DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Krypto_King » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:57 pm

ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:50 am
Krypto_King wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:14 pm
M-Dub wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:50 pm
I’m not sure if he’s the 1.01 or not, but the whole “route running” knock is silly. He’s 21 years old. He can learn how to run routes. You can’t teach these smaller, older, slower, more polished route-runners how to be an athletic freak like Metcalf.
can you name some of these players that learned to become great route runners after entering the NFL?

All my peaks behind the curtain to the NFL are more of the, "wtf are you doing?" from coaches rather than some sort of nurturing, developmental, teaching atmosphere.
DT would be one example. He was considered to have a very limited route tree coming in. He didn't become a great route runner, but he became a good enough route runner to take advantage of his great athleticism.

Becoming a great route runner is not likely for Metcalf, but he only needs to be adequate to be a really good WR. He's still a huge flop chance for 1.01, but the ceiling is really enticing.
cheers, that's could be one. I'll say from what I've seen they didn't seem to even give DK a chance to do more. His usage looks super basic to me.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Krypto_King » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:11 pm

mild wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:55 am

"NFL players don't become better at their technique from coaching (because it is tough love)" is a freakin' wiiiiiild take man. Do you think they watch hours upon hours of film and do 1-on-1 drills with DB's for giggles?
I'm not saying they don't get coached, but if you have a bleep year, they move on to the next guy. I'm talking long-term, multi-year development, that is a very rare thing. You can stick if you're a high pick or play special teams, the rest it is adios.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby XxBallMeBlazerxX » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:19 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm
Vcize wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:07 pm
Consensus: This year has no Zeke/Barkley level player
Xlur8ed: Guys stop saying this guy is a Barkley level player!!
Consensus: Metcalf is probably the 1.1 because he has huge upside, but there is lots of risk with him too
Xlur8ed: Guys stop saying he's a can't miss prospect with no risk!!
So basically how every discussion on this forum goes.


Jarvis Landry had a worse 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle than Metcalf, fyi...
Jarvis Landry ran more than 2 routes and didn’t rely on athleticism to win matchups.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby DynoScout » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:36 pm

DK may the 1.01 for most people, but he can be avoided by side-stepping three feet to the side...WHOOSH, there goes DK

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby ArrylT » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:25 pm

DynoScout wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:36 pm
DK may the 1.01 for most people, but he can be avoided by side-stepping three feet to the side...WHOOSH, there goes DK
:lol: :lol: :lol:

If DK goes to the Raiders I definitely hope all the opposing DBs follow that advice. :ewink:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Jigga94 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:51 pm

Can he run routes that have a crease, turn or fold in them? Can he run more efficiently through cones than he did the other day? Will he be able to overcome those cones turned players one day?

Find out this September, right here, on overreaction nation!!
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Luck, Baker, Tannehill
RB: Sony, D. Freeman, Penny, Ekeler, K. Dixon, Hines, Samuels, CJA, Ware
WR: Tyreek, Julio, Cooks, D.J. Moore, C. Davis, MVS, Hamilton, Washington, ESB
TE: Henry, Njoku, Herndon, Hooper
2019 Picks: 3.08, 3.10, 6...

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Baker, Cam, Jimmy G, Foles
RB: CMC, Kerryon, A. Jones, Hunt, J. Samuels, M. Brown
WR: D.J. Moore, Landry, Mike Will, P. Campbell, Pettis, Fuller, MVS, Hamilton, ESB, Gallup, M. Lee
TE: Henry, Hockenson, Herndon, Andrews
2020: 1, 1, 2, 3

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:05 pm

Jigga94 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:51 pm
Can he run routes that have a crease, turn or fold in them? Can he run more efficiently through cones than he did the other day? Will he be able to overcome those cones turned players one day?

Find out this September, right here, on overreaction nation!!
Yep. Long-term, these are significant questions. Now, Metcalf can certainly be valuable as a vertical threat, redzone threat and a jumpball receiver. But, you still have to do more to be a team's #1 WR. We'll see if he can improve his routes and separation skills, though it wouldn't be the first time a big, speedy receiver didn't.

