Does This Annoy You?

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grandmabetty
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Does This Annoy You?

Postby grandmabetty » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:30 am

i got a guy in an empire league who has this annoying habit involving trading. Well 3 annoying habits really. He is new to the league and was brought in to take over an orphaned team. Hes done really well in trading so I don't fault the guy for what he is doing its just annoying being on the other end of it.

1. He offers up players in a deal that he doesn't own yet. For example, he will be in discussions with another owner about acquiring player X. Before he finalizes a deal for that player he will come to you and say "are you interested in player X?" So in essence he is attempting to orchestrate a deal for a player he doesn't even own yet.

2. He always initiates trade talks by asking you if player X is available. He then follows that up with "what do you want for him?". Now I have told him time and time again that I don't want to set the market for my own guy I want him to. In other words, if he is going to initiate trade talks I want to know what he thinks the player is worth and I will adjust from there. I don't want to show my cards if I don't have to. Im sure this works against other GM's and he is able to get better deals this way and honestly I don't fault him for trying but I just find it annoying especially when he does it over and over again.

3. He Shops your deal. You spend a few hours texting with him various offers until finally you seem to come to an agreement about a deal you both find fair. The last step is to simple say "deal". While you wait for the guy to agree to the offer he goes silent and ghosts you for hours sometimes longer. Then invariably you get a call from another GM who somehow magically knows about the deal you have in the works and you find out your deal is being shopped around so that this guy can find out if he can get something better from someone else. Now again, this isn't a violation of any rules in my opinion and its not even close to the worst thing a GM can do its just really annoying when you spend all day hammering out a deal only to be put on the burner forever while the guy goes and tries to shop around after the fact.
ppr, 10 team, 6 pt all td, 40 man roster QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, TE, 2 Flex (r/w/t), K, IDP
Qb- Kyler Murray, cousins, Roethlisberger
RB- Melvin Gordon, Kamara, CMC, Mark Ingram, Gus Edwards, Justin Jackson, Bryce Love
WR- Mike Evans, tyreek hill, Davante Adams, Juju Smith-Shuster, robert woods,Tyler Boyd, Stills, Paris Campbell, Hollywood brown, Perriman,
TE- kelce, Greg Olsen, Tyler Higbee,
DT - Chris Jones
DE - Demarcus Lawrence, Chandler Jones
LB - Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Todd Davis, Greenlaw, nick kwiatkoski, Ruben foster
CB - NONE
S - Landon Collins, John Johnson III, Antoine Bethea, eric reid

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2020 5th (1)

FantasyFreak
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:31 am

I have no problem with number 1.
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Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, D Washington
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Crowder, Agholor, Sanu, , D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Clay

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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby JoshGordonsDealer » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 am

No. None of that bothers me. Wheel and deal.

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saw061600
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby saw061600 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:38 am

Only the 2nd part of 2 is mildly annoying. I don't mind if owners ask if player is available, often ask myself before wasting time trying to figure out an offer, but then make an offer if you're interested. I guess I too don't want to tell you what I want for a player that I own and own for a reason (either I like the player, was best available at position, need the player, etc.)
10 TM No PPR or waiver 85RST
JimmyG Winston TruB Finley Mariota
Bell Chubb DFreeman Sony DMonty RFreeman RoJo Hines Snell
Evans Cooper ARob Boyd Watkins Agholor NHarry MWill JJAW Isabella Keke AMiller
Kelce Andrews Jonnu
Watt Williams Richardson Taylor Graham
Davis Collins Mosley Kendricks Bucannon DCampbell DJones DLee Compton
Adams Vaccaro Joseph Iloka McLeod Williams

12 TM .5ppr 45 RST
Dak Rivers Herbert
Mixon DHenry Ekeler Penny DEvans Duke Bowden Snell Armstead
Julio Cooper ARob DK Cooks Perriman BEdwards Isabella Stills
Kelce Andrews
Hunter Barnett Clark Crosby G-Matur
Kendricks Warner Perryman Milano Campbell Baker ShaqT Holcomb
Budda Neal Clark

