Cooper Kupp is a WR1

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thebeast
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby thebeast » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am

hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:40 pm
pvillebiker wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:19 am
Oh yeah sorry, it's Kupp + late 1 for Hill. I was still half asleep when I wrote that.
hard pass. keep Kupp or aim higher. ideas:

Kupp for JuJu (most JuJu'ers are down on him now at least until next season... for good reason)

Kupp for Adams (yeah, still working on getting that one down me-self)

Kupp + ? for Hopkins. not as crazy as it was a few weeks ago.

best of luck!
I've already sent Kupp for Adams...also sent Kupp + late first for Hopkins. Not sure whether Kupp isn't more valuable than JuJu at this point, and the owner is .500, barely in the playoffs (6 of 6), 6ppg behind 5th and 22.5 behind 1st. Not sure he'd go for JuJu+ for Kupp...but maybe worth asking?
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?" You need to express interest in Adams and then later work Kupp into the conversation, like... Hm, I know you wanted picks and players for Adams... I might consider moving Kupp if Adams is coming back, how do you feel about Kupp?

Positional 1-1 offers always seem off to me as it's basically saying that I like your player more than the one I'm offering. Unless of course it's a team construction type thing like sending Julio to a contender for like Sutton on a rebuilding team.
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby perkinsrooster » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:42 am

thebeast wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am
hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:40 pm
pvillebiker wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm


hard pass. keep Kupp or aim higher. ideas:

Kupp for JuJu (most JuJu'ers are down on him now at least until next season... for good reason)

Kupp for Adams (yeah, still working on getting that one down me-self)

Kupp + ? for Hopkins. not as crazy as it was a few weeks ago.

best of luck!
I've already sent Kupp for Adams...also sent Kupp + late first for Hopkins. Not sure whether Kupp isn't more valuable than JuJu at this point, and the owner is .500, barely in the playoffs (6 of 6), 6ppg behind 5th and 22.5 behind 1st. Not sure he'd go for JuJu+ for Kupp...but maybe worth asking?
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?" You need to express interest in Adams and then later work Kupp into the conversation, like... Hm, I know you wanted picks and players for Adams... I might consider moving Kupp if Adams is coming back, how do you feel about Kupp?

Positional 1-1 offers always seem off to me as it's basically saying that I like your player more than the one I'm offering. Unless of course it's a team construction type thing like sending Julio to a contender for like Sutton on a rebuilding team.
I agree 100%. I don't think I've ever done a positional 1 for 1.

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby hoos89 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:05 pm

thebeast wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?" You need to express interest in Adams and then later work Kupp into the conversation, like... Hm, I know you wanted picks and players for Adams... I might consider moving Kupp if Adams is coming back, how do you feel about Kupp?

Positional 1-1 offers always seem off to me as it's basically saying that I like your player more than the one I'm offering. Unless of course it's a team construction type thing like sending Julio to a contender for like Sutton on a rebuilding team.
Trading for an injured player can pretty much always be couched a team construction type thing. If the Adams owner needs wins now and isn't sure when Adams will be back at 100% he might reasonably prefer the high WR1 production that Kupp is currently putting up, and a team that is either rebuilding or solidly in the playoffs might be less concerned about Adams' injury.

Also "Are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better" is an awfully cynical way to view that sort of deal. People can legitimately have different opinions about players.
perkinsrooster wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:42 am

I agree 100%. I don't think I've ever done a positional 1 for 1.
They definitely happen. Just looking at the 2018 season of one of my leagues:
(1) Godwin for Demaryius (lol)
(2) Ben for Dalton
(3) CD for Amari (pre Dallas Trade)
(4) Jonnu for Seals-Jones
(5) Jameis for Goff
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.x, 1.x, 2.03, 2.x, 2.x, 3.05, 3.x, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
2020 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.06, 1.x, 1.x, 2.x, 2.x

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:41 pm

perkinsrooster wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:09 pm
Remember that time when people thought Michael Thomas was only good because of Brees?
Thomas and Kupp don't have similar roles at all. One faces WR1 coverage and the other doesn't.

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby pvillebiker » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:06 pm

I finally caved and gave up Kupp for TD-less Adams. Hoping he's over the TT and comes back strong for my down-the-stretch run. Definitely a short-term risk for a contender, but am inspired by Aaron Rodger's resurgence.

Kupp will always have a special place. lol have him in 1 other league too.

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby Krypto_King » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:19 pm

thebeast wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am
hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:40 pm
pvillebiker wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm


hard pass. keep Kupp or aim higher. ideas:

Kupp for JuJu (most JuJu'ers are down on him now at least until next season... for good reason)

Kupp for Adams (yeah, still working on getting that one down me-self)

Kupp + ? for Hopkins. not as crazy as it was a few weeks ago.

best of luck!
I've already sent Kupp for Adams...also sent Kupp + late first for Hopkins. Not sure whether Kupp isn't more valuable than JuJu at this point, and the owner is .500, barely in the playoffs (6 of 6), 6ppg behind 5th and 22.5 behind 1st. Not sure he'd go for JuJu+ for Kupp...but maybe worth asking?
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?" You need to express interest in Adams and then later work Kupp into the conversation, like... Hm, I know you wanted picks and players for Adams... I might consider moving Kupp if Adams is coming back, how do you feel about Kupp?

