Josh Gordon Thread: Reinstatement (Deja Vu)

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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby kris_kapsner » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:12 pm

dm1129 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:53 pm To put it bluntly, I do not know what the posters who think Gordon is one dimensional are looking at. In his return game after being out of football for over a 1000 days against a very good/elite cb, he caught passes from both the slot as well as the outside WR positions while running nearly every route in the route tree. Ironically, Gordon is the opposite of a player who just looks good from the numbers. In this game, he caught 4 of 11 targets. Just looking at the numbers you would think 'meh' or 'yikes', but when actually looking at tape, it becomes clear that he could have had a monster game with even an average QB. His Pro Day 40 is 4.52, but it is obvious he plays much faster than that. He routinely gets behind defenses time after time. His playing speed is elite. I do not view his hands as a problem. In 2013 when he led the league in receiving, he had 8 drops on 159 targets. For context, in that same year Calvin Johnson had 8 drops on 157 targets while having a lower catch percentage than Gordon. Calvin also averaged over 100 ypg while surpassing 100 yards in half his games and the Lions had a losing record in those games. I mention Johnson because to me Gordon is a similar type of WR. Gordon will never be as crisp in route running as an AB or OBJ, but he is also a completely different WR physically and can dominate physically in a way that they cannot. It has to be kept in mind that Gordon has played his entire career with bad to horrific QB play.

What is his potential? His potential is to be the WR1, but several things would have to line up for that to happen in the same way things for AB or OBJ, etc..have to line up in a season for them to be the WR1. I have zero concern about his talent on the field. The QB situation is very likely to improve significantly and Gordon will have a complete off-season to get into football shape and develop chemistry with the QB. The risk with Gordon is off the field. No one knows with any certainity he will be successful at staying clean.
I was thinking the same thing when watching him play again this year. I honestly didn't think he'd come back and be nearly the same guy...hence not even bothering to go after him prior to his return. But, I was thoroughly impressed. He was doing it all, short, medium and deep routes upon his return without any time to even get on the same page with his rookie QB who was arguably one of the least accurate this year in the league.

He has a different game than OBJ and Brown. So does Dez Bryant and he was a #1 top flight WR three years in a row. Talent isn't an issue with Gordon and he's not one dimensional. Might he get suspended? Yes, a definite possibility, perhaps even banned from the league. Might the surrounding cast and coaching schemes suppress his numbers? Yes, that may happen as well. But, the sky is the limit as far as his on field talent goes.
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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby The Showstopper » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:27 pm

I’m trying to trade Ajayi for him right now....

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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby Valhalla » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:32 am

The Showstopper wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:27 pm I’m trying to trade Ajayi for him right now....
That’s one that could as easily be accepted as laughed at. Both players have a wide spectrum of firm believers and firm doubters.
Personally, I’d rather have Gordon.

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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby gogobradyarm » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:16 am

Decided to get away from Gordon recently. Traded 2.02 and Gordon away for 1.06. The guy is arguably the best WR in the NFL, but he is also the riskiest PLAYER period. I will root for him always, but I think he has a peanut for a brain and cannot trust him, so i've flipped him with fear that he may not make it through the offseason.
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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby Balzac » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:27 am

Phaded wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:20 am Just because you do not agree with me does not make my points invalid. I have seen no argument or evidence that he is not one dimensional either.
Just because you say something doesn't magically make it true. You made the claim, now back it up. You've been hating on Gordon for as long as I've been around. He is finally playing football again and your brain is panicking that he might have some success in the nfl again after all those thousands of posts about how he was rubbish.

Knock him for his drug problem, fair game. Knock him for his talent in the shallowest of manors, kind of petty.
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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby thebeast » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:05 am

Oh man, didn't we learn anything... We've been here before.

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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby hockeyBjj » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:39 pm

Time to buy was when the rumors of meeting with the league were

By now, whoever had been holding him for three freaking years is going to keep holding unless he gets the ceiling price of his 2014? year which no way I'd want Gordon for that

Gordon would be nice to have as an upside WR4 or 5. I wouldn't trust going into the season with him in my starting lineup each week really
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Re: Josh Gordon: Buy now?

