Jon gruden and amari Cooper

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marshallsnextarrest
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Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby marshallsnextarrest » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:27 am

With the hiring of Chucky what does this do to the outlook/value of Cooper? Cooper has been painful at times and I'm thinking of cutting bait. What do you guys see for his future?
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby bsacks13 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:42 am

I am kind of hoping that people are low on him because of his past, especially this year. He is so young though and talented that I think it is too early to give up on him. He is going to be available in Free Agency in my league this year and hoping I can buy him low. I HOPE his future is bright, because he has the skills. If you really want to cut bait, I would wait (if you can) until next season and sell him high after he has a big game.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby marshallsnextarrest » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:50 am

Yeah I have a hard time giving up talented young wrs. I would need a good return. I'm just curious how he fits in a gruden offense. Crabtree is likely gone by all reports and I don't quite remember what the wr1 looked like in gruden offense in the past.
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12 team Full ppr 50 man rosters w/3 man rookie taxi sqd, 8 rd rookie draft
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TE- cook, burton, ian thomas, thomas(hou) butt, asj
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby ericanadian » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:47 am

marshallsnextarrest wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:50 am
Yeah I have a hard time giving up talented young wrs. I would need a good return. I'm just curious how he fits in a gruden offense. Crabtree is likely gone by all reports and I don't quite remember what the wr1 looked like in gruden offense in the past.
Ressurgent Jerry Rice and Tim Brown in Oakland and a revolving door of old guys in Tampa with Galloway the only one with prolonged success. Clayton had his freak season, but I can't think of any young receivers that really developed under Gruden, which is probably not a good thing.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby Tvols » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:49 am

Well he has no where to go but up lol.. he has been horrible the last 18 months not just this past year and has anyone had more drops than cooper? There has been ton of wr with talent that haven’t produced ... so this depends on how much u like this Kid.. I want a wr that actually produces for the price even now that u have to give for cooper. Can cooper turn it around sure but it’s not like Gruden is some magical being.. he is a football coach lol..

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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:21 pm

There's no real way to know. It's not like Gruden is some WR whisperer. For the most part, Gruden teams haven't been good offensively, but that could change. Cooper is an intriguing buy low either way.

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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby Phaded » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:46 pm

There are two ways for Cooper to succeed.. Regardless of Gruden or not..

a) "Teach" Cooper to use his size and play more physical (extremely unlikely)
b) Move him around to give him space to work and have him work primarily out of the slot

With them reportedly releasing Crab, it will probably mean more targets but he will be facing tougher coverage more often.

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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby maxhyde » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:02 pm

I think Cooper is a solid buy right now...I sold many shares last year but I will be asking around to see what people are expecting in return
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby M-Dub » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 am

I don’t really see Gruden having any effect on Cooper’s value at all. If you still believe in Cooper, then you still believe in Cooper. If you don’t, you don’t. Gruden is pretty much irrelevant to the equation.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby ZPalmtree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:52 am

marshallsnextarrest wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:27 am
With the hiring of Chucky what does this do to the outlook/value of Cooper? Cooper has been painful at times and I'm thinking of cutting bait. What do you guys see for his future?
Why is now the time you decide to cut bait?

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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby gameaholica » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:59 am

1) Rice, Brown, Rison, Galloway

2) Gruden is a perfectionist... it will be good for Carr and Cooper. Hoping Gannon signs as a qb coach. Carr is already a lot like Rich Gannon work ethic wise, so I expect similar results. Cooper will have to fix his dropsies.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby WhatWouldDitkaDo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:06 am

I think Cooper is a fairly talented WR and that there's reason to be optimistic he can bounce back from this horrendous season, but I still don't think he's a "stud" WR prospect. My thinking is that Cooper would be a much better fit in the slot, and the best-case scenario would be a Golden Tate type of role where he can get in space over the middle of the field against slot CBs.