If I had the 1.01, I'd be trading down or trying to acquire a young, breakout candidate like Golladay or someone.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:29 pm

I ain't touching Metcalf earlier than the 2nd round with that agility score, and the game-tape confirming it. He's a raw TE pretending to be a raw WR, which might be okay if he were actually playing TE.
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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Ice » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:41 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:29 pm
I ain't touching Metcalf earlier than the 2nd round with that agility score, and the game-tape confirming it. He's a raw TE pretending to be a raw WR, which might be okay if he were actually playing TE.
Hahahaha

Like he is going to last in ANY Rookie draft in the USA until the 2nd round..... Guess you play in a rare 4 team league..... :D

Nice post though, that is really telling everyone your thoughts! :clap: :clap:

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:57 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:29 pm
I ain't touching Metcalf earlier than the 2nd round with that agility score, and the game-tape confirming it. He's a raw TE pretending to be a raw WR, which might be okay if he were actually playing TE.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Such a pretentious statement, especially for you. How are you not an NFL scout already? I really wish there was a stroking C@ck emoji right now. Show your BIG BOARD right now big boy. :lol: Seriously though, I'm half pissed, and "taking the piss" as the Brits say, but that's kind of ludicrous considering this class and the fact he slipped up a bit on a 1 take 180 degree turn on his 3 cone. Nobody was blasting DK like this before the combine, now everybody is an expert on how he's no good.

It's kind of a joke around here how people get so grandiose. I have no idea how DK will do, and I still have concerns about the injuries, but not the talent, and I thought he'd run a 4.40-4.45. He blew it away. He's 6 foot 4 and 230. He has a 40 plus inch vertical. Just that alone confirms he's a first rounder based on his tape. He can bully DB's, and can outrun 90 percent of them on fly's and posts. He can out jump them inside the 20, on top off being 4 inches taller AT LEAST, than most of them in the red zone. Let that sink in. SO he's not Jerry Rice as a route runner. Big deal. He is highly influential to an NFL offense day 1. He can score TD's, and make big plays. That's pretty much a given. God forbid he ever starts to refine a route tree.

I don't have a bunch of early picks, but man, you have to take a shot on this guy in this class. He's humble, too, from what i've seen. Mid second? Come on. IMO, there are a lot of guys around here that are salty that there all of a sudden "could be" a premier player in this draft. Sure, he could be Kevin White, but DK was widely regarded as a first round pick, and now people are all of a sudden coming out with "2nd round" blah blah, after he destroyed a couple drills in the combine. Where was everybody on this a few months ago? :think:

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:01 am

FantasyFreak wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:57 pm
ninotoreS wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:29 pm
I ain't touching Metcalf earlier than the 2nd round with that agility score, and the game-tape confirming it. He's a raw TE pretending to be a raw WR, which might be okay if he were actually playing TE.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Such a pretentious statement, especially for you. How are you not an NFL scout already? I really wish there was a stroking C@ck emoji right now. Show your BIG BOARD right now big boy. :lol: Seriously though, I'm half pissed, and "taking the piss" as the Brits say, but that's kind of ludicrous considering this class and the fact he slipped up a bit on a 1 take 180 degree turn on his 3 cone. Nobody was blasting DK like this before the combine, now everybody is an expert on how he's no good.

It's kind of a joke around here how people get so grandiose. I have no idea how DK will do, and I still have concerns about the injuries, but not the talent, and I thought he'd run a 4.40-4.45. He blew it away. He's 6 foot 4 and 230. He has a 40 plus inch vertical. Just that alone confirms he's a first rounder based on his tape. He can bully DB's, and can outrun 90 percent of them on fly's and posts. He can out jump them inside the 20, on top off being 4 inches taller AT LEAST, than most of them in the red zone. Let that sink in. SO he's not Jerry Rice as a route runner. Big deal. He is highly influential to an NFL offense day 1. He can score TD's, and make big plays. That's pretty much a given. God forbid he ever starts to refine a route tree.
How many really good X receivers can you think of today that aren't at least good route runners? I can't think of any.

I think you're right that he can provide value on his raw talent alone. How many times have we seen Tyreek Hill just run a 9 right past a DB with a 10 yard cushion? It'll happen. But, long-term you have to get better at running routes. I think it's very fair to question whether:

1. Whether Metcalf has the ability to run routes well.
2. Whether Metcalf has the ability to separate from receivers on non-fly routes

I would definitely bet against Metcalf becoming a star WR by just running fly routes all day. I watched his tape against LSU and Greedy Williams shut that down with EASE.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Ice » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:53 am

My take is for those that don't think he can run routes you should never actually analyze players because you have no clue what an effective route even is in the first place. I can agree on the fact he is a bit raw due to system but when a pro scout break's down the tape they will see plenty. Anyone that thinks a route is some static 9 doesn't have a clue.

