Ezekiel Elliott may not be worth the price

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Zeke Elliott

Postby TmoGuru » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:36 pm

Where will Zeke fit into the top 30 rbs in startup league drafts?

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HawkeyeState
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby HawkeyeState » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:42 pm

I think you could make an easy argument for top 10RBs for Zeke.
He went RB8 in my recent 10 team startup (start 2-3RBs)
I would probably rank the dynasty RBs like this:
Gurley
Bell
David Johnson
I would have a hard time putting anybody else ahead of Zeke other than those 3 RBs
Team 1
10 TM .5 PPR, 6 pt all TDs 1/2/3/1/2Flex
Newton, Rivers
LF, Chubb, Michel, Kerryon, Hyde, AJones, Royce F, Crowell
Adams, Cooper, Alshon, Watkins, ARob, Fuller, Doctson, Funchess, Gallup, Pettis, Valdez-Scant
Gronk, HHenry, Engram
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 2
10 TM 1/2/3/1/1Flex 6pt all TDs .25 PPR RB, .5 PPR WR, 1 PPR TE
Wilson, Big Ben
Bell, JConner, MMack, Shady, CThompson, D'Onta Foreman, C Edmonds, B Scarborough
Julio, Nuk, Fuller, Cooks, ARob, Watkins, Cooper, SShepard, CDavis, DJ Chark
Kelce, Olsen, Andrews
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 3
10 team, 0.5 PPR RBs WRs, 1 PPR TEs, Devy Superflex League
Carr, Goff, Falk
Barkley, Dalvin, Mixon, Michel, Ballage, MDavis, Dixon, Akers*
Hopkins, JuJu, Watkins, Fuller, Agholor, Moncrief, EQSB, Valdez-Scant, CRogers
Eifert, Ebron, JJames, JCook
1.02, 2.02, 2.06, 3.04

Played against David Johnson in HS, he was a stud back then too

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby TmoGuru » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:59 pm

What about Rawls now that Lynch has retired?

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Phaded » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:17 pm

As it stands right now - I would have him in my top 5. At least in PPR.

As crazy as it may seem but aside from Bell & Gurley, RB is a big question mark if you ask me.

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HawkeyeState
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby HawkeyeState » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:27 pm

TmoGuru wrote:What about Rawls now that Lynch has retired?
Rawls hasn't done enough for me to think he's more than just a guy who did well in a decent NFL offense and he took advantage of his opportunities.
I'm not sure if he's a plus athlete or talent enough that a decent free agent or draft pick at RB couldn't unseat him or at least make it a RBBC.
And actually, if they keep CMike in town, after the resurgence he kind of hand in the last couple regular season weeks and early playoffs, I'm not so sure he can't carve out a role and hurt the # of weekly touches Rawls gets.
Is it possible Rawls just became the next Lynch? Yeah it's possible. But there are things stacked against him IMO
Team 1
10 TM .5 PPR, 6 pt all TDs 1/2/3/1/2Flex
Newton, Rivers
LF, Chubb, Michel, Kerryon, Hyde, AJones, Royce F, Crowell
Adams, Cooper, Alshon, Watkins, ARob, Fuller, Doctson, Funchess, Gallup, Pettis, Valdez-Scant
Gronk, HHenry, Engram
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 2
10 TM 1/2/3/1/1Flex 6pt all TDs .25 PPR RB, .5 PPR WR, 1 PPR TE
Wilson, Big Ben
Bell, JConner, MMack, Shady, CThompson, D'Onta Foreman, C Edmonds, B Scarborough
Julio, Nuk, Fuller, Cooks, ARob, Watkins, Cooper, SShepard, CDavis, DJ Chark
Kelce, Olsen, Andrews
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 3
10 team, 0.5 PPR RBs WRs, 1 PPR TEs, Devy Superflex League
Carr, Goff, Falk
Barkley, Dalvin, Mixon, Michel, Ballage, MDavis, Dixon, Akers*
Hopkins, JuJu, Watkins, Fuller, Agholor, Moncrief, EQSB, Valdez-Scant, CRogers
Eifert, Ebron, JJames, JCook
1.02, 2.02, 2.06, 3.04

Played against David Johnson in HS, he was a stud back then too

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby DynoScout » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:55 pm

Zeke is projecting to be a top 6 dynasty RB for me right out of the gate. I don't even feel like that's all that aggressive.

