I want your studs...

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
Pullo Vision
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I want your studs...

Postby Pullo Vision » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:50 pm

...but won't deal mine. Having a trade discussion right now, and that was basically the other owner's line. I'd normally just shut down discussions at this point, but see too many trade possibilities between our teams.

Has anyone effectively dealt with this position? Do you go through the effort to point out how unequal that position is? Simply state that trading a stud requires dealing one?
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1 Q, 1R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 R/T, 1 Def

Mjvb5
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Mjvb5 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:17 pm

If they won't deal a comparable piece I normally tell them it'll take some form of an overpay to get my guys
12 team ppr 1qb 2rb 2wt 1te 1 flex 2lb 2db 2dl 1dflex
Eli manning,
A. Brown, Dez, TY Hilton,Crabtree, K. Aiken
D. Free, Howard, Ingram, demarco, AP, Powell
Kelce
Cam Jordan,Calais Campbell, Suh, Heyward, Sheard
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Jigga94 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:35 pm

Did they come to you? I have a friend I like to trade with a lot. Over the years, we've got "our guys" from trading, but since then it has been kind of hard to go after top name players without them wanting an overpay. I cant blame them as their team is great and it usually doesnt make sense to move players around, I just wont overpay for a guy usually. If a deal doesnt get done, its no big deal.

If he came to you though, thats a different story. If he comes into talks asking for a guy like Zeke or Hopkins, he better have a stud fairly close in value attached to the deal. If not, just decline and tell him why
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

Pullo Vision
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Pullo Vision » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:44 pm

Jigga94 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:35 pm
Did they come to you? I have a friend I like to trade with a lot. Over the years, we've got "our guys" from trading, but since then it has been kind of hard to go after top name players without them wanting an overpay. I cant blame them as their team is great and it usually doesnt make sense to move players around, I just wont overpay for a guy usually. If a deal doesnt get done, its no big deal.

If he came to you though, thats a different story. If he comes into talks asking for a guy like Zeke or Hopkins, he better have a stud fairly close in value attached to the deal. If not, just decline and tell him why
My experience with this guy is kinda the opposite. I've been in one league with him for something like 4 years, another for 8 or 9 or so. I don't recall ever doing a deal with him., and I'm a tradeaholic.

The current "discussion" (more like exchange of statements) was initiated when I noticed his non existent RB depth and I offered some depth options for small pick swaps. After several days, he rejected and today said his "I want studs but won't trade mine" thing.

I could just kill it here with something like has been said about either give a stud or overpay- saves me time. But, I'm trying to expand my negotiating skills and can't figure out how to get around this idiotic position.
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1 Q, 1R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 R/T, 1 Def

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Pac_Eddy » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:37 pm

I have no problem with his stance. It's good he told you up front.

Nice times out of ten, I'm the guy giving several assets for the single better asset. I find its easier to backfill the depth I have to than to find elite talent.

Sounds like your friend had the same policy. I'd move on to other owners if you're trying to add a star player.
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby wildabeast49 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:42 pm

Agreed, buying a stud doesn't have to cost a stud.
10 team, .5 ppr dynasty
QB: Brady, Wilson
RB: Fournette, cook, mixon, Ajayi, Gordon, Ware, Joe Williams, Hunt, Martin
WR: Evans, TY, Dez, Sammy, Coleman, Diggs, Ross, White, Fitz
TE: Watson, Eifert, Bennet

PPR 12 team superflex, limited devy (1 per year) heavy return yardage
Cousins, Rivers, Kizer
Fournette, Zeke, Mixon, mcCaffrey, Joe Williams, Mcnichols, Mack, Martin
Cooper, Evans, Watkins, Coleman, Diggs, Martavis, Chad Williams, Parker
Henry, Rudolph, Hodges

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby jman3134 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:25 pm

What about picks? Easy way around this dilemma.
12 team, 35 man rosters, 1/2 PPR, 10 round rookie/FA draft
Qb: Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill
Rb: Saquon Barkley, Joe Mixon, Matt Breida, Austin Ekeler, Chase Edmonds, Troymaine Pope, Wes Hills, Trenton Cannon
Wr: DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Julian Edelman, John Brown, Keelan Cole, Jake Kumerow, Chris Conley, Richie James, Marquise Goodwin, Jakobi Meyers, Diontae Spencer, Brandon Zylstra, Duke Williams, Krishawn Hogan
Te: OJ Howard, George Kittle, Darren Waller, Jonnu Smith, Jacob Hollister, Dan Arnold
K: Jason Myers
D: Baltimore Ravens
2020 picks: 1 mid 1st, 2 late 2020 1sts, 4, 7,8,9,10,10

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby JOHNNY_COCKTAIL » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:28 am

Thats how I trade im not giving up any of my big time guys unless I'm in a rebuild and I usually only trade for other teams studs. Ill shop through the league see who people are low on and which owners will accept 3 above average players for one big time guy. I use my draft picks heavily as well I rarely ever even have a pick to draft with

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby sloth8u » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:46 am

I'll always listen to what the other owner "is willing to give". That will tell you if there is a deal you like.