12TM .5PPR 45RST
Wilson Rivers Dalton
Freeman Henry AP JHow Ajayi Nyheim Ito Justice Snell Barnes Tvon
Cooks Amari ARob Landry Watkins Keke Samuel JJAW Isabella
Ertz Andrews Herndon
NBosa Garrett Barnett Clark Leo
Perryman Lee JBrown Milano Wright Baker Tavai Burks
Jones Geathers SWill Abram

jenkins.math
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby jenkins.math » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:42 am

I don't have an issue with any of that. Sounds to me like this owner is playing chess while others are playing checkers.
14 team dynasty, 25 man roster, keep 14, .5 PPR
QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, D/ST, K, DL, LB, DE
QB: Ryan, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, Pollard, Brian Hill
WR: OBJ, Mike Evans, Juju, Cooks, Corey Davis, Dede Westbrook, Fitz
TE: Njoku, Jonnu
K: Slye
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LB: Littleton
DB: Bell

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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby Jigga94 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:46 am

I dont really care for 3. And some of 2 could get annoying, but yea theres nothing wrong with #1
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

grandmabetty
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby grandmabetty » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:53 am

jenkins.math wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:42 am
I don't have an issue with any of that. Sounds to me like this owner is playing chess while others are playing checkers.
I see your point however the way I see it he is attempting to play chess with other people who are also playing chess however he thinks they are playing checkers. In other words, he is trying to play you for a fool but you are not a fool. That is sort of the crux of the annoyance I guess. This isn't our first rodeo is how the saying goes and this dudes moves are geared toward how you would take advantage of amateurs. Again I don't fault him for trying but after a while you should get a sense if a guy is a sucker or not and stop the charades.
ppr, 10 team, 6 pt all td, 40 man roster QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, TE, 2 Flex (r/w/t), K, IDP
Qb- Kyler Murray, cousins, Roethlisberger
RB- Melvin Gordon, Kamara, CMC, Mark Ingram, Gus Edwards, Justin Jackson, Bryce Love
WR- Mike Evans, tyreek hill, Davante Adams, Juju Smith-Shuster, robert woods,Tyler Boyd, Stills, Paris Campbell, Hollywood brown, Perriman,
TE- kelce, Greg Olsen, Tyler Higbee,
DT - Chris Jones
DE - Demarcus Lawrence, Chandler Jones
LB - Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Todd Davis, Greenlaw, nick kwiatkoski, Ruben foster
CB - NONE
S - Landon Collins, John Johnson III, Antoine Bethea, eric reid

2020 1st rd (0)
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2020 3rd (0)
2020 4th (0)
2020 5th (1)

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skip
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby skip » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:08 am

He can do what he wishes, but you need to have your own approach to his tactics:

1). If an owner is shopping a player he doesn't own yet, but it's in the works to acquire either tell him to obtain the player first or do an end around and go directly to the owner with the player. Perhaps that will teach him his own lesson.

2). Just don't give him anything to work with unless he starts with an offer. Your counter offer can get him the "what do you want for" information that may help him come back with a better offer.

3) This is easily handled by using the trade interface. This whole saying "deal" thing is meaningless. I use the analogy of buying a house. All the negotiating even the contract, etc means nothing until you're at the table signing papers and handing over checks. Your discussions should have actual offers to be accepted on the web site.
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby jenkins.math » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:12 am

grandmabetty wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:53 am

I see your point however the way I see it he is attempting to play chess with other people who are also playing chess however he thinks they are playing checkers. In other words, he is trying to play you for a fool but you are not a fool. That is sort of the crux of the annoyance I guess. This isn't our first rodeo is how the saying goes and this dudes moves are geared toward how you would take advantage of amateurs. Again I don't fault him for trying but after a while you should get a sense if a guy is a sucker or not and stop the charades.
I dont necessarily think he is trying to play you, or others as a fool. Now if you or others feel foolish after trading with him or revisiting a trade months later, that's on the other owner. He is trying to get the best possible deal for his team.

