Thoughts On Mariota??

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby dizzler » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm

IZigUZag wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:59 pm
So Mariota rebounded at every lvl this Sunday vs the Falcons.

Looked confident, pocket awareness, ball placement and accuracy were pretty much perfect all game and finally got the TEN WR's involved in the passing game.

I am by no means saying that he's turned the corner -- he's had stretches of excellent play only to fall back into mediocrity before-- but it was encouraging to see that he hasn't completely regressed into a 3rd string QB.

And despite 3 out of these 4 games being some of the worst play I've ever seen out of him, he currently sits as the #8 fantasy QB on the season.

The TEN receiving core that's been holding him back his entire career suddenly looks like one of the better cores in the NFL with the emergence of AJB; and he might just be the beneficiary of that.
Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby IZigUZag » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:11 pm

dizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm
[

Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
Not that I disagree with everything, but Mariota most definitely did not look good in week 1. He wasnt asked to do much in the 2nd half, but he missed a lot of easy throws and his overall stats were bailed out by AJB and Henry getting crazy yac off of short passes.

His play vs the Falcons wasnt buoyed by any of those plays. The AJB 55 yard TD had perfect ball placement that allowed him ample time to make a move after the catch.

As for the protection, the Oline wasnt a liability but Mariotas decisiveness and pocket presence didnt allow them time to suck (which is an example of good QB play)

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:21 pm

dizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm
IZigUZag wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:59 pm
So Mariota rebounded at every lvl this Sunday vs the Falcons.

Looked confident, pocket awareness, ball placement and accuracy were pretty much perfect all game and finally got the TEN WR's involved in the passing game.

I am by no means saying that he's turned the corner -- he's had stretches of excellent play only to fall back into mediocrity before-- but it was encouraging to see that he hasn't completely regressed into a 3rd string QB.

And despite 3 out of these 4 games being some of the worst play I've ever seen out of him, he currently sits as the #8 fantasy QB on the season.

The TEN receiving core that's been holding him back his entire career suddenly looks like one of the better cores in the NFL with the emergence of AJB; and he might just be the beneficiary of that.
Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
I would say this, at some point, if Mariota keeps playing the way he has for most of his career, then the Titans need a new QB, regardless, unless they plan on being mediocre, running a 1980's type of game plan on offense forever. They better find out, though, just like the Bucs with Winston. This is the year to decide. IF Tanny comes in, the decision has obviously been made.
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby DLF3000 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 am

Sorry, can't do this anymore. This up-and-horribly-down Titans passing game will drive you insane.

I drafted Mariota (traded away last year) and Davis (can't quit him, can't trade him), so I feel qualified... and need therapy. :roll:
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:13 am

Mariota has two major faults. Bouts of mediocrity is one. The other injuries.

If you own this dude, now's a great time to sell.

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby djeternal2 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:51 am

dizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm


Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
A couple things here. First off the Falcons D is abysmal. So I'm not surprised the OL held up better this week compared to previous weeks. Secondly what does Tanny do better than Mariota? Pass the ball which is the main job for a QB unless you are a running QB then it could be argued running the ball is first. Tanny has 2 seasons of 4k+ passing yards and a third that was just shy. Mariota's best year was 3400 in 2016. Tanny has also thrown for 24+ TDs 3 times. Mariota again has done it once in 2016. You can argue all you want about injuries for Mariota but the best ability is availability and when available Tanny has outproduced Mariota.
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby IZigUZag » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:18 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:51 am
dizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm


Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
A couple things here. First off the Falcons D is abysmal. So I'm not surprised the OL held up better this week compared to previous weeks. Secondly what does Tanny do better than Mariota? Pass the ball which is the main job for a QB unless you are a running QB then it could be argued running the ball is first. Tanny has 2 seasons of 4k+ passing yards and a third that was just shy. Mariota's best year was 3400 in 2016. Tanny has also thrown for 24+ TDs 3 times. Mariota again has done it once in 2016. You can argue all you want about injuries for Mariota but the best ability is availability and when available Tanny has outproduced Mariota.
It took Tannehill almost 600 attempts to hit those marks. Mariota has never thrown more than 453 times in a season; and they have had by far the highest run rate near the goal line in the NFL limiting Passing TDs.

