DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

[Vcize]

I ain't touching Metcalf earlier than the 2nd round with that agility score, and the game-tape confirming it. He's a raw TE pretending to be a raw WR, which might be okay if he were actually playing TE.

Excuse me while I flip the eff out!

Why are you so mad.

Agility score is the testing number for WRs I weigh the most heavily, and historical data supports it. Ofc I'm down on Metcalf.

4.6 40? Not great, but there are recent precedents. So-so jump scores? I can point to several current great pro WRs that were average or below average there. Height? Numerous examples of dominant WRs that don't check that box.

4th percentile agility score?

I'm coming up with a blank, man. You got some examples, I'd truly love to see them and be educated.

Pocket statue Tom Brady had a better agility score than DK. TEs packing 25 more pounds test better.

I didn't say I wouldn't draft DK, just that I won't spend friggin 1.1 on a prospect with some of the stiffest hips I've ever seen on a WR being discussed as a first round pick.

People weren't madly in love with DK to this extent before he sprinted and jumped in spandex. That alone should worry an objective observer with knowledge of draft history.

3 cone
Randy Moss - 7.19
Tom Brady - 7.20
Dalvin Cook - 7.27
Anquan Boldin - 7.35
DK Metcalf - 7.38
Steve Smith - 7.44
Chad Johnson - 7.57

Short Shuttle
Davante Adams - 4.30
Anquan Boldin - 4.33
Tom Brady - 4.35
DeAndre Hopkins - 4.50

[HawkeyeState]

Shouldn't you be comparing the prospects above to Metcalf by Agility Score not by 3 cone/SS raw times?
About the only one that comes close in that bad of a percentile agility score is Anquan Boldin.
And not sure it does much good to compare across position groups as their percentiles I believe are based on positions.

Anyway...

3 cone
Randy Moss - 7.19 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out
Tom Brady - 7.20 37th Percentile Agility Score
Dalvin Cook - 7.27 13th Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 7.35 9th Percentile Agility Score
DK Metcalf - 7.38 4th Percentile Agility Score
Steve Smith - 7.44 87th Percentile Agility Score
Chad Johnson - 7.57 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out

Short Shuttle
Davante Adams - 4.30 62nd Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 4.33 9th Percentile Agility Score
Tom Brady - 4.35 37th Percentile Agility Score
DeAndre Hopkins - 4.50 36th Percentile Agility Score

[Wizard]

So will DK have a "pro-day" to try and show his 3 cone and shuttle are better than what he did at the combine or are "pro-days" just a QB thing?

[Hottoddies]

So will DK have a "pro-day" to try and show his 3 cone and shuttle are better than what he did at the combine or are "pro-days" just a QB thing?

Players of all positions will have an opportunity to preform at pro days if they chose to.

[Vcize]

Shouldn't you be comparing the prospects above to Metcalf by Agility Score not by 3 cone/SS raw times?
About the only one that comes close in that bad of a percentile agility score is Anquan Boldin.
And not sure it does much good to compare across position groups as their percentiles I believe are based on positions.

Anyway...

3 cone
Randy Moss - 7.19 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out
Tom Brady - 7.20 37th Percentile Agility Score
Dalvin Cook - 7.27 13th Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 7.35 9th Percentile Agility Score
DK Metcalf - 7.38 4th Percentile Agility Score
Steve Smith - 7.44 87th Percentile Agility Score
Chad Johnson - 7.57 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out

Short Shuttle
Davante Adams - 4.30 62nd Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 4.33 9th Percentile Agility Score
Tom Brady - 4.35 37th Percentile Agility Score
DeAndre Hopkins - 4.50 36th Percentile Agility Score

Well most of them skipped at least one of the agility drills that they knew they would perform poorly in so their agility score is incomplete. How are you getting agility score for guys like Hopkins who didn't run the 3-cone?

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Shouldn't you be comparing the prospects above to Metcalf by Agility Score not by 3 cone/SS raw times?
About the only one that comes close in that bad of a percentile agility score is Anquan Boldin.
And not sure it does much good to compare across position groups as their percentiles I believe are based on positions.

