Jerick McKinnon Thread

[Balzac]

*thinking that guys on the sidelines in khaki's elevate the talent of a player*

This is simply unbelievable to me. How does one play fantasy, be involved in dynasty leagues, take the time to post on dynasty forums, and..... not understand that how a player is used in a system (which equates to opportunity) - relates to their fantasy production? Am I the only one that finds this just a tad off?

yes, opportunity to play is largely the only thing that matters.
But in most cases, coach worshipping is a narrative with no statistical support. Player performance is driven by that player's ability, and secondly by his supporting cast. Schedule strength, health, game flow, every other external factor matters more than coaching. Jon Gruden and Chip Kelly freely admit that the vast majority of team's run a version of the West Coast offense There is no magic play calling, because film is available to all teams.

Did you overdraft Jeremy Hill because Hue Jackson is a running back guru?

Did you draft Chales Johnson because Norv Turner got the most out of Josh Gordon?

Did you draft C.J. Anderson because he would be a apart of Gary Kubiak's famous zone stretch plays?

I'm not sure where you think opportunity comes from if not from a coach and his game plan for the player.

I'm on the side that didn't see anything too special from Mckinnon, but that was as a Viking. Shanny definitely increases his value. To what I dont know, but you would be foolish to not take note. Doesn't mean you blindly overpay when things start to look better. For those paying firsts I would caution you not to be too hasty. I wouldn't pay more than a 2nd, and that would still feel wrong.

[Jfever]

Balzac, I agree with your takes for the most part. I just don't think you could reasonably expect an owner to sell Mckinnon for a 2nd. There just seems to be (knowing what we / or most of us know) - too much evidence supporting the idea that he should be an integral part of a rb friendly system that has a proven track record (if your not aware, look it up) - of producing top producing rbs in fantasy. Mckinnon is young enough to have 4 plus years of fantasy relevance, he is the 4th highest paid rb in the league and was hand picked by a coach with "the" best track record with rb's. Digging your heals in and inferring that you'd feel wrong about a 2nd round value, in a way, spits in the face of what we typically see come from 2nd round picks. Does it not? Seems like you are simply conservative, which I understand, but, at the same time, are you perhaps overvaluing 2nd round picks?

[Gtdano_14]

This may be the best sell high player in recent memory. McKinnon is talented and should be valuable in PPR leagues. But not selling for anything less than a top 3-5 rookie pick for this "hand picked" RB? You are destined to be disappointed. He is roughly 4 years older than most/all of the incoming rookie RBs and youth is very heavily weighted as you are all aware. What if San Fran drafts a RB in the early rounds? Where are all the Joe Williams truthers from last year who said he was the guy to own because he was "hand picked" by Shanny? The more I read comments trying to convince me he will be great, the more I see fool's gold. I watched all the games last year as a Vikings fan and saw him grabbed off the waivers in my redraft leagues. I also saw how he wore down rushing the ball after a few games which opened the door for Murray and then I noticed him not starting on PPR fantasy rosters anymore due to his low numbers. His best chance for fantasy success in San Fran is 5-7 rushes per game max and lots of catches. Hopefully one of the other pass catching RBs doesn't cut into his receiving numbers...
I don't expect to change anyone's mind as I won't be changing mine before empirical data says otherwise. But I'm curious how objective we are being or just going off situation.

[broncohead]

Jag imo that is a good sell right now. Went for a 1st in my league. He's good at being athletic but when given the opportunity that's about all there was

You lost me at Jag

He couldn't take the lead back duties from Asiata. Prove me wrong.

[broncohead]

San Fran will be drafting a rb.

[Jfever]

Jag imo that is a good sell right now. Went for a 1st in my league. He's good at being athletic but when given the opportunity that's about all there was

You lost me at Jag

He couldn't take the lead back duties from Asiata. Prove me wrong.

lets say you have a bag of tools. In that bag you have a hammer and a screwdriver among multiple other tools. Which will you use to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture frame? Does your answer inherently mean that you don't then need a screwdriver at some point? Is your hammer "better" than your screw driver, does the material the wall is made of make any difference in your choice? Man... its as if we don't take any contextual information into consideration at all.

[clarion contrarion]

^^ does bill belichick have a winning record w/o tom brady
did chuck noll or don shula win much when all the hall of famers retired /
coach worship is hilarious and if the niners keep making moronical signings like mckinnon all their cap $ will go poof! in a hurry
where was the shanny genius before jimmy G arrived that team was a puke puddle
mckinnons contract is one of the 5 worst for skill players thus far in free agency right there with the idiot vikings fully guaranteeing 86 MM$ to a guy that has never won a playoff game the ryan grant to ravens hahahahahahaha ratbirds to the cellar in a long overdue happening the browns laughable contract to darren fells and the paul richardson deal to the skins in an annual DC event as they see politicians roasting through $$ like firewood so the skins GM does it as well . A down the field speed receiver for alex smith is like a left glove for shaquem griffin likely to go unused !

[Gtdano_14]

You lost me at Jag

He couldn't take the lead back duties from Asiata. Prove me wrong.

lets say you have a bag of tools. In that bag you have a hammer and a screwdriver among multiple other tools. Which will you use to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture frame? Does your answer inherently mean that you don't then need a screwdriver at some point? Is your hammer "better" than your screw driver, does the material the wall is made of make any difference in your choice? Man... its as if we don't take any contextual information into consideration at all.

