Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

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Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Life of Pablo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:43 am

What do you guys think about Lamar Miller next year? Anyone with knowledge wanna fill me in on his contract situation/the chances he'll be in a Texans uniform in 2018? I have both him and D'Onta Foreman... thinking of selling Miller now as I'm afraid he may be on a new team next year, and as a result he'll never get a big enough workload again to hold what peak value he has now. (Does anyone think he could be a 3-down/workhorse RB on a new team?)

But... if he stays in Houston, I want whoever is leading that backfield when Deshaun Watson is back. I'm still not convinced Watson will be a great real-life QB yet, but as far as fantasy goes he is probably the best thing that could've happened for that offense.

As an aside, I'm holding Foreman as I think there's a good chance he will be THE guy in 2018, although I believe others are ready to crown him well before he's earned/guaranteed it. Possible he could be a pre-emptive "sell high" to anyone anticipating him to be a bell cow next year?
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QB: Russ, Hurts, Wentz
RB: Chubb, JRob, Swift, DJ, Bell, Gurley
WR: Nuk, Diggs, Keenan, Evans, Hollywood, Mooney, Preston, Van
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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:42 pm

This gets discussed constantly but it's all pure speculation. We have NO way of knowing what they'll do, but if I had to guess I would guess that Miller is back.
BOTH TEAMS BELOW ARE 1QB

TEAM A - 12 teams (19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Brees, Tua, Wentz
COOK/JACOBS/MIXON, Dobbins, Swift, Hunt, Singletary, Bell, B Hill, Wilkins
NUK/HILL/GOLLADAY/K ALLEN, Diontae J, Hollywood, Ruggs, Pittman, Hilton, G Davis, Snead
KITTLE, Waller, Akins, H Bryant
-
Not listing my IDP, but they matter as much as offense in this league. Joey Bosa, Buckner, Sweat, and Cam Jordan are my main studs.
///
///
TEAM B - 32 teams, double copy - TEs get 1.5x bump in scoring
LAMAR, Cousins, Rivers, J Love
SAQUON/MIXON/CARSON, Dobbins, Lindsay, Mattison, Ingram, D Freeman, Clement
NUK/K ALLEN/JULIO/AROB, Evans, Thielen, DJ Moore, Lamb, Boyd, Coutee, Alshon
KITTLE/L Thomas, Ertz, Reed
Danielle Hunter, Aaron Donald, and Chris Jones are the cornerstones of my IDP squad.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby ericanadian » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm

Not sure why there is so much speculation that Miller will be cut. Houston doesn't have cap issues and teams need at least two dependable options at RB. I expect Foreman will be the primary rusher, but isn't he pretty much there already? At worst, Houston may push Miller to restructure, but even that seems unlikely.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Tannehill, Mariota
RB - Gordon, Cook, Penny, Guice, Harris, Laird, Love
WR - Julio, C. Davis, AJ Brown, Samuel, Washington, Di. Johnson, Isabella
TE - Henry, Andrews
LB - Kuechly, R. Smith
DL - Hunter, Armstead, Quinn
DB - D. James, Baker, Edmunds
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:07 pm

ericanadian wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm
Not sure why there is so much speculation that Miller will be cut. Houston doesn't have cap issues and teams need at least two dependable options at RB. I expect Foreman will be the primary rusher, but isn't he pretty much there already? At worst, Houston may push Miller to restructure, but even that seems unlikely.
Why do you say that? Just curious...
BOTH TEAMS BELOW ARE 1QB

