Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.

Is This Collusion?

Yes, It Is Collusion
6
43%
No, It Is Not Collusion
8
57%
 
Total votes: 14

turcorox911
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Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:28 pm

You think its fair and/or collusion if there are 2+ blood-brothers in a fantasy league and they don't bid against each other if one of them is in trade talks with a third owner? Like such a practice takes a potential trade partner away from basically any other team in the league.

Personally, I think that's unfair. I can see how its collusion too. Like there are MLB court cases about how that is collusion. See Below.

" Baseball collusion refers to owners working together to avoid competitive bidding for player services or players jointly negotiating with team owners.

Collusion in baseball is formally defined in the Major League Baseball Collective Bargaining Agreement, which states "Players shall not act in concert with other Players and Clubs shall not act in concert with other Clubs." [1] Major League Baseball went through a period of owner collusion during the off-seasons of 1985, 1986, and 1987.

Historically, owner collusion was often referred to as a "gentleman's agreement".[2] After the 1918 season, owners released all their players – terminating the non-guaranteed contracts, with a "gentleman's agreement" not to sign each other's players, as a means of forcing down player salaries.[3]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Lea ... _collusion
Last edited by turcorox911 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cameron Giles
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:34 pm

Yes, it's collusion. It definitely makes the league less competitive.

turcorox911
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:34 pm
Yes, it's collusion. It definitely makes the league less competitive.
Agreed. That's how I see it too.

FantasyFreak
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm

turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:34 pm
Yes, it's collusion. It definitely makes the league less competitive.
Agreed. That's how I see it too.
Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.

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Dynasty DeLorean
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:58 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm
turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:34 pm
Yes, it's collusion. It definitely makes the league less competitive.
Agreed. That's how I see it too.
Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Not so fast. What if one of the brothers was adopted.

Cameron Giles
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:06 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:58 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm
turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm


Agreed. That's how I see it too.
Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Not so fast. What if one of the brothers was adopted.
Plot twist.

turcorox911
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:14 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:06 pm
Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:58 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm


Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Not so fast. What if one of the brothers was adopted.
Plot twist.
They're Fraternity Brothers.

turcorox911
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:14 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm
turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:34 pm
Yes, it's collusion. It definitely makes the league less competitive.
Agreed. That's how I see it too.
Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Meh, I'd welcome more votes and discussion though tbh. 2 is hardly statistically significant.

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Re: Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby Mjvb5 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:02 pm

IMO any action performed to give another team a competitive advantage for that sole purpose is collusion
IE not picking up X player off waivers so your buddy can add him since he needs him more
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Cameron Giles
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:45 pm

turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:14 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm
turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:49 pm


Agreed. That's how I see it too.
Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Meh, I'd welcome more votes and discussion though tbh. 2 is hardly statistically significant.
You shouldn't need much. Them being brothers doesn't matter either. They have an agreement to not bid against each other in trades for players. It's collusion. I wouldn't be happy to know that if I was an owner in that league.

The problem is, I don't know how you stop it. They could continue to collude and you wouldn't really know it. And, they could play it off as they have different taste in players or something.

turcorox911
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Re: Is This Collusion?

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:26 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:45 pm
turcorox911 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:14 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:52 pm


Great, that wraps it up. Case closed.
Meh, I'd welcome more votes and discussion though tbh. 2 is hardly statistically significant.
You shouldn't need much. Them being brothers doesn't matter either. They have an agreement to not bid against each other in trades for players. It's collusion. I wouldn't be happy to know that if I was an owner in that league.

The problem is, I don't know how you stop it. They could continue to collude and you wouldn't really know it. And, they could play it off as they have different taste in players or something.
Yeah, and I'm not the type to put them on blast, even though I could. Just don't think that would go down well.

turcorox911
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Re: Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby turcorox911 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm

Mjvb5 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:02 pm
IMO any action performed to give another team a competitive advantage for that sole purpose is collusion
IE not picking up X player off waivers so your buddy can add him since he needs him more
Easy standard to meet I guess, but hard to prove.

dynasty12
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Re: Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby dynasty12 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:43 pm

I've godda know more. Is this like a "hey I'm in talks with a guy, ill tell you the potential deal if you don't try to outbid me" or is this a seriously one won't try to trade if the other wants a player? I've been in a situation where someone wants to bounce something off of me, and I realize I could undercut the deal but don't want to do them like that... I don't think its the end of the world.

It feels like this "agreement" will die the first time they are both interested in the same player.

I also think your example is a stretch. That was driving down a market and screwing a multitude of players out of a ton of money, a players rights/antitrust issue.

This is just two guys who choose not to enter trade talks if the other guy is in them, who cares? If keeping rapport with another owner is more important than entering a certain trade discussion, that seems more like ownership priority than collusion.
Last edited by dynasty12 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby Prickler » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 pm

It's probably collusion, but I'm in around 20 dynasty/redraft leagues each year and I have yet to get any 2 owners in a bidding war against each other during trade negotiations. It's hard enough making an individual trade, but turning it into an auction?? I think the collusion aspect is insignificant.

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Reljac
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Re: Is This Collusion? (Biological Brothers Scenario)

Postby Reljac » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:18 am

Problematic that you can't engage both owners in trade discussions. If they are doing that on trading, they are likely discussing and working to each other's benefits on the draft and waiver wire as well. I'd be especially weary of any trades they make with each other.


I play in a league with my brother and we've bid against each other plenty of times and don't disclose who we are drafting either. Not off limits to trade in front of each other at the draft to get who we want. The second there is agreement to not compete against each other brothers would have a competitive advantage.
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