So according to your hypothetical scenario, McKinnon is the screwdriver who will be used at times to do certain things and will not in fact be the jack of all trades, D. Freeman style RB I've heard about? You can read into it however you want, but McKinnon has had more chances than most non-starting RBs to take the reigns and could have easily been the guy for the majority of the season both before and after Cook was drafted and subsequently injured. Let's just get through the NFL draft first before McKinnon becomes a must own RB. Then the theoretical talk can continue until August/September.

[chopping mall]

All this back and forth without saying nutttin. Two things are true

1) McKinnon's efficiency #s to date should be alarming regardless of what spin you wanna give
2) the 49ers didn't pay him not to use him

so the question is what's that usage gonna be? That's how we can argue his "value" So here's a baseline and you can argue it up or down

rushing - 186 carries, 754 yards, 7 touchdowns
receving - 51 receptions 397 yards, 1 touchdown

it a full PPR league that's about 214 pts, in my half-point league that's about 189 pts and has him right at RB13.

having actual projections to work off of, what would you change up or down?

[broncohead]

He couldn't take the lead back duties from Asiata. Prove me wrong.

lets say you have a bag of tools. In that bag you have a hammer and a screwdriver among multiple other tools. Which will you use to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture frame? Does your answer inherently mean that you don't then need a screwdriver at some point? Is your hammer "better" than your screw driver, does the material the wall is made of make any difference in your choice? Man... its as if we don't take any contextual information into consideration at all.

So according to your hypothetical scenario, McKinnon is the screwdriver who will be used at times to do certain things and will not in fact be the jack of all trades, D. Freeman style RB I've heard about? You can read into it however you want, but McKinnon has had more chances than most non-starting RBs to take the reigns and could have easily been the guy for the majority of the season both before and after Cook was drafted and subsequently injured. Let's just get through the NFL draft first before McKinnon becomes a must own RB. Then the theoretical talk can continue until August/September.

This

[broncohead]

All this back and forth without saying nutttin. Two things are true

1) McKinnon's efficiency #s to date should be alarming regardless of what spin you wanna give
2) the 49ers didn't pay him not to use him

so the question is what's that usage gonna be? That's how we can argue his "value" So here's a baseline and you can argue it up or down

rushing - 186 carries, 754 yards, 7 touchdowns
receving - 51 receptions 397 yards, 1 touchdown

it a full PPR league that's about 214 pts, in my half-point league that's about 189 pts and has him right at RB13.

having actual projections to work off of, what would you change up or down?

Less rushing td, less yards, otherwise close imo.

[Accumen]

Shanahan

*thinking that guys on the sidelines in khaki's elevate the talent of a player*

Isn't that the whole point of a coach?

lol. Thank you, somebody tell this dude

[Accumen]

*thinking that guys on the sidelines in khaki's elevate the talent of a player*

This is simply unbelievable to me. How does one play fantasy, be involved in dynasty leagues, take the time to post on dynasty forums, and..... not understand that how a player is used in a system (which equates to opportunity) - relates to their fantasy production? Am I the only one that finds this just a tad off?

yes, opportunity to play is largely the only thing that matters.
But in most cases, coach worshipping is a narrative with no statistical support. Player performance is driven by that player's ability, and secondly by his supporting cast. Schedule strength, health, game flow, every other external factor matters more than coaching. Jon Gruden and Chip Kelly freely admit that the vast majority of team's run a version of the West Coast offense There is no magic play calling, because film is available to all teams.

Did you overdraft Jeremy Hill because Hue Jackson is a running back guru?

Did you draft Chales Johnson because Norv Turner got the most out of Josh Gordon?

Did you draft C.J. Anderson because he would be a apart of Gary Kubiak's famous zone stretch plays?

Mckinnon will be 2018's Goff... just watch

[Valhalla]

Get a look at the contract details and be ready for another value shift. The deal is essentially a 2 year deal- if be plays well (like he thinks he can), they can renegotiate it. If he doesn't, the 9ers can easily get out of the contract after 2 years. The guaranteed money is pretty much in those 1st 2 years.

That’s pretty standard for a rb contract. I’d expect it that way.
I also expect a decent rb to be drafted in round 3-5, at which time everyone will go into either panic mode or “I told you he was worthless all along and has always been worthless” mode.

I will continue to buy as the value drops following the NFL draft.

[Gtdano_14]

Get a look at the contract details and be ready for another value shift. The deal is essentially a 2 year deal- if be plays well (like he thinks he can), they can renegotiate it. If he doesn't, the 9ers can easily get out of the contract after 2 years. The guaranteed money is pretty much in those 1st 2 years.

That’s pretty standard for a rb contract. I’d expect it that way.
I also expect a decent rb to be drafted in round 3-5, at which time everyone will go into either panic mode or “I told you he was worthless all along and has always been worthless” mode.

I will continue to buy as the value drops following the NFL draft.

That's all this "hater" is trying to say. Sell him right now for that mid 1st this year I'm told he's worth. Then, buy after the 49ers acquire another RB via trade or draft.