Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby iCantStop » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:46 am

^Excellent posts by Phaded and Yeti.
The old-school tactics are rigid, but Mariota says players are responding. Through OTAs, Mularkey displayed a chart each week listing the most-penalized players, hoping to fix bad habits through peer-humiliation.
I can't get over this. This is the opposite of how a leader is supposed to act, in my humble opinion. Why would men want to go to battle for this guy when he's pulling their trousers down in front of their peers? The articles Yeti posted show an extreme narcissistic tendency from Mularkey - a man that's on a power trip and one that's willing to humiliate his subordinates in order to get his point across. I seriously feel bad for the Titans players.

I'm glad DGB got the heck out of Dodge.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby ccj » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:44 am

You guys can write novels of faulty logic all you want, this is not a good sign.

Mediocre in college and then kicked off team. Worst catch percentage on his team last year, kicked off team. Sounds like a brilliant prospect.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Never Veto1 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:47 am

iCantStop wrote:^Excellent posts by Phaded and Yeti.
The old-school tactics are rigid, but Mariota says players are responding. Through OTAs, Mularkey displayed a chart each week listing the most-penalized players, hoping to fix bad habits through peer-humiliation.
I can't get over this. This is the opposite of how a leader is supposed to act, in my humble opinion. Why would men want to go to battle for this guy when he's pulling their trousers down in front of their peers? The articles Yeti posted show an extreme narcissistic tendency from Mularkey - a man that's on a power trip and one that's willing to humiliate his subordinates in order to get his point across. I seriously feel bad for the Titans players.

I'm glad DGB got the heck out of Dodge.
Maybe the players should just do their jobs correctly.
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby _yeti » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:54 am

Mularkey seems like a guy stuck in the wrong era, who gets people to buy into his tough guy old school talk but then is shown to be outdated when the chips are down. There is a reason the entire NFL is evolving away from his philosophy, namely that with the athletes that are in the NFL and the rules enabling the passing game, it is much less effective to try to just be a team that pounds the run. Defenses stack the box on you and your play action stuff with a motley crew of WRs isnt enough to keep them honest. You need sn elite line a good defense and everyone to BUY IN to the coach's philosophy. They will win some games, flirt with .500 and make Demarco Murray relevant again.

I can see why Mularkey is effective as a position coach, busting the TEs and Olines chops to make them tough as nails and win in the run game. That just isn't where the NFL is at at the head coach level. A head coach is really like a CEO. There is a massive amount of moving parts and you need to oversee it all and ensure it runs smoothly and puts out a winning product. To be blunt, he is not good at this.

As for the disciplinarian portion, I feel like there is a certain fetishism in the media and with fans reading about the "disciplining" of NFL athletes. I'm gonna be honest, I feel like there is definitely a racial component to how interested fans are in it and how much they obsess over it. You do not see it in sports where the athletes are not predominantly African-American. That is the truth. Also, a proven winning coach was ran out of town partially for treating his professional players like children. That coach was Jim Harbaugh in San Fran.

Now I cannot say with certainty that DGB is not a world class idiot who doesnt commit himself enough, because I dont have enough information. But I think Phaded has done a great job with the information we DO have of giving a rundown on DGB. I CAN say with certainty though that Mularkey is an idiot living in the wrong era and he will produce some mediocre results which will mainly benefit the RBs and will not make the Titans a relevant playoff team. Sure they might MAKE the playoffs finally in this year or the next, but that is more due to the parity forced by the NFL and the high picks in the draft from these past horrible seasons.
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:58 am

ccj wrote:You guys can write novels of faulty logic all you want, this is not a good sign.

Mediocre in college and then kicked off team. Worst catch percentage on his team last year, kicked off team. Sounds like a brilliant prospect.
Those mean old coaches. Everyone is out to get DGB and it's not fair. So what if he can't learn a playbook or run routes as he's told. Cut him some slack.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby _yeti » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:06 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
ccj wrote:You guys can write novels of faulty logic all you want, this is not a good sign.

Mediocre in college and then kicked off team. Worst catch percentage on his team last year, kicked off team. Sounds like a brilliant prospect.
Those mean old coaches. Everyone is out to get DGB and it's not fair. So what if he can't learn a playbook or run routes as he's told. Cut him some slack.
Sorry for using critical thinking. I will try to stick to single sentences in the future that sum up the topic and provide no additional analysis or value.
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12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby yooperbacker » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:07 am

He is exactly the type of coach a franchise brings in to get to .500. The Titans have been in disrepair since Jeff Fisher left (another steady eddy no frills .500 coach). The Lions made a similar move with Caldwell. Not a great offensive or defensive mind, but is steady as a rock and knows how to put a team together and moving in the right direction. Mularkey continually stated the move was to put the best team on the field he can. I believe this statement. Mariota doesn't have the tools to use DGB. Sharpe fits the scheme better and the "exotic smash mouth" needs a dominant oline more than a field stretching wr. Is it so far-fetched to believe a team sold low on a talented young skill guy they will never use infavor of a piece they may actually need?
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby chopping mall » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:10 am

Phaded wrote: ...if they really believe he was worth anything they would have paid more? Why would you pay for more than the team selling him is asking for? Think fantasy football - if you inquire about a player and that owners asks for a 2nd, will you counter with "I will actually give you a 1st." That makes absolutely no sense at all. The Eagles reached out to the Titans. The Titans were not shopping him around and stacking up the best offers. If you read about it - the Eagles GM discusses how him and the Titans GM have a good relationship and they had an open discussion about what each team wants.