It almost says as much about the state of the position as Elliott himself.

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Bad News Barrett » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:32 pm

Top 30? He's In the top 15 and hasn't been drafted. Henry is in the top 20 himself as well
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Plank » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:25 pm

Man we need some dam RB's in the League.
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Westy22 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:00 pm

His age and the unknown will put him high, probably top 10 at his position in start ups. This is folly imo until we see his landing spot.

Elliot is not a generational talent, but just lacks weaknesses. A guy like that will require a good landing spot.

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Westy22 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:36 pm

beinginitself wrote:
Westy22 wrote:His age and the unknown will put him high, probably top 10 at his position in start ups. This is folly imo until we see his landing spot.

Elliot is not a generational talent, but just lacks weaknesses. A guy like that will require a good landing spot.
I am not entirely sure why, but this comment made me think of Forte. Forte was no generational talent, he was very much like you state - lacked weaknesses. The bears were not a "good landing spot" by any stretch at that time. Poor o-line. No passing offense really ("where receivers go to die").

Then, he blew up that first start against Indy if my memory serves.

I am not trying to make a talent comparison between Forte and Elliot, but they both were viewed as lacking weaknesses. Forte came out alright despite what appeared to be a lackluster landing spot at that time.
I hear your point, but Melvin Gordon was a guy who I felt talent wise was better than Zeke and he fell into a terrible situation and struggled. We can pick out examples for both...despite what we all like to believe fantasy is difficult to predict/project.

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby BlueDemons33 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:53 pm

HawkeyeState wrote:
TmoGuru wrote:What about Rawls now that Lynch has retired?
Rawls hasn't done enough for me to think he's more than just a guy who did well in a decent NFL offense and he took advantage of his opportunities.
I'm not sure if he's a plus athlete or talent enough that a decent free agent or draft pick at RB couldn't unseat him or at least make it a RBBC.
And actually, if they keep CMike in town, after the resurgence he kind of hand in the last couple regular season weeks and early playoffs, I'm not so sure he can't carve out a role and hurt the # of weekly touches Rawls gets.
Is it possible Rawls just became the next Lynch? Yeah it's possible. But there are things stacked against him IMO
If you put Da. Johnson in your top 5 you cannot say Rawls hasn't done enough (and I'm not even a Rawls fan).

If anything, Rawls produced BETTER than Johnson. Of course, the risk is no draft capital invested, coming off that injury, etc. Not I don't buy the "he hasn't done enough" argument. However I do think we need to pump the brakes on Rawls until after the draft.

Same with Da. Johnson except he has draft capital invested in him, but his value is out of control.

Zeke, depending on landing spot, would be in my top 10.

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby clarion contrarion » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:51 am

wow elliott is worth more than cj anderson or jeremy hill were at this time last year , the only reason to have him in the top5 or even 10 at this point is pure optimistic speculation . What if he goes to a team with a terrible OLINE ... giants or indy in indy I do not think frank gore will just go away ( yet ) , he could get melvined from the start . None of the ballyhooed big 10 rbs translated well last season and there is just a chance than EE will not either . I get that the rb position is in flux but in a startup I would have a hard time picking him where many people are advocating taking him. I would rather go with another WR , in a rookie draft I can see taking him at 1:1 or 1:2 depending on team construction but in a startup the price is too rich to take him as the rb 5 or at that area.