The shape of your squad will ultimately determine if they can help you or not. Dont trade just to make a move though.

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby jenkins.math » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:02 am

You said you haven't traded with this guy despite being in a league with him for 8 or so years. Sometimes there is a reason. I've got a couple guys in my league that are virtually impossible to trade with because they just try and bend you over.

For instance, have a guy who still hasn't won a game this year. I'm in first and wanted a little more RB depth. So I offered him Ito Smith and James Washington (we can only keep 12 and they arent in my top 12) for Marshawn Lynch a couple weeks ago. I felt that was an overpay on my part that made sense for us both. He countered with Lynch for James Conner and Tarik Cohen. Just another example of why nobody trades with this guy and why his team is awful every single year.
14 team dynasty, 25 man roster, keep 14, .5 PPR
QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, D/ST, K, DL, LB, DE
QB: Ryan, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, Pollard, Brian Hill
WR: OBJ, Mike Evans, Juju, Cooks, Corey Davis, Dede Westbrook, Fitz
TE: Njoku, Jonnu
K: Slye
D/ST: Titans, Eagles
DL: Heyward
LB: Littleton
DB: Bell

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Jigga94 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:50 am

jenkins.math wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:02 am
You said you haven't traded with this guy despite being in a league with him for 8 or so years. Sometimes there is a reason. I've got a couple guys in my league that are virtually impossible to trade with because they just try and bend you over.

For instance, have a guy who still hasn't won a game this year. I'm in first and wanted a little more RB depth. So I offered him Ito Smith and James Washington (we can only keep 12 and they arent in my top 12) for Marshawn Lynch a couple weeks ago. I felt that was an overpay on my part that made sense for us both. He countered with Lynch for James Conner and Tarik Cohen. Just another example of why nobody trades with this guy and why his team is awful every single year.
Love this. The guys who are unreasonable usually end up killing their own team
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3

Pullo Vision
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Pullo Vision » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:14 am

Pac_Eddy wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:37 pm
I have no problem with his stance. It's good he told you up front.

Nice times out of ten, I'm the guy giving several assets for the single better asset. I find its easier to backfill the depth I have to than to find elite talent.

Sounds like your friend had the same policy. I'd move on to other owners if you're trying to add a star player.
Definitely appreciate the upfronted-ness. Normally, when I get this kind of "I want your stud, but dealing mine", I look to see if there's pieces I'd buy for a perceived stud. That doesn't usually go anywhere, but the discussion opens other angles.

In this particular case, there are no options. No useful pieces. In my sig league, he has 2 RBs. Yes, where we have to start 2, he has only 2. That's it, no depth. RBs getting touches are tough to come by. The top scoring RBs on waivers- Kyle Juicecheck of SF, Anthony Sherman in KC, CJ Ham of Minnesota. There's nothing. His WRs corps is similarly short- Julio, Fuller, Cole, Amendola, Dez, Ryan Grant. Again, that's it. There are no angles involving players if he's taking his studs off the table but wants mine. Obviously picks can be involved, but I'm not taking his suggestion of 2 1sts for Zeke.

Rather than flame him or politely close discussions, I'm trying to find a way to get the pick upgrades I want and get him the depth he needs. I'm assuming he values depth as an aspiring contender. I picked up Dion Lewis last year and he was huge when Zeke was suspended. I've been gobbling up solid depth plays anticipating contending, but I probably won't be. Try to sell for value.

Pac_Eddy, you may have the same valuations on depth this guy does. Can you explain your view on productive depth when you're a contender?
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1 Q, 1R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 R/T, 1 Def

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Re: I want your studs...

Postby Pac_Eddy » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:27 am

Pullo Vision wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:14 am
Pac_Eddy wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:37 pm
I have no problem with his stance. It's good he told you up front.

Nice times out of ten, I'm the guy giving several assets for the single better asset. I find its easier to backfill the depth I have to than to find elite talent.