Anyway...

3 cone
Randy Moss - 7.19 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out
Tom Brady - 7.20 37th Percentile Agility Score
Dalvin Cook - 7.27 13th Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 7.35 9th Percentile Agility Score
DK Metcalf - 7.38 4th Percentile Agility Score
Steve Smith - 7.44 87th Percentile Agility Score
Chad Johnson - 7.57 Unknown Agility Score and don't feel like doing the math to figure out

Short Shuttle
Davante Adams - 4.30 62nd Percentile Agility Score
Anquan Boldin - 4.33 9th Percentile Agility Score
Tom Brady - 4.35 37th Percentile Agility Score
DeAndre Hopkins - 4.50 36th Percentile Agility Score

Well most of them skipped at least one of the agility drills that they knew they would perform poorly in so their agility score is incomplete. How are you getting agility score for guys like Hopkins who didn't run the 3-cone?

From what I can find he ran a 3cone at his pro day and the shuttle at the combine. Seems weird but idk?

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage ... ns&i=10231
http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dspro ... &genpos=WR


Also this
http://www.tonysoftli.com/player/deandre-hopkins/

AGILITY TESTS

4.56 in the 40-yard dash…1.59 10-yard dash…2.53 20-yard dash…4.15 20-yard shuttle…

11.20 60-yard shuttle…6.70 three-cone drill…36 ½-inch vertical jump…10’4” broad jump… Bench pressed 225 pounds 16 times…32 ¼-inch arm length…10-inch hands…76 ½-inch wingspan.

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

My take is for those that don't think he can run routes you should never actually analyze players because you have no clue what an effective route even is in the first place. I can agree on the fact he is a bit raw due to system but when a pro scout break's down the tape they will see plenty. Anyone that thinks a route is some static 9 doesn't have a clue.

Metcalf not only shows gear changes in routes, he shows the ability to eat up the cushion on a DB in a flash putting them on thier heals as he stops or cuts, and for sure, even a blind man can see he can beat the defender with vertical ability at the end of the route when needed,. Perhaps most impressive is his ability to track the ball at speed and effortlessly adjust the route to remain in optimal position.

Coaches are salivating for a player like this and anyone who doesn't believe that is an idiot.

I have heard a lot of nonsense on his route running but have yet to see any of you show on tape he sucks. I broke down 6 plays showing what he can do in routes, If you think they are bad find those same 6 plays and break them down on the weak areas.

Instead of being a part of random group think; actually study the tape for yourself and at least demonstrate on tape why he can't run routes.

Hell,just take the combine tape on routes and the gauntlet and analyze those. His balance and fluidity jumps off the page in gauntlet. Metcalf stayed on the line and effortlessly caught the ball turning both directions. with his hands.

NOW go compare that to N'Keal Harry who was all over the place and let the ball get into his body. Many in fantasy have this player as #1 WR and his combine tape is HORRIFYING in comparison.

D.K. was my top WR prospect way before the combine and he not only confirmed it, he further separated from all but a couple. He is a lock week 1 starter in the league if he can learn the playbook.

No doubt, just like any WR that has ever played the game, he won't win every route but he will win a ton of routes against single and double coverage because he can do things others simply can't.

Nobody is questioning whether he can eat cushion or take the top off a defense. A fly route is just one route. What other routes has he proven he can run effectively and get separation on? He's not just a raw route runner in the sense that he runs a very limited route tree. He's raw in the sense that his technical ability as a WR is poor. He's not coming in to the league like a Michael Thomas, who had the technical ability mastered and could win with footwork and IQ.

The LSU game illustrates this perfectly. He struggled heavily getting space against a DB who could match his speed and take away his strength.

So yes, he can run a route. A 9 is a route. He can run a few others. But, he's not advanced enough right now to project as a great #1 WR. Top on the concerns about his stop/start speed and change of direction, and there's absolutely concern about it.

