Dynasty League Football Forum

italian_stallion21 wrote:Well it just means I'll be using a rookie pick for whoever CLE drafts now, since Greg Little isn't a very good WR3, never mind being THE guy.

Except Cleveland didnt draft one wr....which means Little is the wr to own here.

uscman wrote: Gordon's real addiction is not thinking. It's not weed, it's not being able to rationalize what actions will cause such consequences. He just doesn't think.

That's addiction my friend.

Do you honestly think that not once when Gordon was smoking pot the notion of consequences even crossed his mind for a brief moment'? Of course they did, but he chose to ignore those thoughts.

uscman wrote:And you guys should read the interview with Nate Jackson on marijuana in the NFL. It makes me think that pill addiction in the NFL is much worse than marijuana. One is legal, one is not. But me personally I'm trusting a marijuana "addict" much more than a pill addict, even if it is legal with a prescription.

Who are you arguing with when you say "you guys". Has anyone taken an anti-pot stance in this thread yet? It would seem that most everyone is on board with your same thoughts on weed...

Water Buffalo wrote:

uscman wrote: Gordon's real addiction is not thinking. It's not weed, it's not being able to rationalize what actions will cause such consequences. He just doesn't think.

That's addiction my friend.

Do you honestly think that not once when Gordon was smoking pot the notion of consequences even crossed his mind for a brief moment'? Of course they did, but he chose to ignore those thoughts.

If you want to point out that acting irrational fits under the definition of addiction, that's fine.

But I think from your comments we can still agree that physical addiction and psychological addiction are different.

Assuming we can agree on that, my point is that I feel vastly less sympathy (basically zero) for someone who suffers a psychological addiction they can't kick compared to someone who suffers a physical addiction. Just my perspective.

The U.S. Constitution provides the federal government with zero authority to regulate any drug or substance, whether recreational or medical. That, my friends is relegated to the Tenth amendment and for the States or localities to decide how they want to handle drugs. I also am of the opinion, from countless interactions with friends and family that Marijuana is a FAR less dangerous drug than alcohol. No need to look any further than my wife's uncle who has been locked up many times for being drunk in public, fighting, damaging private and public property and just generally being totally unpredictable when consuming alcohol. When he gets high? Never had one issue with the law, and just wants to sit around laughing and eating doritos. So, I think anyone who says weed is more harmful than booze is naïve, uninformed or ignorant. My opinion.....

Anyways, now that that's out of the way, the NFL is a league that you freely choose to join. The NFL would have every right to say that no NFL affiliated personnel shall wear a watch, at any time, lest they face fines and suspension. As long as that rule is clearly stated, you either follow the rule or you can not play in the NFL.

So, if Gordon doesn't like that the NFL won't allow him to smoke up, then he can go the way of Rickey Williams and leave the game to pursue what makes him happy in life.

Rules are the rules.

steelman wrote:I agree with that fully, but at the same time, when he got into the NFL he knew the rules and he knew the consequences for not following the rules. I am not against smoking weed whatsoever, but if your employer forbids it and actually tests for it, then someone would have to be pretty damn stupid to smoke it anyway.

Don't like the rules, find a new job that doesn't have drug testing. Gordon chose to join the NFL despite their rules regarding drugs and now he's paying the price. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

I would personally like to smoke weed in public, have a beer while driving (not the same as drive drunk), etc. but I don't do those things because they are illegal and I don't want to have to deal with the consequences.

Aldon Smith has had two DUI's
Multiple felony weapons possessions
And yelled "bomb" in an airport. The drug policy is broken.
I'm of the belief that the Browns and Gordon already have some assurances from the league that his appeal will knock the suspension down to 2-6 games. The system is still a joke regardless of the outcome.

Rustyram78 wrote:The U.S. Constitution provides the federal government with zero authority to regulate any drug or substance, whether recreational or medical.

This is pretty much untrue. The constitution gives the federal government power over interstate commerce. This is probably incredibly more power than was originally intended, but it is how federal power works according to the constitution. Unless those drugs are produced, sold, and consumed without ever crossing state lines the federal government has authority to regulate them. I am not a constitutional lawyer, so I am not certain about the power to regulate substances that are produced, sold, consumed in one state however I would not be surprised if the states agreed to cede some of their power in this manner when the FDA was created.

To those arguing about whether or not this is a physical addiction - it really doesn't matter. Because either way it is an addiction. Just because you don't vomit and shake from quitting does not mean it is any harder for some people to stop. Additionally, cocaine is pretty much not at all physically addictive, so why not compare to that? Everyone recognizes cocaine is still pretty addictive, and I think those claiming that psychological addiction is somehow less real would not have lumped cocaine into that category.

To those talking about other crimes by NFL players: you are 100% right. These guys should be punished just as much or more than Gordon is for his marijuana violations. Do note that Big Ben got punished for things he was never convicted of. Also note that Gordon is a repeat offender, Ray Rice has to my knowledge not been caught being physically abusive before. I still think he deserves a long suspension.

Finally, I don't really care if someone wants to smoke weed. I don't, and have never done it, but think it should probably be legal. Do it in your home, don't drive a car, and I don't care. The problem, though, is that this is a rule and he broke it. He knew it was a rule, has broken it before, and yet still knowingly violated it. He knew he was going to be tested, but still broke the rule. He deserves the punishment he is supposed to get. I don't care if it should or should not be against the rules, there are a lot of dumb rules and laws that we probably wish we could violate all the time, but we follow them because they are the rules/law and if we don't follow them, most of us understand and accept that there may be consequences.

Csl312 wrote: Additionally, cocaine is pretty much not at all physically addictive, so why not compare to that?