TEAM A - 12 teams (19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Brees, Tua, Wentz
COOK/JACOBS/MIXON, Dobbins, Swift, Hunt, Singletary, Bell, B Hill, Wilkins
NUK/HILL/GOLLADAY/K ALLEN, Diontae J, Hollywood, Ruggs, Pittman, Hilton, G Davis, Snead
KITTLE, Waller, Akins, H Bryant
-
Not listing my IDP, but they matter as much as offense in this league. Joey Bosa, Buckner, Sweat, and Cam Jordan are my main studs.
///
///
TEAM B - 32 teams, double copy - TEs get 1.5x bump in scoring
LAMAR, Cousins, Rivers, J Love
SAQUON/MIXON/CARSON, Dobbins, Lindsay, Mattison, Ingram, D Freeman, Clement
NUK/K ALLEN/JULIO/AROB, Evans, Thielen, DJ Moore, Lamb, Boyd, Coutee, Alshon
KITTLE/L Thomas, Ertz, Reed
Danielle Hunter, Aaron Donald, and Chris Jones are the cornerstones of my IDP squad.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby ericanadian » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:23 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:07 pm
ericanadian wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm
Not sure why there is so much speculation that Miller will be cut. Houston doesn't have cap issues and teams need at least two dependable options at RB. I expect Foreman will be the primary rusher, but isn't he pretty much there already? At worst, Houston may push Miller to restructure, but even that seems unlikely.
Why do you say that? Just curious...
Foreman is the better north-south runner from everything that I've seen and is a way better option to soften up a defense which seems to be what O'Brien wants out of his rushing game. Foreman was in the doghouse and then immediately ended up out-carrying Miller in the very next game.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Tannehill, Mariota
RB - Gordon, Cook, Penny, Guice, Harris, Laird, Love
WR - Julio, C. Davis, AJ Brown, Samuel, Washington, Di. Johnson, Isabella
TE - Henry, Andrews
LB - Kuechly, R. Smith
DL - Hunter, Armstead, Quinn
DB - D. James, Baker, Edmunds
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Riffraff » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Miller's contract is nothing out of the ordinary for a starter. Blue is a free agent to create a roster opening. Fully expect another RB to be drafted that may or may not be as good as Foreman for depth. Rinse and repeat for the newest shiny toy that dynasty owners fawn over.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Goddard » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:10 pm

I expect it to look the same as it does this season.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby skip » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:53 pm

ericanadian wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:23 pm
lukkynumber13 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:07 pm
ericanadian wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm
Not sure why there is so much speculation that Miller will be cut. Houston doesn't have cap issues and teams need at least two dependable options at RB. I expect Foreman will be the primary rusher, but isn't he pretty much there already? At worst, Houston may push Miller to restructure, but even that seems unlikely.
Why do you say that? Just curious...
Foreman is the better north-south runner from everything that I've seen and is a way better option to soften up a defense which seems to be what O'Brien wants out of his rushing game. Foreman was in the doghouse and then immediately ended up out-carrying Miller in the very next game.
I don't agree with any of this as it relates to Foreman. The team has continued to use Miller as their featured runner and he's performing more consistently. Foreman has had his moments but is better as a complimentary option. Houston has shown no signs of changing their current usage.
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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Bot101 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:20 pm

I took the leap and traded for him today. I am banking on him being the lead back. Ive personally seen enough flashes to believe he will be the guy there over Miller at some point, hopefully next year.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby sugbear65 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:11 am

Umm, I'm a little lost here I guess. I thought I liked Foreman more than most, a top prospect for me that I had ranked above guys like Hunt, Perine in the draft process. So I'd say that I'm a fan. I also would say what in the heck has he done that makes some of you think he's outperformed or looked better than Miller this year. Flashes? Like two or three single plays on the season u mean? I just don't get it. After 8 games, or half the season, he has under 250 rushing yards. He has zero TDs. Oh and he caught 3 passes.
Look I'm not trying to knock him, I like him a lot moving toward and he's firmly a buy for me. But to insinuate he's somehow been better than Miller this year or a better fit for the offseason seems like a false narrative and just, to me, faulty advice. Your buying on projection with this guy, not performance so far.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby dmac37 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:07 am

Goddard wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:10 pm
I expect it to look the same as it does this season.
For 2018 I think this may be the case. I must admit I thought by now Miller would look to be very ineffective but he has looked much better than he did last year. Foreman is still a hold but we may need to be more patient than we thought before the season began.
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QB: Rodgers, Mayfield
RB: Sanders, A. Jones, Hunt, J. Kelley, Freeman, B. Scott, J. Jackson, Gore
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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Bot101 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:09 am

sugbear65 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:11 am
Umm, I'm a little lost here I guess. I thought I liked Foreman more than most, a top prospect for me that I had ranked above guys like Hunt, Perine in the draft process. So I'd say that I'm a fan. I also would say what in the heck has he done that makes some of you think he's outperformed or looked better than Miller this year. Flashes? Like two or three single plays on the season u mean? I just don't get it. After 8 games, or half the season, he has under 250 rushing yards. He has zero TDs. Oh and he caught 3 passes.
Look I'm not trying to knock him, I like him a lot moving toward and he's firmly a buy for me. But to insinuate he's somehow been better than Miller this year or a better fit for the offseason seems like a false narrative and just, to me, faulty advice. Your buying on projection with this guy, not performance so far.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I dont believe Miller has had any or only a couple big gains, whereas Foreman has made some very impressive looking plays when the Texan coaches aren't telegraphing to the world that they are running the ball. I actually think Miller looks better now than he did the first few weeks. It seems to me he is better splitting touches than being a bellcow. Which of course was some peoples belief already.