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby Ice » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:18 pm

DLF3000 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 am
Sorry, can't do this anymore. This up-and-horribly-down Titans passing game will drive you insane.

I drafted Mariota (traded away last year) and Davis (can't quit him, can't trade him), so I feel qualified... and need therapy. :roll:
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby dizzler » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:27 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:51 am
dizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm


Looked pretty good week 1 against the Browns also so I'd say 2 games out of the 4 being the worst..

Mariota has always seemed to play well against NFC teams fwiw. Also made the move to rookie Nate Davis at RG over Jamil Douglas in which seemed to be a good move for production. The protection was huge for Mariota Sunday. Last week 9 sacks on 19 pressures and then 0 sacks allowed against the Falcons. Not many Qb's can succeed with that much pressure in your face all game in which they came into this weeks game allowing 17 sacks on the year ( average roughly 6 per game).

For all the "switch to Tannehill" guys out there, what does Tannehill do better than Mariota? I can answer that... absolutely nothing. Comparing those two is like comparing Brand name food to Great value brand. Mariota is a faster-yet slightly-better version of Tannehill and the same problems will exist no matter who is under center. Trust me as a Titans fan, it's very easy to yell at the TV.. " FIRE THE QB". but there's much more underlying issues on that offense than just the Qb. Starting with the O-line consistency.
A couple things here. First off the Falcons D is abysmal. So I'm not surprised the OL held up better this week compared to previous weeks. Secondly what does Tanny do better than Mariota? Pass the ball which is the main job for a QB unless you are a running QB then it could be argued running the ball is first. Tanny has 2 seasons of 4k+ passing yards and a third that was just shy. Mariota's best year was 3400 in 2016. Tanny has also thrown for 24+ TDs 3 times. Mariota again has done it once in 2016. You can argue all you want about injuries for Mariota but the best ability is availability and when available Tanny has outproduced Mariota.
I agree with a lot of your points but to me, it's not injuries that is holding him back entirely. Its usage. Tannehill also was throwing the ball 25-40 times a game in Miami. Mariota has been lucky his whole career to throw the ball 30-35+ times a game even if they are trailing most of the game. It's a run first offense that doesn't look to change that image any time soon. Also to your availability point - Tannehill is just as injury prone as Mariota is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Mariota stan and wouldn't mind seeing them grab a different QB but Tannehill simply is not the answer. He's the short term fix in case Mariota gets hurt or they need to make a quick change without wasting draft capital on a QB this past season. If the Titans do make the change at QB and let Mariota go, I wouldn't be disappointed nor surprised and would like to see them add a rookie out of this class regardless of what direction they go in at QB.
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby mild » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:55 pm

dizzler wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:27 pm
If the Titans do make the change at QB and let Mariota go, I wouldn't be disappointed nor surprised and would like to see them add a rookie out of this class regardless of what direction they go in at QB.
I've been thinking about this. Lets say the Titans finish as a 1-and-done wildcard and have... sayyyy... pick #20 overall. (I think that's about the ceiling of their potential success this season)

With the amount of teams that now have "their guy" - is it likely that someone highly touted (obviously not Tua) could fall to them at that spot? And would it be someone that presents a clear-and-immediate upgrade over MM? (ie. Pro ready - I need to start looking at 2020 mock drafts I guess)

Regarding Mariota... I would just love to see what happens if he was put in a system he was allowed to learn for more than 1 year. Just about nothing has gone right for him since being drafted - coach, scheme, health, weapons - it's all been terrible. To think that this is probably the best situation he's been in so far is pretty damning.

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby IZigUZag » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:16 pm

mild wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:55 pm
dizzler wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:27 pm
If the Titans do make the change at QB and let Mariota go, I wouldn't be disappointed nor surprised and would like to see them add a rookie out of this class regardless of what direction they go in at QB.
I've been thinking about this. Lets say the Titans finish as a 1-and-done wildcard and have... sayyyy... pick #20 overall. (I think that's about the ceiling of their potential success this season)

With the amount of teams that now have "their guy" - is it likely that someone highly touted (obviously not Tua) could fall to them at that spot? And would it be someone that presents a clear-and-immediate upgrade over MM? (ie. Pro ready - I need to start looking at 2020 mock drafts I guess)

Regarding Mariota... I would just love to see what happens if he was put in a system he was allowed to learn for more than 1 year. Just about nothing has gone right for him since being drafted - coach, scheme, health, weapons - it's all been terrible. To think that this is probably the best situation he's been in so far is pretty damning.
There's 6 QBs that could conceivably play their way into the 1st round, so odds are there will be someone they could reach for at #20 if they chose to go that route.