Sounds like your friend had the same policy. I'd move on to other owners if you're trying to add a star player.
Definitely appreciate the upfronted-ness. Normally, when I get this kind of "I want your stud, but dealing mine", I look to see if there's pieces I'd buy for a perceived stud. That doesn't usually go anywhere, but the discussion opens other angles.

In this particular case, there are no options. No useful pieces. In my sig league, he has 2 RBs. Yes, where we have to start 2, he has only 2. That's it, no depth. RBs getting touches are tough to come by. The top scoring RBs on waivers- Kyle Juicecheck of SF, Anthony Sherman in KC, CJ Ham of Minnesota. There's nothing. His WRs corps is similarly short- Julio, Fuller, Cole, Amendola, Dez, Ryan Grant. Again, that's it. There are no angles involving players if he's taking his studs off the table but wants mine. Obviously picks can be involved, but I'm not taking his suggestion of 2 1sts for Zeke.

Rather than flame him or politely close discussions, I'm trying to find a way to get the pick upgrades I want and get him the depth he needs. I'm assuming he values depth as an aspiring contender. I picked up Dion Lewis last year and he was huge when Zeke was suspended. I've been gobbling up solid depth plays anticipating contending, but I probably won't be. Try to sell for value.

Pac_Eddy, you may have the same valuations on depth this guy does. Can you explain your view on productive depth when you're a contender?
It sounds like he has zero depth but you view his team as a contender. I'd prefer that over having the value on my bench, but his may be an extreme example. Depth is needed too, but I'd give it all up for a better starting lineup.

My personal policy is to get as many studs as possible (I know, everyone wants that). Part of that is to have churnable roster spaces so I can take a lot of long shot free agents. Over the years that's how I got Dion Lewis like you, Danny Woodhead, Edelman, Antonio Brown, Julius Thomas, etc.

I do sell studs, players I don't think can maintain that value (Julius Thomas).

I'd like to see the other guy's whole roster but you may have reasons to keep it private.
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby DLF3000 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:52 am

Sometimes "pieces" for studs works if one of those pieces is someone the other team really believes will be a stud - but when or if that happens, who knows? That's why some of these trades look like trade fleecing BS early on.

That's the main reason most of those deals get done, while others ignore these types of trades completely, and still others are fine with good/great/overpay value and depth.

Basically, every fantasy GM's style/philosophy, team state and player/pick valuation is different, never mind the specifics of every trade being different, so to me a few GMs might still rarely bend their typically hard-and-fast trading rules.
10 Team Dynasty PPR, TE Premium (1.5 PPR), 6 pt/pass TD, 1pt/25 yds pass, 1pt/5 carries, 1pt/10yds rush/rec
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX (R/W/T) 1DST 1TMK | 21 Active Roster, 4 Taxi (*), 1 IR/Out (+)

QB - P Mahomes | D Prescott | B Mayfield*
RB - C Carson | A Jones | R Mostert | A Ekeler | M Breida | P Lindsay | D Guice | R Penny | N Hines*
WR - D Hopkins | K Golladay | D Slayton | J Edelman | J Jeudy ®* | A Miller | T Smith | M Boykin*
TE - T Kelce | M Andrews | D Knox | DST: Ravens | TMK: 49ers
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Re: I want your studs...

Postby ninotoreS » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:22 pm

Pullo Vision wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:44 pm
Jigga94 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:35 pm
Did they come to you? I have a friend I like to trade with a lot. Over the years, we've got "our guys" from trading, but since then it has been kind of hard to go after top name players without them wanting an overpay. I cant blame them as their team is great and it usually doesnt make sense to move players around, I just wont overpay for a guy usually. If a deal doesnt get done, its no big deal.

If he came to you though, thats a different story. If he comes into talks asking for a guy like Zeke or Hopkins, he better have a stud fairly close in value attached to the deal. If not, just decline and tell him why
My experience with this guy is kinda the opposite. I've been in one league with him for something like 4 years, another for 8 or 9 or so. I don't recall ever doing a deal with him., and I'm a tradeaholic.

The current "discussion" (more like exchange of statements) was initiated when I noticed his non existent RB depth and I offered some depth options for small pick swaps. After several days, he rejected and today said his "I want studs but won't trade mine" thing.

I could just kill it here with something like has been said about either give a stud or overpay- saves me time. But, I'm trying to expand my negotiating skills and can't figure out how to get around this idiotic position.
Unless he counter-offered after rejecting, it sounds to me like he's just making a chagrined admission. Like an oblique way of telling you he's just not gonna trade.

If so, stop trying to get around his 'idiotic' position, because there's no position to get around -- he's telling you he's not open for business.
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