This is a high upside no-risk flier for the Eagles. The Eagles acknowledge that they are in a rebuild and that DGB is going to take time to develop, which is why the Eagles are the perfect spot for him. Here is the GM acknowledging that they understand he needs development but they are willing to do that:

Wait where did you read this was all they asked for? So you are taking this part in bold to mean that the Titans simply said we'll take the lowest possible price as our initial offer and the Eagles just said Sure!

You think the Titans said we just need a back up linesman? they wouldn't even start with well we need help on our line and see what's the best offer the Eagles would give? no they simply said we would like Dennis Kelly?
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Phaded » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:18 am

yooperbacker wrote:Sharpe fits the scheme better and the "exotic smash mouth" needs a dominant oline more than a field stretching wr. Is it so far-fetched to believe a team sold low on a talented young skill guy they will never use infavor of a piece they may actually need?
And this comes back to what I was saying - the Titans and DGB are just a bad fit for each other. At the end of the day - I think that is the number one thing. People can blame DGB. People can blame the Titans. However, from where I am sitting (and with what limited information is available to the public, which is all we can go on) - it just seems like the two were not a match.

We are talking about a team who has a running quarterback, just traded for DeMarco Murray and THEN drafted Derrick Henry. It is pretty obvious that they are going to be heavily emphasizing the run game. Now, Mularkey is probably going to find out the hard way that you cannot win with just a run game.

Of all teams that the Titans could trade with - is it really all that surprising that it was the Eagles? I mean - they already processed a trade for the aforementioned DeMarco Murray. The GM is on record that he has a good relationship with the Titans GM. This is probably a case of two teams trying to help each other out with what can help their team.

Even if DGB is a raw flier - the Eagles need help desperately at WR. Jordan Matthews is the only guy there really at this point and there are injury concerns with him. Agholor, Randle, Givens & Huff have all reportedly disappointed. So they had to do something. The Eagles have already acknowledged that they are rebuilding and DGB is a guy who needs developing - but between DGB and the 4 I just mentioned; it is pretty easy to say DGB has the most "upside". He just needs to be developed. Like I said early - it's a low risk high reward move for the Eagles.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby TheChicken » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:19 am

The great thing about these types of threads is that you'll never change the mind of the poster you're debating with, but the will to justify your position creates great counterpoints for those whose position on the matter is undecided and also unearths some great extra info for other players (like knowing to adjust Titan player values based on errors & consistency rather than big plays).

Re DGB I had him down as effectively red shirting 2015 so was surprised at his achievements. This move means another 'rookie' type season on a team I have too much already invested in (various shares of Agholor, JMatt and Ertz). So I'll be an interested spectator from the sidelines.


*Also cannot wait for Dennis Kelly to have a pro bowl season ..... Murlarky can definitely scout olineman better than I.
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:20 am

a_yeti wrote:
Cameron Giles wrote:
ccj wrote:You guys can write novels of faulty logic all you want, this is not a good sign.

Mediocre in college and then kicked off team. Worst catch percentage on his team last year, kicked off team. Sounds like a brilliant prospect.
Those mean old coaches. Everyone is out to get DGB and it's not fair. So what if he can't learn a playbook or run routes as he's told. Cut him some slack.
Sorry for using critical thinking. I will try to stick to single sentences in the future that sum up the topic and provide no additional analysis or value.
I don't see how it's critical to largely blame surrounding factors on a player not doing the right thing when his career is largely built on not doing the right thing.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:24 am

yooperbacker wrote:He is exactly the type of coach a franchise brings in to get to .500. The Titans have been in disrepair since Jeff Fisher left (another steady eddy no frills .500 coach). The Lions made a similar move with Caldwell. Not a great offensive or defensive mind, but is steady as a rock and knows how to put a team together and moving in the right direction. Mularkey continually stated the move was to put the best team on the field he can. I believe this statement. Mariota doesn't have the tools to use DGB. Sharpe fits the scheme better and the "exotic smash mouth" needs a dominant oline more than a field stretching wr. Is it so far-fetched to believe a team sold low on a talented young skill guy they will never use infavor of a piece they may actually need?
It is far-fetched.