I don't have much faith in any QB that finds themselves in TEN. This franchise is just terrible at developing QBs.

Mariota's career there has been a text book "how to" on what not to do with a young QB:

1) Force your QB to adhere to your offense rather than play to his strengths.
2) Revolving door of offensive coaches
3) Give a young QB coming from a completely different offense a TE Coach to develop his fundamentals.
4) Surround him with little to no receiving talent to work with

I suppose the next QB would walk into a much better situation with AJB and Corey Davis as receiving options.. but if it's a guy that needs to develop in any way he's probably screwed.

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby mild » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:28 pm

IZigUZag wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:16 pm
I don't have much faith in any QB that finds themselves in TEN. This franchise is just terrible at developing QBs.

Mariota's career there has been a text book "how to" on what not to do with a young QB:

1) Force your QB to adhere to your offense rather than play to his strengths.
2) Revolving door of offensive coaches
3) Give a young QB coming from a completely different offense a TE Coach to develop his fundamentals.
4) Surround him with little to no receiving talent to work with

I suppose the next QB would walk into a much better situation with AJB and Corey Davis as receiving options.. but if it's a guy that needs to develop in any way he's probably screwed.
I couldn't agree more with all of this. Watch the Patriots scoop him up this offseason and set him learning under Vader and Palpatine... if there's one thing about Mariota, it's that I believe he has the IQ to execute a complex dink-and-dunk system - provided he is given good coaching, and the time to learn it for more than 1 season.

Mariota is still a hold for me for this reason only in my Superflex league - I want to see what happens if he falls into a good coaching system. (I also got him cheap so it stings less than for those that would have drafted him high)

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby jenkins.math » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:29 pm

mild wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:55 pm

Regarding Mariota... I would just love to see what happens if he was put in a system he was allowed to learn for more than 1 year. Just about nothing has gone right for him since being drafted - coach, scheme, health, weapons - it's all been terrible. To think that this is probably the best situation he's been in so far is pretty damning.
There is one major flaw with that statement. His best season was his 2nd year by far (2016). That was year 1 with Mularkey and the "Exotic Smashmouth" offense. He returned to the exact same offense in 2017, same playcaller, same weapons (but with a rookie Corey Davis now), and was awful. Absolute garbage. Why did he regress so bad the one time he walked into the same offense that he had success in? I think teams figured out his tendencies and he has been unable to counter thus far in his career.

While I don't think the Titans maximized Mariota's potential; I also don't think Mariota's ceiling was near as high as many of those blaming the Titans organization care to admit either. His ceiling is much more Alex Smith than franchise changer. While that can be a solid QB, but you have to literally have everything perfect around you to reach that.
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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby mild » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:55 pm

jenkins.math wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:29 pm
There is one major flaw with that statement. His best season was his 2nd year by far (2016). That was year 1 with Mularkey and the "Exotic Smashmouth" offense. He returned to the exact same offense in 2017, same playcaller, same weapons (but with a rookie Corey Davis now), and was awful. Absolute garbage. Why did he regress so bad the one time he walked into the same offense that he had success in? I think teams figured out his tendencies and he has been unable to counter thus far in his career...
I just like that the one big flaw in my argument is hinging on the offensive mastermind that is Mike Mularkey :lol:

I'll stand by it. Name one thing that has gone right for-or-around MM in his first 4 years. About the only thing I can think of? His offensive line is pretty good. Aaaaand... that's it.

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Re: Thoughts On Mariota??

Postby ericanadian » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:08 pm

Alex Smith also got screwed by a franchise that changed offensive systems every year and the only way he’s even remotely statistically comparable to Mariota is if you ignore the first five or so awful years of his career or just look at total yards per season, TDs per season, etc. Mariota dominates the rate stats outside of Int%.
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