gurley bell peterson DJ rawls miller ( if he gets out of miami) martin easily ... then mccoy (assuming he isn't in jail)
anderson freeman ingram forte (especially in baltimore) yeldon & probably lacy especially if he goes on the atkins diet .
That is a bunch of guys I take at the relative price before grabbing EE in the top 5.
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:54 pm

Westy22 wrote:
Elliot is not a generational talent, but just lacks weaknesses.
I just got done watching his tape and this is exactly what he is. There's a lot to like, not a lot not to like. Does everything well... the only thing he lacks is he's not quite as dynamic as Gurley or David Johnson. Not quite as fluid through his cuts as those two. He has great start/stop agility but doesn't quite have the fluid change of direction agility at speed. Nothing in his arsenal comes close to that amazing jump cut Gurley does in which he keeps/gains speed. But aside from that he shows really well on tape. Good burst, good speed (i'm guessing around a 4.50), good vision, good power, no-nonsense runner.... really solid back. Not saying the two are alike but he kept reminding me of Yeldon for some reason albeit a much better version.

I see people talking about Melvin Gordon and situation but Melvin Gordon showed several weaknesses in his college tape that transferred over with him to the NFL. Let's not pretend that all his problems are situational.

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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby chopping mall » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:40 pm

BlueDemons33 wrote:
HawkeyeState wrote:
TmoGuru wrote:What about Rawls now that Lynch has retired?
Rawls hasn't done enough for me to think he's more than just a guy who did well in a decent NFL offense and he took advantage of his opportunities.
I'm not sure if he's a plus athlete or talent enough that a decent free agent or draft pick at RB couldn't unseat him or at least make it a RBBC.
And actually, if they keep CMike in town, after the resurgence he kind of hand in the last couple regular season weeks and early playoffs, I'm not so sure he can't carve out a role and hurt the # of weekly touches Rawls gets.
Is it possible Rawls just became the next Lynch? Yeah it's possible. But there are things stacked against him IMO
If you put Da. Johnson in your top 5 you cannot say Rawls hasn't done enough (and I'm not even a Rawls fan).

If anything, Rawls produced BETTER than Johnson. Of course, the risk is no draft capital invested, coming off that injury, etc. Not I don't buy the "he hasn't done enough" argument. However I do think we need to pump the brakes on Rawls until after the draft.

Same with Da. Johnson except he has draft capital invested in him, but his value is out of control.

Zeke, depending on landing spot, would be in my top 10.

I agree with alot of this, DJ is already being ranked as a top 3 RB? Rawls biggest knock until now was that Lynch could come back next season. We now know he's retired and just about everything I am seeing indicates we should treat Rawls as the presumptive starter.

The Seahawks have many issues before people say they'll draft another RB to replace Rawls. Don't they have a starting WR who was also undrafted? I see no one saying he has no value because the Seahawks might draft another WR since they have no draft capital invested in him. I could see the argument that people should just wait until after the draft to confirm they don't draft another RB.

But if I had Rawls I'd hold and if I didn't have him, well his price is already as a Top 7 RB so no point buying at this point. But I don't think this whole draft capital thing is some huge knock, the Seahawks have shown they have no problems utilizing undrafted players.

AND I just want to add, lets not forget that Pete Carrol did give interviews saying Rawls was on their radar but since they knew they could get him as a UDFA they didn't feel the need to draft him. But they did grab him as a UDFA and then proceeded to cut those who were on the roster ahead of him. I am saying Rawls will be the starter next year, and I have him ranked as my RB5 2 spots behind DJ.

IF the Hawks get another RB, and depending who they aquire and when (aged Vet vs 1st rookie) then I'll re-evaluate my ranking, but for now I am treating Rawls as the starter and valuing him likewise. To value a 22 year old projected starter any other way would be foolish in my opinion.
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Re: Zeke Elliott

Postby Bo Jackson » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:09 pm

I think O line will play a huge part in his starting success. It'll be interesting to see who takes him first, or if someone trades up for him...
McFadden didn't mind the O line change!
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