From what I saw, he had 3 bad drops. He got open on short routes vs Williams, and dropped the ball. He also had a Defensive pass interference vs Williams on a deep route. He also had several others where he got open but no throw. His 3 for 37 looks like it could have been doubled without a few bad concentration drops on short routes where he got open. I think that's more of an issue (drops) in this game than route running. He clearly beat Greedy more times than the stat like shows.

What are you smoking?? Greedy shutdown Metcalf that game. They took away his only move (running the go) and forced Metcalf to try to beat them with something else which he failed to do.

[honcho55]

figured someone should plop this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsPFQAZ8kk

[Kcarr]

Nobody is questioning whether he can eat cushion or take the top off a defense. A fly route is just one route. What other routes has he proven he can run effectively and get separation on? He's not just a raw route runner in the sense that he runs a very limited route tree. He's raw in the sense that his technical ability as a WR is poor. He's not coming in to the league like a Michael Thomas, who had the technical ability mastered and could win with footwork and IQ.

The LSU game illustrates this perfectly. He struggled heavily getting space against a DB who could match his speed and take away his strength.

So yes, he can run a route. A 9 is a route. He can run a few others. But, he's not advanced enough right now to project as a great #1 WR. Top on the concerns about his stop/start speed and change of direction, and there's absolutely concern about it.

From what I saw, he had 3 bad drops. He got open on short routes vs Williams, and dropped the ball. He also had a Defensive pass interference vs Williams on a deep route. He also had several others where he got open but no throw. His 3 for 37 looks like it could have been doubled without a few bad concentration drops on short routes where he got open. I think that's more of an issue (drops) in this game than route running. He clearly beat Greedy more times than the stat like shows.

What are you smoking?? Greedy shutdown Metcalf that game. They took away his only move (running the go) and forced Metcalf to try to beat them with something else which he failed to do.

From what I saw his 3 for 37 could have been a lot worse if he didn't make a couple grabs late against backed off coverage when the game was basically over and could have also been better had he done more with those garbage tike opportunities. During actual non garbage time plays it was even more of a shutdown effort though.

Also, the same thing happened for the entire Bama game other after their first play from scrimmage. Yes, he beat the bama corner off the line the first play and it was a big play but after that the corner adjusted, realized he might give up a step if he hit dk at the line and just turn and ran with him instead knowing he didn't have to worry about any change of direction or actual route craft being used, he could just follow dk in a straight line and shut him down

Maybe do will get lucky and NFL teams will draft the starting corners from Kent state, ul monroe, and southern Illinois to cover him so he can match up with corners he can beat with pure speed.

[Kcarr]

figured someone should plop this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsPFQAZ8kk

Where is the defensive PI that was mentioned? I saw a false start and an offensive PI called but no defensive one

[Jigga94]

figured someone should plop this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsPFQAZ8kk

Where is the defensive PI that was mentioned? I saw a false start and an offensive PI called but no defensive one

I guess it was that one in the end zone?? That was a pretty weak call to be honest. He looks awful in that game. Couple drops, lazy routes... I'm still high on him but that's a bad game

[Ice]

figured someone should plop this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsPFQAZ8kk

If you really want to break down this film, start with the QB. I certainly did. I get wanting to blame Metcalf and while it certainly wasn't a stellar game, when you break it down you will see multiple late and very poor throws. You will also see Metcalf actually won 8 routes and lost 4. That is fairly typical for a good DB/WR battle.

Greedy had some positioning issues but he is a pretty heady player. Greedy is a top 2-3 DB in this class and teams will start looking him around pick 10 but probably will get picked closer to the 20-25 range given so many big fast front 7 players.

Take twenty minutes and breakdown the film and I believe you will find:

Play 1) Greedy wins

Play 2) Clear loss by Greedy but he knew it and drew a flag, Had that throw been on back shoulder it would have been a catch. Very poor throw, smart penalty on Greedy, off sides on offense forced offsetting penalties and replay of down.