Metcalf not only shows gear changes in routes, he shows the ability to eat up the cushion on a DB in a flash putting them on thier heals as he stops or cuts, and for sure, even a blind man can see he can beat the defender with vertical ability at the end of the route when needed,. Perhaps most impressive is his ability to track the ball at speed and effortlessly adjust the route to remain in optimal position.

Coaches are salivating for a player like this and anyone who doesn't believe that is an idiot.

I have heard a lot of nonsense on his route running but have yet to see any of you show on tape he sucks. I broke down 6 plays showing what he can do in routes, If you think they are bad find those same 6 plays and break them down on the weak areas.

Instead of being a part of random group think; actually study the tape for yourself and at least demonstrate on tape why he can't run routes.

Hell,just take the combine tape on routes and the gauntlet and analyze those. His balance and fluidity jumps off the page in gauntlet. Metcalf stayed on the line and effortlessly caught the ball turning both directions. with his hands.

NOW go compare that to N'Keal Harry who was all over the place and let the ball get into his body. Many in fantasy have this player as #1 WR and his combine tape is HORRIFYING in comparison.

D.K. was my top WR prospect way before the combine and he not only confirmed it, he further separated from all but a couple. He is a lock week 1 starter in the league if he can learn the playbook.

No doubt, just like any WR that has ever played the game, he won't win every route but he will win a ton of routes against single and double coverage because he can do things others simply can't.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:27 am

Ice wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:53 am
My take is for those that don't think he can run routes you should never actually analyze players because you have no clue what an effective route even is in the first place. I can agree on the fact he is a bit raw due to system but when a pro scout break's down the tape they will see plenty. Anyone that thinks a route is some static 9 doesn't have a clue.

Metcalf not only shows gear changes in routes, he shows the ability to eat up the cushion on a DB in a flash putting them on thier heals as he stops or cuts, and for sure, even a blind man can see he can beat the defender with vertical ability at the end of the route when needed,. Perhaps most impressive is his ability to track the ball at speed and effortlessly adjust the route to remain in optimal position.

Coaches are salivating for a player like this and anyone who doesn't believe that is an idiot.

I have heard a lot of nonsense on his route running but have yet to see any of you show on tape he sucks. I broke down 6 plays showing what he can do in routes, If you think they are bad find those same 6 plays and break them down on the weak areas.

Instead of being a part of random group think; actually study the tape for yourself and at least demonstrate on tape why he can't run routes.

Hell,just take the combine tape on routes and the gauntlet and analyze those. His balance and fluidity jumps off the page in gauntlet. Metcalf stayed on the line and effortlessly caught the ball turning both directions. with his hands.

NOW go compare that to N'Keal Harry who was all over the place and let the ball get into his body. Many in fantasy have this player as #1 WR and his combine tape is HORRIFYING in comparison.

D.K. was my top WR prospect way before the combine and he not only confirmed it, he further separated from all but a couple. He is a lock week 1 starter in the league if he can learn the playbook.

No doubt, just like any WR that has ever played the game, he won't win every route but he will win a ton of routes against single and double coverage because he can do things others simply can't.
Nobody is questioning whether he can eat cushion or take the top off a defense. A fly route is just one route. What other routes has he proven he can run effectively and get separation on? He's not just a raw route runner in the sense that he runs a very limited route tree. He's raw in the sense that his technical ability as a WR is poor. He's not coming in to the league like a Michael Thomas, who had the technical ability mastered and could win with footwork and IQ.

The LSU game illustrates this perfectly. He struggled heavily getting space against a DB who could match his speed and take away his strength.

So yes, he can run a route. A 9 is a route. He can run a few others. But, he's not advanced enough right now to project as a great #1 WR. Top on the concerns about his stop/start speed and change of direction, and there's absolutely concern about it.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby FantasyFreak » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:37 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:27 am
Ice wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:53 am
My take is for those that don't think he can run routes you should never actually analyze players because you have no clue what an effective route even is in the first place. I can agree on the fact he is a bit raw due to system but when a pro scout break's down the tape they will see plenty. Anyone that thinks a route is some static 9 doesn't have a clue.