Postby kris_kapsner » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:58 pm

gogobradyarm wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:16 am Decided to get away from Gordon recently. Traded 2.02 and Gordon away for 1.06. The guy is arguably the best WR in the NFL, but he is also the riskiest PLAYER period. I will root for him always, but I think he has a peanut for a brain and cannot trust him, so i've flipped him with fear that he may not make it through the offseason.
That's nearly what I traded for him. I traded the 1.7 for Gordon and 2.14.
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Josh Gordon 2018

Postby kris_kapsner » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:30 am

Don’t panic! He wasn’t busted for drugs again. He’s staying on track so far.

But, less than 2 weeks after the head coach says they will build their offense around Gordon, they trade for Landry. The two WR’s couldn’t be more different as far as skill sets. So they should compliment each other well.

However, Tyrod Taylor is far from elite at QB. And that move seems to indicate that making a run at another free agent QB like Cousins, Keenum or someone isn’t likely. Therefore a rookie QB and Taylor are likely it.

I was excited about Gordon this year, thinking 70-85 catches for over 1,000 yards and 8-10 TD’s would be realistic.

What do you gents think of Gordon’s fantasy potential this year now that Landry is in town and the QB situation will be better than last year, but far from elite?
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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby Bot101 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:43 am

I like the moves for Gordon.

1 Landry and Gordon operate in different parts of the field. Their skill sets are not overlapping, but more complimenting.

2 As crazy as it sounds, Taylor might be the best QB Gordon has ever had throwing to him. And someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Taylor like throwing deep over checking down?

All in all, Gordon arrow up. Njoku arrow down. Coleman arrow way down.

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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby StableOfRBs » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:59 am

Taylor prefers to throw to guys who are already open, kind of like Dak. It's not that he can't throw short it's just that when Watkins was on the team he was pretty much the only guy open and also happened to be downfield, not to mention Tyrod has a fantastic deep ball. I think he'll be about the same for Landry between the 20s as Tannehill was since he gets open quickly with others to stretch the field for him but he'll be better for Njoku/Gordon inside the red zone since they're the bigger box out type of guys who can come down with it. Definitely wouldn't surprise me if Gordon had like one or two catches of 20+ yards a game but I don't think any wide receiver on that team is headed for a high target share. If anything I think this helps Njoku the most since we already know Tyrod likes his TEs because of the mismatch they create and while raw Njoku can be a big mismatch with his athleticism. Granted I don't think he'll be like a top 3 TE or whatever but Jackson and Haley both have had success using TEs all over the field in the past, eifert as a great red zone threat and miller as a move-the-sticks safety blanket almost every down. I could see then marrying the two with Njoku getting moved around a lot.
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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby _yeti » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:09 am

Landry acquisition takes a ton of heat off Gordon. If they take Barkley they are cutting a defense's legs out from under them. The defense can't sell out to taking away the deep ball because of Barkley and the damage Landry will do underneath. Gordon gets more opportunities for big plays and 1 on 1 coverage.

I have always been and always be an opponent of the idea that more weapons and a projected decreased target share equals decreased production. Frankly, healthy offenses benefit EVERYONE. Think Peyton, DT, Sanders, and CJ in Denver. Think current Steelers, think a few years ago Packers when they were clicking.

Yes, those are elite QBs. BUT when players went down with injury people thought the others would benefit from more targets but in reality the whole offense produced less.

Tyrod. Barkley, Njoku, Landry, Coleman, and Gordon cover the whole field. It's not about target share. Teams that put up one and two score games will never produce the stats of teams that can put up 30-40 point scores. It's not about target share. When the whole offense can produce a defense can't isolate and take away Gordon.
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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby _yeti » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 am

Last point to add to the previous, more to Stable's points, let's not act like Gordon is Malcom Floyd in SD or something. He's not a one-note deep threat, he is a more complete WR. Easily see him regularly putting up 6-10 catch 80-100 yard plus games with one or two scores with other weapons around him. No reason he can't be on par with players like Evans in that regard.
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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby Phaded » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:03 am

He is still nothing more than a volatile WR3.

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Re: Josh Gordon 2018

Postby Weeman » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:26 am

Tyrod may be the bridge to allowing a rookie QB to settle in, he’s NOT the longterm answer. Barkley or even an early 2nd rd RB changes the coverage on Gordon. I’d expect target share goes down & TDs up, either way the offenses trajectory is trending up with their draft capital & cap situation.


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