Let's say DGB was performing well in camp and getting rave reviews from the coaches. However, he still doesn't "fit the system." Do you still think a team is going to trade him for a backup offensive tackle on a one year deal? That's worse value than a 7th round draft pick.

Read in between the lines. He was awful and they threw him out.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby Phaded » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:25 am

Sirettx wrote:Wait where did you read this was all they asked for? So you are taking this part in bold to mean that the Titans simply said we'll take the lowest possible price as our initial offer and the Eagles just said Sure!

You think the Titans said we just need a back up linesman? they wouldn't even start with well we need help on our line and see what's the best offer the Eagles would give? no they simply said we would like Dennis Kelly?
Have you actually done any reading about what both GMs have said in regards to this trade or are you just throwing out assumptions? There seems to be a lot of assumptions going on around here by people without actually paying attention to what is going on.

It is not far fetched that the Titans wanted to improve their offensive line. They want to focus on running the ball yet they have a pretty poor offensive line and there are a lot of questions marks. Mularkey really likes Dennis Kelly. Here is what he said about him:
"I felt good about him when we discussed making this (trade)," Mularkey said. "I watched tape of him. I felt good about watching him play, his style. I thought he would fit with what we do."
They feel that Dennis Kelly can help them immediately with what they are going to do - it's not like they picked up Kelly and are going to have him ride the bench. He will be used immediately.

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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby chopping mall » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:32 am

Phaded wrote:
Sirettx wrote:Wait where did you read this was all they asked for? So you are taking this part in bold to mean that the Titans simply said we'll take the lowest possible price as our initial offer and the Eagles just said Sure!

You think the Titans said we just need a back up linesman? they wouldn't even start with well we need help on our line and see what's the best offer the Eagles would give? no they simply said we would like Dennis Kelly?
Have you actually done any reading about what both GMs have said in regards to this trade or are you just throwing out assumptions? There seems to be a lot of assumptions going on around here by people without actually paying attention to what is going on.

It is not far fetched that the Titans wanted to improve their offensive line. They want to focus on running the ball yet they have a pretty poor offensive line and there are a lot of questions marks. Mularkey really likes Dennis Kelly. Here is what he said about him:
"I felt good about him when we discussed making this (trade)," Mularkey said. "I watched tape of him. I felt good about watching him play, his style. I thought he would fit with what we do."
They feel that Dennis Kelly can help them immediately with what they are going to do - it's not like they picked up Kelly and are going to have him ride the bench. He will be used immediately.
Right but once again asking where did you read that this was their target going in?

If I want help on my line and I want my 1st choice and they say no, I want my 2nd choice and they say no but hey my third choice will work, sure I'm still going to be happy but YOU are the one claiming that they got exactly what they want.

And you are the one countering anyone claims that they couldn't get more with this is exactly what they were targeting. Quoting Mularkey with he is happy with what he got doesn't mean they didn't ask for more. And since you seem to be implying that you are well read on this I am asking you for that source that you are basing that Dennis Kelly is exactly what they targeted otherwise are you not just while on the one hand also speculating but then on the other hand attempting to call people out as only speculating?

You said if someone asks for a 2nd you're not going to counter with a 1st, how do you know they started with a 2nd? because that's what they got, you seem to be saying it's completely not possibly that they in fact asked for a 1st and the Eagles were like come on man, we'll give you a 2nd. Did Mularkey provide that quote before or after the trade? Would not expect two teams that just traded for players to talk up the players they traded for?

I mean I get that people want to still believe in DGB and that's fine, but when someone doesn't care either way, then I mean yeah faulty logic either way is pretty dang noticeable. When EVERYONE is speculating, how can anyone be calling anyone out for speculating (especially when they themselves will then proceed to speculate in the same post! come on now!)
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Re: Dorial Green-Beckham - traded to the Eagles!!

Postby _yeti » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:37 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
a_yeti wrote:
Cameron Giles wrote: (CCJ):
"You guys can write novels of faulty logic all you want, this is not a good sign.

Mediocre in college and then kicked off team. Worst catch percentage on his team last year, kicked off team. Sounds like a brilliant prospect
."

(Cameron Giles): Those mean old coaches. Everyone is out to get DGB and it's not fair. So what if he can't learn a playbook or run routes as he's told. Cut him some slack.
Sorry for using critical thinking. I will try to stick to single sentences in the future that sum up the topic and provide no additional analysis or value.
I don't see how it's critical to largely blame surrounding factors on a player not doing the right thing when his career is largely built on not doing the right thing.
Is his career built on not doing the right thing? I think you mean his career has been hampered by him not doing the right thing. Make no mistake, he is where he is precisely because of what he has done on the field. Would he be better off if he had been better off the field? Absolutely. Many said with no off field issues and his head on straight he would have been a top 10 draft pick.
Last edited by _yeti on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant


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