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby Vcize » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:27 am

sugbear65 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:11 am
Umm, I'm a little lost here I guess. I thought I liked Foreman more than most, a top prospect for me that I had ranked above guys like Hunt, Perine in the draft process. So I'd say that I'm a fan. I also would say what in the heck has he done that makes some of you think he's outperformed or looked better than Miller this year. Flashes? Like two or three single plays on the season u mean? I just don't get it. After 8 games, or half the season, he has under 250 rushing yards. He has zero TDs. Oh and he caught 3 passes.
Look I'm not trying to knock him, I like him a lot moving toward and he's firmly a buy for me. But to insinuate he's somehow been better than Miller this year or a better fit for the offseason seems like a false narrative and just, to me, faulty advice. Your buying on projection with this guy, not performance so far.
I agree. I was very high on Foreman headed into the year (and still am) and made moves to get him in all 3 of my dynasties. He has looked decent so far, however people are treating this like Foreman is blowing up for 5.5ypc while the coach is stubbornly sticking with Miller banging away at 2.5ypc. The reality is that they've been pretty similar as runners (Foreman maybe a little better) while Miller has contributed a lot more to the passing game.

I was certainly prepared for his first season to be a wash, but I was hoping it would be more clear by now that Miller would not be worth Houston keeping next year with a decent out in his contract. However right now it looks like using the two in tandem may be the best path for the Texans to continue down even beyond this year.
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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby ericanadian » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:29 am

sugbear65 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:11 am
Umm, I'm a little lost here I guess. I thought I liked Foreman more than most, a top prospect for me that I had ranked above guys like Hunt, Perine in the draft process. So I'd say that I'm a fan. I also would say what in the heck has he done that makes some of you think he's outperformed or looked better than Miller this year. Flashes? Like two or three single plays on the season u mean? I just don't get it. After 8 games, or half the season, he has under 250 rushing yards. He has zero TDs. Oh and he caught 3 passes.
Look I'm not trying to knock him, I like him a lot moving toward and he's firmly a buy for me. But to insinuate he's somehow been better than Miller this year or a better fit for the offseason seems like a false narrative and just, to me, faulty advice. Your buying on projection with this guy, not performance so far.
Miller is clearly the better pass protector and receiver out of the backfield. Miller has also shown to struggle with a bellcow workload. The team drafted backs reasonably early two years in a row to address this. Ervin was a flop, so he's a non-entity to me at this point. They bring in Foreman, who is a huge downhill runner with limited skills on passing downs. If they want to move work from Miller to Foreman, it's going to be rushing work. Miller will continue to out produce Foreman for fantasy purposes and will have a significant lead in snap counts, but I still think that Foreman is going to end up taking over more than half the rushing workload in terms of carries. He wears out a defense and from what I've seen O'Brien seems to like that. I don't think Foreman is going to be a bellcow, but it could approach a Hill/Gio type split, though I think Miller will likely hold a bit more work than Gio did.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Tannehill, Mariota
RB - Gordon, Cook, Penny, Guice, Harris, Laird, Love
WR - Julio, C. Davis, AJ Brown, Samuel, Washington, Di. Johnson, Isabella
TE - Henry, Andrews
LB - Kuechly, R. Smith
DL - Hunter, Armstead, Quinn
DB - D. James, Baker, Edmunds
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: Lamar Miller (and D'Onta Foreman) in 2018

Postby skip » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:49 am

Bot101 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:09 am
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I dont believe Miller has had any or only a couple big gains, whereas Foreman has made some very impressive looking plays when the Texan coaches aren't telegraphing to the world that they are running the ball.
I was discussing this with someone just last night. I'd liken Foreman to someone like Dave Kingman or Reggie Jackson. Home runner hitter that strikes out a lot. Miller has fewer big plays but is more consistent and a more complete back.
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