Positional 1-1 offers always seem off to me as it's basically saying that I like your player more than the one I'm offering. Unless of course it's a team construction type thing like sending Julio to a contender for like Sutton on a rebuilding team.
yes, I like to assume all of my league mates as dunces waking up from a drunken stupor instead of just regular dudes that play fantasy football and have set values on all players. If this "gotcha!" crud works you should probably join a better league.

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby territdown33 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:03 pm

I've already sent Kupp for Adams...also sent Kupp + late first for Hopkins. Not sure whether Kupp isn't more valuable than JuJu at this point, and the owner is .500, barely in the playoffs (6 of 6), 6ppg behind 5th and 22.5 behind 1st. Not sure he'd go for JuJu+ for Kupp...but maybe worth asking?
[/quote]
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?"

😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 couldn’t of said it better so true

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby ninotoreS » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 pm

Considering Adams' struggles this year, that characterization doesn't make sense to me. Adams is a buy-low right now relative to what his pricetag was before the '19 season started. There exist leagues in which the Adams owner is worrying that his '18 season will end up a one-year wonder, and will be tempted to jump ship to a player that's currently waxing.

So, in that scenario...

"I doubt Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams will return to his '18 form sooner or later; if your views are inverted to mine then this is a logical trade for us."
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby ckrumm24 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 am

Krypto_King wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:19 pm
thebeast wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am
hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:40 pm


I've already sent Kupp for Adams...also sent Kupp + late first for Hopkins. Not sure whether Kupp isn't more valuable than JuJu at this point, and the owner is .500, barely in the playoffs (6 of 6), 6ppg behind 5th and 22.5 behind 1st. Not sure he'd go for JuJu+ for Kupp...but maybe worth asking?
I think it's hard to sell high on a guy when you are shopping him. Making an offer of Kupp for Adams is basically saying "I don't think Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams is better, are you dumb enough to think Kupp is better?" You need to express interest in Adams and then later work Kupp into the conversation, like... Hm, I know you wanted picks and players for Adams... I might consider moving Kupp if Adams is coming back, how do you feel about Kupp?

Positional 1-1 offers always seem off to me as it's basically saying that I like your player more than the one I'm offering. Unless of course it's a team construction type thing like sending Julio to a contender for like Sutton on a rebuilding team.
yes, I like to assume all of my league mates as dunces waking up from a drunken stupor instead of just regular dudes that play fantasy football and have set values on all players. If this "gotcha!" crud works you should probably join a better league.
I was going to say something similar. What feeble minded people are you playing with? And as someone else said, people have different opinions.
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby hoos89 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:25 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 pm
Considering Adams' struggles this year, that characterization doesn't make sense to me. Adams is a buy-low right now relative to what his pricetag was before the '19 season started. There exist leagues in which the Adams owner is worrying that his '18 season will end up a one-year wonder, and will be tempted to jump ship to a player that's currently waxing.

So, in that scenario...

"I doubt Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams will return to his '18 form sooner or later; if your views are inverted to mine then this is a logical trade for us."
Exactly...the Adams owner doesn't need to be dumb to accept that offer. Maybe I'm the dumb one for offering it. The characterization of this trade offer as a "gotcha" offer is unnecessarily cynical.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.x, 1.x, 2.03, 2.x, 2.x, 3.05, 3.x, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
2020 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.06, 1.x, 1.x, 2.x, 2.x

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby thebeast » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:39 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:25 pm
ninotoreS wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 pm
Considering Adams' struggles this year, that characterization doesn't make sense to me. Adams is a buy-low right now relative to what his pricetag was before the '19 season started. There exist leagues in which the Adams owner is worrying that his '18 season will end up a one-year wonder, and will be tempted to jump ship to a player that's currently waxing.

So, in that scenario...

"I doubt Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams will return to his '18 form sooner or later; if your views are inverted to mine then this is a logical trade for us."
Exactly...the Adams owner doesn't need to be dumb to accept that offer. Maybe I'm the dumb one for offering it. The characterization of this trade offer as a "gotcha" offer is unnecessarily cynical.
But that's exactly what it is. You think you are selling Kupp high and buying Adams low. You can characterize it however you like if it makes you feel better, but it is nonsensical to think other owners don't realize that Kupp is overachieving vs expecations and Adams is underachieving and I am sure if the Adams owner wanted to make a trade for Kupp he would come to you.

