Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread

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Pullo Vision
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Pullo Vision » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:30 pm

I shared this when Cousins was in a bad stretch last year.

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vik ... k-cousins/
The Vikings, in need for some salary cap relief, surprisingly extended Cousins this past March rather than seeing how things would play out this year and then offering an extension. The new contract gave Cousins a $10 million raise in 2020 and guaranteed him $21 million for 2021. He was paid a $30 million signing bonus this year as well. Those numbers right now are set in stone.

Things get trickier next year. If they were to cut Cousins, they will have to cut him a check for $21 million, basically meaning they paid an extra $31 million for whatever performance you are getting on the field this year. In my mind that kind of mistake puts you as a GM on the chopping block with ownership no matter what your track record is. However if they do not cut him by the 3rd day of the league year then his 2022 salary will become fully guaranteed. That salary is worth $35 million.

A trade is a more viable option. In a trade, the guarantee travels from Minnesota to the acquiring team, so the dead money is just $20 million. Cousins $21 million salary in 2021 would be acceptable to a team trading for him if they believe they can rehab him as $20 million is low end money for a starting veteran. The 2022 guarantee for $35 million could be problematic and would require a team to be pretty bullish on Cousins. There is also the possibility of reworking the contract to make it easier for another team.

The only type of team to be willing to trade for Cousins would be a team that envisions itself as a good football team with no avenue to obtain a starting QB. Those teams would include teams like the Colts and possibly the Bears and 49ers. Perhaps the Broncos would at least throw a feeler out there as well.
From a salary cap perspective, the key is a trade before the 3rd day of the new league year.
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby SStory93 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:37 am

If Kirk gets traded, does that bring down JJ's outlook? Cousins isn't an elite QB, but he is def in the categories of M.Staffords, D. Prescotts, R. Tannehills of the world for QB play.
12 Team PPR 2 Flex

QB: Hurts | Watson | Cousins
RB: Hall | Achane | Ekeler| Chubb | Kamara
WR: Hill | AJ Brown | Chase | Aiyuk
TE: Njoku | Waller

🏆: 2023


12 Team PPR SuperFlex IDP

QB: Hurts | Fields | Mayfield
RB: Bijan | Saquon | Ford
WR: Chase | Jefferson | AJ Brown | Metcalf | Puka | Collins
TE: Pitts | Freieemuth
DL: T. Watt
LB: White
DB: Adams | Kearse | Stingley

🏆: 2023

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murphysxm
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby murphysxm » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am

There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:30 am

murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Kirk has been a good QB. Far better than Bradford. So the answer is Bradford.
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby nathanq42 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:42 am

murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Easily Bradford. over 110 million and he played poorly for 83 games...

Breaking it down he made:
$1,325,301 per game
$3,235,294 per win
$2,291,667 per loss
$59,299 per completion
$37,074 per *ATTEMPT*
$5,656 per passing yard
$1,067,961 per TD

An absolute scam artist
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murphysxm
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby murphysxm » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:15 pm

Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:30 am
murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Kirk has been a good QB. Far better than Bradford. So the answer is Bradford.
Agreed, more tongue and cheek, I think they both got paid more than the deserved though
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby YouMightDieTryin » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:43 pm

Brock Osweiler has entered the chat.
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Valhalla » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:10 pm

Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:30 am
murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Kirk has been a good QB. Far better than Bradford. So the answer is Bradford.
I whole-heartedly disagree with this statement. One of these QBs puts up big stats against weaker teams and so his cumulative stats have looked better, sure. When pressure is coming, Kirk dependably will tuck in to avoid injury. Nothing wrong with that, but that's his style of play. He doesn't stand tall and take the hit while delivering the pass. He isn't quite Pondering it, but he's got a deer in headlights reaction. Bradford was the opposite (which is how and why he got injured as much as he did). He dependably stood tall and delivered some very pretty balls while getting hit, rather than curling up and taking the sack. He ended up paying the price with that chance game (getting badly injured) but I MUCH preferred the way he played the game. I don't care about cumulative stats as much as I care about leadership and playing through the moment of play breakdown. Bradford continued to push the team forward even when plays were breaking down. Cousins plays within the constructs of the play and if another player on the team messes up (missed or short-lived block, unforeseen blitz, etc) he takes the play as a loss. Give me Bradford in his health over Cousins (always healthy as he preserves himself instead of preserving his team's momentum).

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:18 pm

murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Cousins is firmly an above average QB. His problem is that he's only as good as his team, and he's never been on a great team. But, because he's an easy scapegoat and sometimes melts in big games, he takes a ton of blame.

Finished with 35 tds, 13 ints, 4,265 passing yards, 8.3 y/a this season. Solid numbers. Would imagine that Shanahan could sustain that and more considering they vouched for him when he entered the league as a rookie.

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:56 pm

Valhalla wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:10 pm
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:30 am
murphysxm wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 am There needs to be a cost anaylsis done on who stole more money as an NFL QB for being average. Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins.......
Kirk has been a good QB. Far better than Bradford. So the answer is Bradford.
I whole-heartedly disagree with this statement. One of these QBs puts up big stats against weaker teams and so his cumulative stats have looked better, sure. When pressure is coming, Kirk dependably will tuck in to avoid injury. Nothing wrong with that, but that's his style of play. He doesn't stand tall and take the hit while delivering the pass. He isn't quite Pondering it, but he's got a deer in headlights reaction. Bradford was the opposite (which is how and why he got injured as much as he did). He dependably stood tall and delivered some very pretty balls while getting hit, rather than curling up and taking the sack. He ended up paying the price with that chance game (getting badly injured) but I MUCH preferred the way he played the game. I don't care about cumulative stats as much as I care about leadership and playing through the moment of play breakdown. Bradford continued to push the team forward even when plays were breaking down. Cousins plays within the constructs of the play and if another player on the team messes up (missed or short-lived block, unforeseen blitz, etc) he takes the play as a loss. Give me Bradford in his health over Cousins (always healthy as he preserves himself instead of preserving his team's momentum).
Bradford was very good for his starts with the Vikings, I agree. But I can't ignore the injuries.

