worse situation, and now we can see that someone of A Rob/JuJu’s non-elite skill level can definitely see their production change based on situational changes beyond their control. Whereas the actually elite WRs control their own situations wherever they go, no matter who the QB is, no matter who is across from them taking the coverage away.

At a glance, comparing ARob to Juju isnt terrible, but:

DeAndre Hopkins: age on rookie year kickoff: 21y 5m
Rookie year: 52-802-2 118.2 pts
2nd year: 76-1210-6 195 pts
3rd year: 111-1521-11 273.6 pts

Juju: age on rookie year kick: 20y 9m
Rookie year: 58-917-7 162.7 pts
2nd year: 111-1426-7 240.1 pts
3rd year: 114-1770-14 318 pts

Just kidding on jujus 3rd year there, but its kinda crazy how linear and congruent the progress trends are, 77-78 pts between each data point.

Its also kinda fun that Hopkins came up under a stud in Johnson, and Juju came up under AB.

But my main point is what he's doing at such a young age. I went back 20 years, an average of about 3 guys a year <23 years old post 900 yards. Juju is the 12th in 20 years to have two. Im fairly sure he will join Randy Moss and Mike Evans as the only ones to do it 3 times.

Hes the youngest ever to reach 100 catches in a year. All the guys that are close are HoFers.

Theres only 4 better fantasy seasons than jujus 2018 that I can find, for someone so young, and thats Moss twice, OBJ and Gordon.

This could of course all mean nothing, but I take it as a sign of things to come with this guy. Sorry to continue to derail a james Washington thread haha

Biggest difference is JuJu is not an elite athletic or technical talent. He isn’t Gordon, OBJ, Moss, and he isn’t Nuk, AB, Julio. He has relied much more on his situation.

Two other 22 year old guys who had as good or better seasons than JuJu that I can think of immediately were A Rob(who just crushed JuJu’s numbers) and Anquan Boldin, who barely surpassed them his rookie year at 22. Neither has produced as well since because of situational changes because they weren’t elite talents that could overcome their situations, like Nuk. JuJu isn’t either, and he has been in the absolute perfect situation until now, and that situation is just getting worse now. His QB is aging, his HOF level WR1 is gone and won’t be pulling all of the coverage from him, the RB and OL coaches(the two best coaches on the whole Pitt staff), departed this offseason, which could really hurt the run game and free up LBs and the Safety from having to come up as they have the last few years. So much is looking iffy for JuJu now, I think he regresses.

And on topic, as a James Washington owner, I think he obviously gets a bump up because his own personal situation improves, but he is in a WAY worse situation next year than JuJu has been these last two years, so we should all temper our expectations for him for sure. I’d be happy if he were a WR3/Flex option this coming year

not mad at this take, has some sound logical backing. Just a couple nitpicky things. Boldin was about a month shy of 23 that year. Juju was several months shy of 22 this last year. his is the difference between, a few guys a year do it, and only a handful have ever done it.

I will agree as it stands if Im going to pick whos more purely talented, Ill take Hopkins, Julio, AB, Moss. My arguement is basically, Juju should continue to grow.

Also I wont be blown away if he regresses in 2019, I do think he will be a top 10ish guy for a good while though, with upside to blow up.

[wickerkat1212]

I got Washington off the WW last year, so holding and hoping for WR3 or higher.

[Elroypedro]

At a glance, comparing ARob to Juju isnt terrible, but:

DeAndre Hopkins: age on rookie year kickoff: 21y 5m
Rookie year: 52-802-2 118.2 pts
2nd year: 76-1210-6 195 pts
3rd year: 111-1521-11 273.6 pts

Juju: age on rookie year kick: 20y 9m
Rookie year: 58-917-7 162.7 pts
2nd year: 111-1426-7 240.1 pts
3rd year: 114-1770-14 318 pts

Just kidding on jujus 3rd year there, but its kinda crazy how linear and congruent the progress trends are, 77-78 pts between each data point.

Its also kinda fun that Hopkins came up under a stud in Johnson, and Juju came up under AB.