Because actually, it's quite physically addictive. Thats' why.

But on topic, I've heard players over the years talk about marijuana use in the NFL. It seems that if you're not in the substance abuse program, you're aware of the time periods when the league will conduct tests. It's my understanding that they don't pull random samples from players unless they are in stage 1. So there are players in the league right now who get high, but give themselves enough time to let the THC work its way out of their system so they can provide a clean sample when required.

If the reports are accurate and Gordon is suspended, it's a shame for the Browns and their fans. He knew he was subject to random testing and took a gamble. Possibly a multi-million dollar gamble, and that's just mind-boggling to regular guys like us.

However, it will be interesting if the NFL ends up softening its stance on marijuana; possibly allowing use for concussion symptoms as discussed. Would they then revisit past transgressions for players? Gordon's a great talent, hopefully he can get right.

Shoreline Steamers wrote:

Csl312 wrote: Additionally, cocaine is pretty much not at all physically addictive, so why not compare to that?

Because actually, it's quite physically addictive. Thats' why.

But on topic, I've heard players over the years talk about marijuana use in the NFL. It seems that if you're not in the substance abuse program, you're aware of the time periods when the league will conduct tests. It's my understanding that they don't pull random samples from players unless they are in stage 1. So there are players in the league right now who get high, but give themselves enough time to let the THC work its way out of their system so they can provide a clean sample when required.

If the reports are accurate and Gordon is suspended, it's a shame for the Browns and their fans. He knew he was subject to random testing and took a gamble. Possibly a multi-million dollar gamble, and that's just mind-boggling to regular guys like us.

However, it will be interesting if the NFL ends up softening its stance on marijuana; possibly allowing use for concussion symptoms as discussed. Would they then revisit past transgressions for players? Gordon's a great talent, hopefully he can get right.

This is the most irritating part about the league's substance abuse policy. I would say that it's a virtual certainty that upwards of 50% of the players in the league are violating the policy but unless you get put in stage 1, you aren't RANDOMLY tested. Gordon and Blackmon were both put in stage 1 as a result of actions prior to entering the league I believe. I know that Blackmon's DUI came before he signed a contract...therefore he really shouldn't have been put in the substance abuse program (and without random testing we might not have ever heard of these issues again). I'm not sure what the specifics of Gordon's situation are, but I was under the impression that he was put in the substance abuse program as a result of failed tests in college. At any rate, I agree with all of those that say players should follow the rules, etc...but in the case of the league's substance abuse policy the rules don't apply equally to everyone. Let's see the league randomly test everyone and see how many players are left on Sunday. Take TRich for example...that dude looks like he stays high...and plays like it too...at least Gordon and Blackmon brought their hard hats and lunch pails to the field.

Just curious where he's at now. Pre-NFL draft we were looking at a guy who was a top 5 in DLF's April mocks. Now we've got suspension notice, but not actual amount of games. Obviously this news, regardless of suspension, reminds us that this is a player who has significant risk attached.

So, when do you pull the trigger?

Shoreline Steamers wrote:
Because actually, it's quite physically addictive. Thats' why.

But on topic, I've heard players over the years talk about marijuana use in the NFL. It seems that if you're not in the substance abuse program, you're aware of the time periods when the league will conduct tests. It's my understanding that they don't pull random samples from players unless they are in stage 1. So there are players in the league right now who get high, but give themselves enough time to let the THC work its way out of their system so they can provide a clean sample when required.

Everything I have learned about cocaine withdrawal is that the symptoms are are psychological in nature. That isn't exactly physical. I could have learned incorrectly though having not worked with those withdrawing from cocaine nor experienced it myself.

That's not the point of the discussion though. You are right the drug testing rules are nonsense and testing should be done the same way for everyone. I also think that if you are going to tell players when they will be tested there is no point to even doing the testing. As an aside those not in the abuse program who do get caught must be incredibly unintelligent.

I guess value wise he'd still be in the 30-40 range in a startup for me. However, I'm not going to take a player in the 3rd/4th round of a startup that is going to be sitting on my bench for a year. I like to win now AND later. There's plenty of other productive young players that I would rather take where Gordon is going to be drafted.

The fact that there are even 2 people in the world that still considers Gordon a top 10 WR is astonishing.

Even the people who voted "right below sammy watkins" are insane.

Please someone explain to me their reasoning behind essentially valuing Gordon the same as Watkins.

I can't wait until the next story comes out saying that poor Josh Gordon has been screwed by the system, is actually an amazing person, and has now completely turned over a new leaf.

I wouldnt give up anything more than a mid 2nd round rookie pick for him

49ersFaithful80 wrote:The fact that there are even 2 people in the world that still considers Gordon a top 10 WR is astonishing.

Even the people who voted "right below sammy watkins" are insane.

Please someone explain to me their reasoning behind essentially valuing Gordon the same as Watkins.

I can't wait until the next story comes out saying that poor Josh Gordon has been screwed by the system, is actually an amazing person, and has now completely turned over a new leaf.

I wouldnt give up anything more than a mid 2nd round rookie pick for him

Continuing to fight the good fight!

49ersFaithful80 wrote:The fact that there are even 2 people in the world that still considers Gordon a top 10 WR is astonishing.

Even the people who voted "right below sammy watkins" are insane.

Please someone explain to me their reasoning behind essentially valuing Gordon the same as Watkins.

I can't wait until the next story comes out saying that poor Josh Gordon has been screwed by the system, is actually an amazing person, and has now completely turned over a new leaf.

I wouldnt give up anything more than a mid 2nd round rookie pick for him

This gave me a pretty good laugh.