You openly admitted in your first post that he has done really well trading as a new owner in the league. To me this all reads as being "anti new owner who has done a good job early". Usually when that happens these kinds of comments pop up out of fear of the new owner being a major thorn in the way to a championship. Just my opinion as an outsider looking in. Everyone says that they want a super active league, super active and knowledgeable owners, etc. But I've found the opposite to be true most of the time. The big dogs are more than happy to dominate year after year and collect their titles.
14 team dynasty, 25 man roster, keep 14, .5 PPR
QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, D/ST, K, DL, LB, DE
QB: Ryan, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, Pollard, Brian Hill
WR: OBJ, Mike Evans, Juju, Cooks, Corey Davis, Dede Westbrook, Fitz
TE: Njoku, Jonnu
K: Slye
D/ST: Titans, Eagles
DL: Heyward
LB: Littleton
DB: Bell

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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby adammc44 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:14 am

Number 3 sounds a little annoying if youve spent a lot of time putting a deal together but i dont think you can fault him too much. Maybe let him know next time youre up for the deal but it has to get done by such and such time. Or heck game him a bit and give him some of his own medicine. Tell him youre talking to other owners too so if he wants a guarantee on the deal he better accept fast.

1 i dont think is bad at all. If anything if its a player you really want you now know hes on the table to make your own offer.

For 2, I can understand but also see his perspective. Theres nothing worse than just getting no response or getting some freak out email about how your offer is crap. Sometimes the difference in valuation is just a nonstarter and theres no point in going through the motions. Either ask him to say what he might have in mind or let him know how you value the player and/or who you are interested in on his team.
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby Pac_Eddy » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:38 am

Knowing how this guy operates, I'd tell him to make offers via the website rather than email. You can then accept them before he has time to shop around.

Other than that, he's free to shop offers. I don't disclose offers I have, but I do tell others when I'm close to a deal if they've shown interest in a player of mine.
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby wildabeast49 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:49 am

seems like a good, active owner.
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QB: Brady, Wilson
RB: Fournette, cook, mixon, Ajayi, Gordon, Ware, Joe Williams, Hunt, Martin
WR: Evans, TY, Dez, Sammy, Coleman, Diggs, Ross, White, Fitz
TE: Watson, Eifert, Bennet

PPR 12 team superflex, limited devy (1 per year) heavy return yardage
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Fournette, Zeke, Mixon, mcCaffrey, Joe Williams, Mcnichols, Mack, Martin
Cooper, Evans, Watkins, Coleman, Diggs, Martavis, Chad Williams, Parker
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby Mjvb5 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:11 am

3 I'm not a big fan of, I can understand shopping your guy around some just to see what else is out there. But I'll always tell the other owner I'm doing that and only use vague details on the value in other options. 1 I actually do a decent bit in some of my leagues that take trade approval, I do A for B and C because I want B and then shop C. 2 I don't like the what do you want for X part especially if its a guy Im not shopping, the is X moveable I actually like because there are some pieces in leagues that fit team makeup so well there pretty much unmovable.... or there name is todd gurley
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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby lawilt » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:38 pm

start forcing him to make offers on the site or if he does shop your offer then start lowering your offer when he comes back to you to do the deal

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Re: Does This Annoy You?

Postby hoos89 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:49 pm

I don't really see an issue with any of this.

1. Don't see an issue with shopping a player he doesn't own yet...my league allows 3 team trades. Sometimes it can make sense in certain situations (Team A really wants a player you have but doesn't have a player that makes sense for your roster). Can result in an owner going straight to the owner of the player though, so can backfire.

2. I can understand not wanting to make the first offer when he asks about a player, but either (a) tell him to make the first offer since he's the one asking or (b) set the price high.

3. ....eh. This is one of those things that can backfire by alerting other owners that certain players are available at a certain price. Could churn up interest in the other owner's players and result in him missing out on a deal. I'll only vaguely shop offers for this reason (e.g. "I have an offer from another owner that I like better than this one...can you do better?").
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Wentz, Bridgewater, Tannehill, Haskins
Jacobs, Taylor, Conner, Michel, D. Harris, Love, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin
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