But my main point is what he's doing at such a young age. I went back 20 years, an average of about 3 guys a year <23 years old post 900 yards. Juju is the 12th in 20 years to have two. Im fairly sure he will join Randy Moss and Mike Evans as the only ones to do it 3 times.

Hes the youngest ever to reach 100 catches in a year. All the guys that are close are HoFers.

Theres only 4 better fantasy seasons than jujus 2018 that I can find, for someone so young, and thats Moss twice, OBJ and Gordon.

This could of course all mean nothing, but I take it as a sign of things to come with this guy. Sorry to continue to derail a james Washington thread haha

Biggest difference is JuJu is not an elite athletic or technical talent. He isn’t Gordon, OBJ, Moss, and he isn’t Nuk, AB, Julio. He has relied much more on his situation.

Two other 22 year old guys who had as good or better seasons than JuJu that I can think of immediately were A Rob(who just crushed JuJu’s numbers) and Anquan Boldin, who barely surpassed them his rookie year at 22. Neither has produced as well since because of situational changes because they weren’t elite talents that could overcome their situations, like Nuk. JuJu isn’t either, and he has been in the absolute perfect situation until now, and that situation is just getting worse now. His QB is aging, his HOF level WR1 is gone and won’t be pulling all of the coverage from him, the RB and OL coaches(the two best coaches on the whole Pitt staff), departed this offseason, which could really hurt the run game and free up LBs and the Safety from having to come up as they have the last few years. So much is looking iffy for JuJu now, I think he regresses.

And on topic, as a James Washington owner, I think he obviously gets a bump up because his own personal situation improves, but he is in a WAY worse situation next year than JuJu has been these last two years, so we should all temper our expectations for him for sure. I’d be happy if he were a WR3/Flex option this coming year

not mad at this take, has some sound logical backing. Just a couple nitpicky things. Boldin was about a month shy of 23 that year. Juju was several months shy of 22 this last year. his is the difference between, a few guys a year do it, and only a handful have ever done it.

I will agree as it stands if Im going to pick whos more purely talented, Ill take Hopkins, Julio, AB, Moss. My arguement is basically, Juju should continue to grow.

Also I wont be blown away if he regresses in 2019, I do think he will be a top 10ish guy for a good while though, with upside to blow up.

Yeah that’s all fair

[Kcarr]

I love how we're to the point that having 1400 yards at a young age is now bad, because one guy did it once and then he wasn't as good later.

I don't think the point was to say one player had that good of a season and then dropped off so all players who have that good of a season will. That seems like the most extreme takeaway from his statement. A much more reasonable takeaway would be to assume every young player gets statistically better may be overly optimistic, changes in situations or just opponents adjusting can lead to a drop off.

[Kcarr]

I love how we're to the point that having 1400 yards at a young age is now bad, because one guy did it once and then he wasn't as good later.

I don't think the point was to say one player had that good of a season and then dropped off so all players who have that good of a season will. That seems like the most extreme takeaway from his statement. A much more reasonable takeaway would be to assume every young player gets statistically better may be overly optimistic, changes in situations or just opponents adjusting can lead to a drop off.

[Ice]

not sure why people think the steelers would draft a receiver high (round 1) when they have had great success in later rounds.

i have Washington so I'm fine with keeping him unless I get a great offer (which i am not expecting).. but i wouldn't be going looking to acquire him now,

Round 2 is High. Think they drafted JuJu and Washington in the 2nd.

late 2nd round guys
60 and 62 and prior to that it was limas sweed 10 years ago. every other wr taken was 3rd round or later.
more than likely if brown is gone they wont be taking a wr in round 2 and it'll be a later round. i think the avg. wr selection over the previous decade for them is round 4.

Draft is 7 rounds. By NFL standards any round 2 pick is considered a high pick. In fact, Round 3 picks are also considered high. This isn't fantasy. The NFL deals with 22 positions plus special teams and when they miss on picks in the first 3 round it hurts.

Carry On.