And I think Cousins gets too much hate. He's gotten incrementally better at his pocket presence. If he had the instincts and pocket presence of Rodgers, Cousins may be in that elite tier. He doesn't, and I think people should stop expecting it.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Kelldon » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:25 pm

You can say if Cousins had "this" or if he had "that" he would be elite, just like I could say if I had a 10" penis I would be in porn. Fact is I don't and Cousin's doesn't have those other things.

He is an average qb who in the bright lights of big games doesn't show up. Cousin's in Minnesota has had a good defense, has had Cook, Diggs, Thielen, and even Rudolph. Rudolph might not be a great fantasy TE but he is more than capable TE for real football. There are several if not many qb's who love to have had the weapons Cousin's has had.
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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:38 pm

Too much of the analysis re: Kirk Cousins is based on fairytale, make-believe bleep like whether or not he’s clutch. It’s embarrassing. The fact that people are saying they prefer Sam Bradford, who was a bad NFL quarterback to Cousins, is absolutely batshit. That’s an opinion of somebody who either doesn’t understand anything about football or needs to dial back their DMT dose. Holy bleep. Where’s the Tylenol?
COOGAN IS A CHEATER AND A THIEF

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby SStory93 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:46 pm

I know PFF isn't the be all end all, but Kirk Cousins has been a consistent B- to B player. This is also where Matt Stafford of the world has and Dak Prescotts of the world have predominately been. This is the range you typically see good starting QBs.

I am no K. Cousins fan, but he is extremely underappreciated.
12 Team PPR 2 Flex

QB: Hurts | Watson | Cousins
RB: Hall | Achane | Ekeler| Chubb | Kamara
WR: Hill | AJ Brown | Chase | Aiyuk
TE: Njoku | Waller

🏆: 2023


12 Team PPR SuperFlex IDP

QB: Hurts | Fields | Mayfield
RB: Bijan | Saquon | Ford
WR: Chase | Jefferson | AJ Brown | Metcalf | Puka | Collins
TE: Pitts | Freieemuth
DL: T. Watt
LB: White
DB: Adams | Kearse | Stingley

🏆: 2023

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:49 pm

Kelldon wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:25 pm You can say if Cousins had "this" or if he had "that" he would be elite, just like I could say if I had a 10" penis I would be in porn. Fact is I don't and Cousin's doesn't have those other things.

He is an average qb who in the bright lights of big games doesn't show up. Cousin's in Minnesota has had a good defense, has had Cook, Diggs, Thielen, and even Rudolph. Rudolph might not be a great fantasy TE but he is more than capable TE for real football. There are several if not many qb's who love to have had the weapons Cousin's has had.
Minnesota went 10-6 in 2019, beat New Orleans on the road in the Wildcard, and lost to a 49ers team who won 13 games and went to the Super Bowl. I think that's about as good as what that Vikings team was that year.

Cousins gets criticized a lot, but how many teams has he played on where you thought "Man, why didn't they make the Conference title game or a Super Bowl?" He plays on a lot of solid to good, but not great teams. But he's never the reason those teams aren't great.

He's a firm above average QB. Sure, you're probably not winning a SB with him, but above average QBs still hold a lot of value in the NFL.

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Re: Kirk Cousins

Postby SStory93 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:01 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:49 pm
Kelldon wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:25 pm You can say if Cousins had "this" or if he had "that" he would be elite, just like I could say if I had a 10" penis I would be in porn. Fact is I don't and Cousin's doesn't have those other things.

He is an average qb who in the bright lights of big games doesn't show up. Cousin's in Minnesota has had a good defense, has had Cook, Diggs, Thielen, and even Rudolph. Rudolph might not be a great fantasy TE but he is more than capable TE for real football. There are several if not many qb's who love to have had the weapons Cousin's has had.
Minnesota went 10-6 in 2019, beat New Orleans on the road in the Wildcard, and lost to a 49ers team who won 13 games and went to the Super Bowl. I think that's about as good as what that Vikings team was that year.

Cousins gets criticized a lot, but how many teams has he played on where you thought "Man, why didn't they make the Conference title game or a Super Bowl?" He plays on a lot of solid to good, but not great teams. But he's never the reason those teams aren't great.

He's a firm above average QB. Sure, you're probably not winning a SB with him, but above average QBs still hold a lot of value in the NFL.
PREACH!

He also a QB who has spit out top fantasy production for his WRs. (Jefferson, Thielen, Diggs)
12 Team PPR 2 Flex

QB: Hurts | Watson | Cousins
RB: Hall | Achane | Ekeler| Chubb | Kamara
WR: Hill | AJ Brown | Chase | Aiyuk
TE: Njoku | Waller

🏆: 2023


12 Team PPR SuperFlex IDP

QB: Hurts | Fields | Mayfield
RB: Bijan | Saquon | Ford
WR: Chase | Jefferson | AJ Brown | Metcalf | Puka | Collins
TE: Pitts | Freieemuth
DL: T. Watt
LB: White
DB: Adams | Kearse | Stingley

🏆: 2023

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