Play 3 Greedy Loss. Metcalf wide open but drops ball ( Poor concentration there but won the route.)

Play 4 Greedy Loss Completion

Play 5 Greedy Loss. Freeze the tape at 39 seconds. He ran a short out and was wide open. Note the QB here and you can see Metcalf wasn't the primary target. jail break play at that point Greedy did recover but QB was lucky there getting rid of the ball. That said, on the actual route Metcald won that and I imagine the coaches discussed that one with Greedy as it shows bad then good play.

Play 6 Greedy wins. This route in off coverage but had the QB hit him at the 15 yard line he was open. Still good deep coverage by a very good corner.

Play 7 Greedy wins the route IMO but it is very close. That pass should have been on the boundy and high. Horrible pass. Still tight coverage but there was a window there.

Play 8 Greedy Loss: Completion
Play 9 Greedy Loss: Completion
Play 10 Greedy wins this route
Play 11 Greedy Loss. Bad pass to wide open WR.
Play 12 Greedy loses. Metcalf open Very bad pass but by NFL standards Metcalf should have caught that ball.

All in all
Terrible game by QB,
Marginal game by Metcalf but routes were not the issue. Concentration was.
Marginal game by Greedy but he made some plays winning 4 routes, losing 8 routes. I did like how he recovered and caused an interference penalty and thought he recovered well on the scramble play.

[GridironGuerilla]

This is fun!

[Farley]

figured someone should plop this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsPFQAZ8kk

If you really want to break down this film, start with the QB. I certainly did. I get wanting to blame Metcalf and while it certainly wasn't a stellar game, when you break it down you will see multiple late and very poor throws. You will also see Metcalf actually won 8 routes and lost 4. That is fairly typical for a good DB/WR battle.

Greedy had some positioning issues but he is a pretty heady player. Greedy is a top 2-3 DB in this class and teams will start looking him around pick 10 but probably will get picked closer to the 20-25 range given so many big fast front 7 players.

Take twenty minutes and breakdown the film and I believe you will find:

Play 1) Greedy wins

Play 2) Clear loss by Greedy but he knew it and drew a flag, Had that throw been on back shoulder it would have been a catch. Very poor throw, smart penalty on Greedy, off sides on offense forced offsetting penalties and replay of down.

Play 3 Greedy Loss. Metcalf wide open but drops ball ( Poor concentration there but won the route.)

Play 4 Greedy Loss Completion

Play 5 Greedy Loss. Freeze the tape at 39 seconds. He ran a short out and was wide open. Note the QB here and you can see Metcalf wasn't the primary target. jail break play at that point Greedy did recover but QB was lucky there getting rid of the ball. That said, on the actual route Metcald won that and I imagine the coaches discussed that one with Greedy as it shows bad then good play.

Play 6 Greedy wins. This route in off coverage but had the QB hit him at the 15 yard line he was open. Still good deep coverage by a very good corner.

Play 7 Greedy wins the route IMO but it is very close. That pass should have been on the boundy and high. Horrible pass. Still tight coverage but there was a window there.

Play 8 Greedy Loss: Completion
Play 9 Greedy Loss: Completion
Play 10 Greedy wins this route
Play 11 Greedy Loss. Bad pass to wide open WR.
Play 12 Greedy loses. Metcalf open Very bad pass but by NFL standards Metcalf should have caught that ball.

All in all
Terrible game by QB,
Marginal game by Metcalf but routes were not the issue. Concentration was.
Marginal game by Greedy but he made some plays winning 4 routes, losing 8 routes. I did like how he recovered and caused an interference penalty and thought he recovered well on the scramble play.

Was thinking exactly the same thing. This is how I saw it. Thanks for taking the time to break it down, type it out, and articulate it so clearly, Ice.

[mild]

So long as we want to talk about actual breakdowns of D.K's film - I'm surprised Matt Waldman's breakdown of him hasn't made it's way into this thread yet.

Some great insight here as to how he is raw with his footwork and body positioning on the fade, and how he could stand to improve it going forward.