If OAK does cut Michael Crabtree though, I think Cooper's target share could be enormous in 2018, and there might be a ton of garbage time stats for him if they don't bolster that secondary. I could see a 2015 Allen Robinson kind of year, so I would buy Cooper this offseason if the price is palatable, but I would sell high on him as soon as his value got back to anywhere close to when he first entered the league. I'd buy Cooper if I can get him for 1.05/1.06 or later depending on how the NFL draft goes for some of the top 2018 rookie prospects.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby moishetreats » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Let's be honest: It's entirely an unknown.

Gruden's offenses in the past have been quite good and also quite ordinary. But, he hasn't had a young and talented QB like Carr AND a young and talented WR like Cooper in the past. And Gruden hasn't coached for a long time; what his offense will look like is nothing but speculation.

We do know that Gruden has high demands and expectations of his players, in terms of execution, fundamentals, and attitude. There's no reason to think that Cooper has a poor attitude (that's a bigger issue with Crabtree), but he has had some issues with fundamentals, of course. This could either be a godsend for Cooper, where he rises up to the demands, or a poor match.

Really, we just don't know. Definite reason for extreme optimism clouded with uncertainty.

Given the potential ceiling, I'd buy if he is being sold at WR2 prices or lower.
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby moishetreats » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:44 am

I did find this chart elsewhere, though. Looks like there might be reason for optimism with Cooper (though still a crapshoot in the end!):


GRUDEN'S LEADING WIDE RECEIVERS
1998 Tim Brown, Oak. 81 1,012 9
1999 Tim Brown, Oak. 90 1,344 6
2000 Tim Brown, Oak. 76 1,128 11
2001 Tim Brown, Oak. 91 1,165 10
2002 Key. Johnson, T.B. 76 1,088 5
2003 Kee. McCardell, T.B. 84 1,174 9
2004 Michael Clayton, T.B. 80 1,193 7
2005 Joey Galloway, T.B. 83 1,287 10
2006 Joey Galloway, T.B. 62 1,057 7
2007 Joey Galloway, T.B. 57 1,014 6
2008 Antonio Bryant, T.B. 83 1,248 7
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QB: Rodgers, Wilson, Wentz, Brissett
RB: Gurley, Gordon, Mixon, Edwards
WR: Hill, Cooper, Hilton, Edelman, Anderson, Slayton, Lazard, Arcega-Whiteside, Harmon, Meyers, S Miller
TE: Kelce, Henry, Herndon, Goedert, Jarwin, Walker, Alie-Cox, Moreau

2020: 3rd, 4thx2, 5thx3
2021: 2ndx2, 3rd, 5thx2



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RB: Barkley (38/22) A Jones (10/22), Mixon (30/20), Lindsay (11/21), Ja Williams (3/20)
WR: Cooper (28/20), Diggs (19/21), Allen (29/21), AJ Brown (7/23), R Anderson (3/21), C Davis (20/21)
TE: Ertz (22/21), Goedert (8/22)
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Re: Jon gruden and amari Cooper

Postby ericanadian » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:32 pm

moishetreats wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:44 am
I did find this chart elsewhere, though. Looks like there might be reason for optimism with Cooper (though still a crapshoot in the end!):


GRUDEN'S LEADING WIDE RECEIVERS
1998 Tim Brown, Oak. 81 1,012 9
1999 Tim Brown, Oak. 90 1,344 6
2000 Tim Brown, Oak. 76 1,128 11
2001 Tim Brown, Oak. 91 1,165 10
2002 Key. Johnson, T.B. 76 1,088 5
2003 Kee. McCardell, T.B. 84 1,174 9
2004 Michael Clayton, T.B. 80 1,193 7
2005 Joey Galloway, T.B. 83 1,287 10
2006 Joey Galloway, T.B. 62 1,057 7
2007 Joey Galloway, T.B. 57 1,014 6
2008 Antonio Bryant, T.B. 83 1,248 7
Clayton is the only young guy among that list and he was a one year wonder. Not sure that's great news for Cooper. Might be good news for whichever vet Gruden brings in to play opposite Cooper.
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