Metcalf not only shows gear changes in routes, he shows the ability to eat up the cushion on a DB in a flash putting them on thier heals as he stops or cuts, and for sure, even a blind man can see he can beat the defender with vertical ability at the end of the route when needed,. Perhaps most impressive is his ability to track the ball at speed and effortlessly adjust the route to remain in optimal position.

Coaches are salivating for a player like this and anyone who doesn't believe that is an idiot.

I have heard a lot of nonsense on his route running but have yet to see any of you show on tape he sucks. I broke down 6 plays showing what he can do in routes, If you think they are bad find those same 6 plays and break them down on the weak areas.

Instead of being a part of random group think; actually study the tape for yourself and at least demonstrate on tape why he can't run routes.

Hell,just take the combine tape on routes and the gauntlet and analyze those. His balance and fluidity jumps off the page in gauntlet. Metcalf stayed on the line and effortlessly caught the ball turning both directions. with his hands.

NOW go compare that to N'Keal Harry who was all over the place and let the ball get into his body. Many in fantasy have this player as #1 WR and his combine tape is HORRIFYING in comparison.

D.K. was my top WR prospect way before the combine and he not only confirmed it, he further separated from all but a couple. He is a lock week 1 starter in the league if he can learn the playbook.

No doubt, just like any WR that has ever played the game, he won't win every route but he will win a ton of routes against single and double coverage because he can do things others simply can't.
Nobody is questioning whether he can eat cushion or take the top off a defense. A fly route is just one route. What other routes has he proven he can run effectively and get separation on? He's not just a raw route runner in the sense that he runs a very limited route tree. He's raw in the sense that his technical ability as a WR is poor. He's not coming in to the league like a Michael Thomas, who had the technical ability mastered and could win with footwork and IQ.

The LSU game illustrates this perfectly. He struggled heavily getting space against a DB who could match his speed and take away his strength.

So yes, he can run a route. A 9 is a route. He can run a few others. But, he's not advanced enough right now to project as a great #1 WR. Top on the concerns about his stop/start speed and change of direction, and there's absolutely concern about it.
From what I saw, he had 3 bad drops. He got open on short routes vs Williams, and dropped the ball. He also had a Defensive pass interference vs Williams on a deep route. He also had several others where he got open but no throw. His 3 for 37 looks like it could have been doubled without a few bad concentration drops on short routes where he got open. I think that's more of an issue (drops) in this game than route running. He clearly beat Greedy more times than the stat like shows.

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Re: DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

Postby Ice » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:52 am

He has tape on other routes if you take like the time to analyze. Greedy is certainly a top prospect but he won't beat D.K at the next level every play and you know it if you understand the game. He was open plenty. Greedy is a near lock top 10. It is naive thinking a college offense is anything close to the Pro game. D.K has much to learn as does Greedy for that matter but if you think he can't or won't you have bias built in IMO.

Go and breakdown N'Keal Harry, AJ Brown and D.K Metcalf 's combine drills.

Brown is considered a solid a route runner and performed well at the combine but he was no better than D.K Metcalf and certainly not as athletic. When you compare that to N.Keal Harry you will see glaring differences.

My guess is Harry hurt his draft stock considerably while the other two help theirs. DK's Gauntlet was actually the best of these and his routes were as crisp as Brown's in a much a more athletic frame.

Never said he was a technician like Thomas but even you are force to compare him to great ones. Interesting..... BTW, Thomas has the most accurate QB on the planet feeding him. he doesn't have to get open by more than a hand so don't believe he runs perfect routes either.

Your eyes are lying to you and my take is you are lying to yourself if you honestly believe this player won't get better. Way too much nuance in his game to really believe he won't get better. His ability is off the charts good as in top 5 quality in a few years as he develops.

I do get their is always risk with players and I have missed on a few but this WR compares to way too many absolute studs at this level to really worry about. While his concentration is good, I think that will get better at the next level as well. D.K.'s only legit weakness is he does lose focus when confused it seems but experience and maturity should help that. He drops a few easy ones but makes many incredible catches. ( One reason I comp him close to T.O. )

BTW even if he masters only 4 routes he will be dominate in this league and will get a ton of targets. His back shoulder ability will improve by leaps and bounds with that Vertical and ability shown on tape to turn in route and catch the ball going backward He flashes Odell good in that area.


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