Josh Gordon Thread: Reinstatement (Deja Vu)

[Water Buffalo]

It really depends on how you want to build your team and how much risk you're willing to take on.

I voted "top 40, right after Fitz", but admittedly I don't have Fitz that high and I'd take Gordon over him. Looking at the general pool of names in that area though, according to ADP data, yeah, I think that's right where he belongs.

[Shoreline Steamers]

the drug testing rules are nonsense and testing should be done the same way for everyone. I also think that if you are going to tell players when they will be tested there is no point to even doing the testing. As an aside those not in the abuse program who do get caught must be incredibly unintelligent.

I don't know if they're not smart, but they're making poor decisions. Granted, with the latest CBA you've got to be selected in the first few rounds or make it to your 2nd contract to earn "retirement" kind of money. But I still can't wrap my head around what it would be like to have that kind of talent, and not be able to abstain from marijuana for 3-5 years (if you're lucky) to set your family up for life?

When you retired, you could move to Washington or Colorado (and whatever other states hop on board) and indulge as much as you like. They were also supposed to have HGH testing as part of that last CBA. Funny that hasn't been implemented yet...Since 2011

The way some of these cases have gone down though, I'm wondering if Gordon has some plausible "tainted sample" claim? Like Richard Sherman's broken cup. Maybe something else about the process he could object to? Until something concrete comes down on this, you can always hold out hope.

[lostcause]

He's smoking weed. It's the dumbest criminalized drug law in the country. It's also the dumbest vice to throw away a billion dollar paycheck for. He's 23, he's not a kid. He's a grown man that has made a choice and now gets to cope with what that choice means for his life. Maybe he chooses weed over football, millions have chosen drugs/alcohol over realizing their full potential - it's what people do. He's not bad for it. He's not good for it. He's just a guy. In my personal opinion, he's selfish and acted in a manner detrimental to his employer, himself and teammates - not because weed is bad, but because he knew he couldn't use it while working at his profession.

[Coeur de Lion]

Evidently reality has yet to sink in for quite a few folks -- Gordon is an end of bench lottery ticket and nothing more at this point. Regardless of what he did last year and what stage of the substance abuse program he was in, the only thing that matters now is that he's in stage three moving forward, which means 10x monthly drug tests for the rest of his career, with a mandatory year or more off if he fails one. To even set foot on an NFL field again, he needs to pass roughly 120 drug tests in a row. Given his lengthy history, that appears hugely unlikely to happen. There's a very real chance that he never catches another pass in the NFL.

He's not top 10 -- he's not top 50 -- he's not even close to a top 100 player at this point. If you can find a sucker willing to pay for him then take what you can get.

[joeday]

Ugh, so a few months ago I go against my best judgement and trade for him. In 10 leagues I only have him in 2 of them, but still...I blame Georg!

[NJKV]

Evidently reality has yet to sink in for quite a few folks -- Gordon is an end of bench lottery ticket and nothing more at this point. Regardless of what he did last year and what stage of the substance abuse program he was in, the only thing that matters now is that he's in stage three moving forward, which means 10x monthly drug tests for the rest of his career, with a mandatory year or more off if he fails one. To even set foot on an NFL field again, he needs to pass roughly 120 drug tests in a row. Given his lengthy history, that appears hugely unlikely to happen. There's a very real chance that he never catches another pass in the NFL.

He's not top 10 -- he's not top 50 -- he's not even close to a top 100 player at this point. If you can find a sucker willing to pay for him then take what you can get.

Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving drunk and still played in the league after that. I think a failed drug test for Marijuana (Yes I know the first one was a codeine he will be able to be reinstated. You wouldn't pay a 4th this guy? a 3rd? Those guys are fliers anyways. Some of those guys will wash out of the league before their rookie contract. I will take a flier on a guy who lead the NFL in Receiving yards the year prior, drugs and all. Call me a sucker I guess.

[Coeur de Lion]

Evidently reality has yet to sink in for quite a few folks -- Gordon is an end of bench lottery ticket and nothing more at this point. Regardless of what he did last year and what stage of the substance abuse program he was in, the only thing that matters now is that he's in stage three moving forward, which means 10x monthly drug tests for the rest of his career, with a mandatory year or more off if he fails one. To even set foot on an NFL field again, he needs to pass roughly 120 drug tests in a row. Given his lengthy history, that appears hugely unlikely to happen. There's a very real chance that he never catches another pass in the NFL.

He's not top 10 -- he's not top 50 -- he's not even close to a top 100 player at this point. If you can find a sucker willing to pay for him then take what you can get.

Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving drunk and still played in the league after that. I think a failed drug test for Marijuana (Yes I know the first one was a codeine he will be able to be reinstated. You wouldn't pay a 4th this guy? a 3rd? Those guys are fliers anyways. Some of those guys will wash out of the league before their rookie contract. I will take a flier on a guy who lead the NFL in Receiving yards the year prior, drugs and all. Call me a sucker I guess.

Donte Stallworth is absolutely 100% irrelevant here, as is any other anecdotal evidence from before the implementation of the current NFL substance abuse policy. I find the NFL's current policies to be draconian and invasive, as well as stupid and short-sighted. If it were up to me, Ray Rice would be the guy worried about getting kicked out of the league, and Josh Gordon would be allowed to smoke as much weed as he wants, as long as he's not getting arrested and tarnishing the shield. But guess what? That's all irrelevant too. The only thing that matters here is the actual policy, and Gordon's chances of successfully negotiating 10 tests / month for a year before he can even apply for reinstatement. Based on what I know about addiction and what we've seen from Gordon thus far, those look like long odds to me. There's not much point in trying to apply logic to an illogical NFL policy IMO -- I'd rather just take the policy as it is and assess based upon that.

[Nixon]

I voted "right before Blackmon" but I probably wouldn't draft either, honestly. I agree with the above poster and think Ray Rice et al should be the ones worried about losing their job. On the flip side, I don't see a problem with the NFL banning/being drug free as it is up to them. They pay these guys, just as any other employer does, and they have the right to make that determination. Where it breaks down for me is how they treat drug use/addiction as a bigger problem than domestic violence, or any other criminal activity. When someone can shoot themselves with an illegal gun and come back into the league, yet someone who smokes pot is getting suspended, there is a massive problem with the system.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

Agreed with above, but I'd much rather Gordon than a guy wholl likely never make a difference on my team. People saying theyd rather a flier wholl likely be irrelevant are overreacting. Yes I understand how stupid Gordon is, and that he may never play again. But his talent alone is worth more than a lot of guys. Brandon Browner is still playing this upcoming year, and he was suspended "indefinitaly" as well. Now i know that his history isnt as bad, just another name to remember. In terms of an appeal, im sure theyll try and claim that hes only in stage 2 due to his reduced suspension last year, meaning theres a chance hes gone for less than the year. Even with no faith in the guy, if he comes back at all this year hes worth a decent amouint hoping you can flip him when he starts playing. This is speaking more from owning him rather than drafting, if i were drafting i doubt id pick him

[dm1129]

It's impossible to determine because nobody on these forums knows what the facts are at this point.

[ccj]

It's impossible to determine because nobody on these forums knows what the facts are at this point.

Since when was market value determined by facts

If you're at 3.01 in a start up at this very second and you have 1 hour to pick. Gordon is there, do you pick him? That's my break point, I pick him there. I'm trying to determine market value now to see if I want to attempt to trade for him.

[CrimsonKodiak]

It's impossible to determine because nobody on these forums knows what the facts are at this point.

Its entirely possible to determine. I know my own value that I place on Gordon, everyone else knows what there value is. The overall average consensus becomes his ADP value right now.

We make value decisions all the time based on incomplete information. If the incomplete knowledge changes in a week then his value changes. It is a fluid dynamic.

I had reservations before this rumour came out, I have even more reservations now. I honestly don't need to deal with the drama associated with Gordon so I'm happy to sell him and if he turns out to be a stud for 10 years, then so be it. It wouldn't be the first time I've "lost" a trade. but to not have to worry about whether he is going to play on any given Sunday, its worth it.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

It's impossible to determine because nobody on these forums knows what the facts are at this point.

Its entirely possible to determine. I know my own value that I place on Gordon, everyone else knows what there value is. The overall average consensus becomes his ADP value right now.

We make value decisions all the time based on incomplete information. If the incomplete knowledge changes in a week then his value changes. It is a fluid dynamic.

I had reservations before this rumour came out, I have even more reservations now. I honestly don't need to deal with the drama associated with Gordon so I'm happy to sell him and if he turns out to be a stud for 10 years, then so be it. It wouldn't be the first time I've "lost" a trade. but to not have to worry about whether he is going to play on any given Sunday, its worth it.

The comment about the ADP is part true and part false, its not an average of everyones opinion, its the average of where hes drafted. His ADP will likely be higher than his trade value/ the general consensus of his value because in drafts, it onlytakes one person to take the risk and pick him. That person may now wait a round or two hoping hes there later because of the opinions of others, but i dont think his ADP will fully reflect the range of opinions of his value.

[dm1129]

It's possible if you base your decisions on rumors.......clearly you do.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

who was that last comment referring to?