If you prefer my position player to yours then I expect you to be adding something to the offer unless your player is significantly "accepted" as being more valuable and you are looking for my player plus to downgrade.
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby djeternal2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:43 pm

thebeast wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:39 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:25 pm
ninotoreS wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 pm
Considering Adams' struggles this year, that characterization doesn't make sense to me. Adams is a buy-low right now relative to what his pricetag was before the '19 season started. There exist leagues in which the Adams owner is worrying that his '18 season will end up a one-year wonder, and will be tempted to jump ship to a player that's currently waxing.

So, in that scenario...

"I doubt Kupp will continue this production and I think Adams will return to his '18 form sooner or later; if your views are inverted to mine then this is a logical trade for us."
Exactly...the Adams owner doesn't need to be dumb to accept that offer. Maybe I'm the dumb one for offering it. The characterization of this trade offer as a "gotcha" offer is unnecessarily cynical.
But that's exactly what it is. You think you are selling Kupp high and buying Adams low. You can characterize it however you like if it makes you feel better, but it is nonsensical to think other owners don't realize that Kupp is overachieving and Adams is underachieving and I am sure if the Adams owner wanted to make a trade for Kupp he would come to you.

If you prefer my position player to yours then I expect you to be adding something to the offer unless your player is significantly "accepted" as being more valuable and you are looking for my player plus to downgrade.
Or the other owner thinks for him/her self and thinks Kupp will continue this and Adams last year was a fluke or that he's injury prone. The reason trades happen in dynasty for the most part is because ppl have different valuations of players. If everyone thought the same thing on players there would be very little trading.
10 tm ppr 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 2 Flex, TE, K, TDEF (Yr 6)
QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
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DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
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QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Dam Williams, J Howard, Crowell, Duke, AP, Gore, B Hill
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, Kumerow, N Harry
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby thebeast » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:23 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:43 pm
thebeast wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:39 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:25 pm


Exactly...the Adams owner doesn't need to be dumb to accept that offer. Maybe I'm the dumb one for offering it. The characterization of this trade offer as a "gotcha" offer is unnecessarily cynical.
But that's exactly what it is. You think you are selling Kupp high and buying Adams low. You can characterize it however you like if it makes you feel better, but it is nonsensical to think other owners don't realize that Kupp is overachieving and Adams is underachieving and I am sure if the Adams owner wanted to make a trade for Kupp he would come to you.

If you prefer my position player to yours then I expect you to be adding something to the offer unless your player is significantly "accepted" as being more valuable and you are looking for my player plus to downgrade.
Or the other owner thinks for him/her self and thinks Kupp will continue this and Adams last year was a fluke or that he's injury prone. The reason trades happen in dynasty for the most part is because ppl have different valuations of players. If everyone thought the same thing on players there would be very little trading.
There is typically trading to round out team needs, you know like I have an abundance of RBs but need a WR and you have the opposite... Or I'm rebuilding and you're contending, which is where you typically see a 1 for 1 trade, like here's an older more established WR (Thielen) for a young up and coming talent that isn't consistent yet (Marquise Brown) or something. We could debate this all day, but I think it is rare to successfully sell high on a guy when you are making offers to other owners who have studs who are underperforming when your offer is a 1 for 1.
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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby hoos89 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:58 am

Not sure what leagues you're in are like, but every league I've ever been in has more trading than just to round out team needs. There are plenty of deals that are more people going after their guys, and I definitely see positional 1:1 trades, even for guys of comparable age. I also wouldn't assume that just because someone hasn't offered a deal that they wouldn't take it (or send a counter that I like).

Also...I can't help but feel like maybe the community views Adams as a more established stud than he really is. He's had 3 double digit TD seasons but only 1 season over 1,000 yards. Yes he was the overall WR1 last season but (a) he's not like Nuk, MT, etc. who have several high WR1 seasons under their belts and (b) Kupp's last 16 games haven't been that far off Adams' 2018 (98/1,358/11 vs 111/1,386/13).
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.x, 1.x, 2.03, 2.x, 2.x, 3.05, 3.x, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
2020 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.06, 1.x, 1.x, 2.x, 2.x

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Re: Cooper Kupp is a WR1

Postby thebeast » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:40 am

hoos89 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:58 am
Not sure what leagues you're in are like, but every league I've ever been in has more trading than just to round out team needs. There are plenty of deals that are more people going after their guys, and I definitely see positional 1:1 trades, even for guys of comparable age. I also wouldn't assume that just because someone hasn't offered a deal that they wouldn't take it (or send a counter that I like).

Also...I can't help but feel like maybe the community views Adams as a more established stud than he really is. He's had 3 double digit TD seasons but only 1 season over 1,000 yards. Yes he was the overall WR1 last season but (a) he's not like Nuk, MT, etc. who have several high WR1 seasons under their belts and (b) Kupp's last 16 games haven't been that far off Adams' 2018 (98/1,358/11 vs 111/1,386/13).
Can you give me examples of the 1 for 1 deals from just one of your leagues? I am genuinely interested to see what those trades are. I looked over a few of my leagues and don't see any obvious 1 for 1's at the same position with comparable ages.
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