Is Moncrief a body catcher, and does it matter?

[knut45]

Watching some moncrief film and noticed he seems to trap the ball alot when he catches. He makes some spectacular hand catches but in general he seems to trap the ball. Looking back at some scouting reports this seemed to be a issue in college too.

My question is does this matter? Will it limit his upside? And is it something he's likely to unlearn over time?

[_yeti]

1) Yes it is a cause for concern. I am lower on him than the general consensus around here, as is the NFL, as has been his career to this point.

2) For the most part, how an NFL receiver catches or doesn't catch the football isn't really something they "learn or unlearn." Everyone wishes they had ball skills and hands like OBJ, either you got it or you don't. In the split-second the ball gets on him his mind thinks that's the most prudent way to catch it. Cannot imagine how many practice reps and ball machines have been shot at him to this point in his career (many thousands) and yet that's how he catches it. Just bc you are in the NFL, doesnt necessarily mean you hav great hands... look at Ted Ginn

[ccj]

Ask Stephen Hill.

[dynastyninja]

Moncrief is an average NFL receiver. He's in a good situation so he carries value, but he's not worth a high price (not sure what his current price is).

[jaykay22]

Speaking as a Moncrief owner who likes himself some Moncrief. I think that is a fair concern to have, and I agree with a_yeti, it isn't something he's gonna unlearn, even if he's so young and raw at just 22 years old still. Could it limit his upside to an extent? Sure, but the important thing here is having realistic expectations/predictions over the type of fantasy WR Moncrief will become. His career catch ratio is actually pretty decent at 62.3% for his career so far, which makes me feel pretty good about things despite his body catching woes. I don't see him becoming a top 12 PPR WR. I DO see him as a PPR 18-24 guy going forward pretty consistently, though. And when you add in the factors of how young he is, his prototypical size, his impressive speed, and of course the stud QB in Luck, you get the current Moncrief value. Some guys think that's too much to pay, while I personally think it's fair. I'd take Moncrief over Treadwell, for example, but maybe that's just me.

Not sure what Stephen Hill has to do with him, btw. Yeah, Stephen Hill was a body catcher, but does Stephen Hill even count as a WR in hindsight?

[ccj]

Not sure what Stephen Hill has to do with him, btw. Yeah, Stephen Hill was a body catcher, but does Stephen Hill even count as a WR in hindsight?

It's a bad habit I have of referencing threads from 3 years ago. There was a thread that went like 10 pages arguing whether or not Hill was a body catcher and if it mattered.

It's like the old matt Stafford thread, sometimes old conversations just stick in my head.

[Litesout13]

1) Yes it is a cause for concern. I am lower on him than the general consensus around here, as is the NFL, as has been his career to this point.

2) For the most part, how an NFL receiver catches or doesn't catch the football isn't really something they "learn or unlearn." Everyone wishes they had ball skills and hands like OBJ, either you got it or you don't. In the split-second the ball gets on him his mind thinks that's the most prudent way to catch it. Cannot imagine how many practice reps and ball machines have been shot at him to this point in his career (many thousands) and yet that's how he catches it. Just bc you are in the NFL, doesnt necessarily mean you hav great hands... look at Ted Ginn

Repetition can help with body catching issues. Not saying it would get 100% fixed, but a lot of guys are not truly taught the game and just play it how they think or always have. Putting in reps practicing catching with your hands can help give yourself the muscle memory to just do it naturally, just like any other thing athletes work on in the offseason.

[evorzan]

Not sure what Stephen Hill has to do with him, btw. Yeah, Stephen Hill was a body catcher, but does Stephen Hill even count as a WR in hindsight?

It's a bad habit I have of referencing threads from 3 years ago. There was a thread that went like 10 pages arguing whether or not Hill was a body catcher and if it mattered.

It's like the old matt Stafford thread, sometimes old conversations just stick in my head.

Time to take some Nyquil and prognosticate Brian Quick fortunes?

[kadun2]

Yes. No.

He's shown what he can do. Luck is healthy this year. He's still young

[BelichekYourSelf]

I'm all aboard the Moncrief bandwagon. I'm very high on him. As long as he catches the ball I really don't care how he does it. Now obviously it's better to catch it with your hands and Moncrief has shown the ability to do that. The upside is there.

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/903 ... on-in-2016

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/app ... moncrief15

[Hottoddies]

The ability to hand catch is definitely a trait I look for in a WR prospect and I do recall being concerned about that when I reviewed Moncrief in college. However, I also remembered that OBJ had a tendency to body catch a lot in college as well. But clearly that was probably due to just being lazy. I have no with problem a guy securing a pass with his body when he's wide open but in a contested situation waiting for the ball to come into your body allows a defender an opportunity to make a play on the ball. The good news for Moncrief is that he is a great route runner and has the capacity to create separation.

And as a side note I also recall that while I was reviewing Moncrief's college tape and being a bit disappointed in his performance that there was this other guy that looked pretty damn good. I think his name was Treadwell. He might just be a guy to keep your eye on.

[ninotoreS]

Folks, Moncrief's body-catching habit nearly disappeared on his 2015 tape. Outdated narrative.

Understand something. A guy like Will Fuller body-catches because he has tiny hands and poor ball-skills, effectively forcing him to be an underhanded catcher. A guy like Moncrief body-caught at Ole Miss because he just didn't get coached up sufficiently. When the ball came to him away from his body, he didn't have any trouble snatching it out of frame with his hands, and his actual drop-rate was very low. He just also had a bad habit of hopping off the ground to body-catch passes that came at him at about head-level. It was just a silly, totally unncessary habit, so it was always a very correctable flaw.

Now that having been said, Moncrief's hand-strength isn't elite, meaning he doesn't project to be an outrageously dominant 'go up and get it guy' in contested situations in the Jeffery or Nuk mold. But that's certainly not a hard-requisite for productive fantasy receivers, and is a different issue from body-catching, obviously.

I am lower on him than the general consensus around here, as is the NFL, as has been his career to this point.

Dude, Moncrief would have been an early Day 2 pick if he had come out in a less WR talent stacked year. Like, say, this year's. Actually, he might have been a late 1st rounder in this year's class.

Also, his rookie and sophomore years were not disappointments. He flashed several big plays his rookie year, and then significantly improved his route tree and savvy in year two, turning into a reliable intermediate-level target despite coming out of Ole Miss billed as strictly a vertical threat. His year two growth into a more every-level capable receiver was a very pleasant surprise. Some evidence for you: http://subscribers.footballguys.com/app ... moncrief15. I would just say to watch more tape, but it's apparent most people on these forums in this thread so far aren't in the habit of doing that to check their opinions.

And as a side note I also recall that while I was reviewing Moncrief's college tape and being a bit disappointed in his performance that there was this other guy that looked pretty damn good. I think his name was Treadwell. He might just be a guy to keep your eye on.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... elog/2013/
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... elog/2013/

[_yeti]

Folks, Moncrief's body-catching habit nearly disappeared on his 2015 tape. Outdated narrative.

Understand something. A guy like Will Fuller body-catches because he has tiny hands and poor ball-skills, effectively forcing him to be an underhanded catcher. A guy like Moncrief body-caught at Ole Miss because he just didn't get coached up sufficiently. When the ball came to him away from his body, he didn't have any trouble snatching it out of frame with his hands, and his actual drop-rate was very low. He just also had a bad habit of hopping off the ground to body-catch passes that came at him at about head-level. It was just a silly, totally unncessary habit, so it was always a very correctable flaw.

Now that having been said, Moncrief's hand-strength isn't elite, meaning he doesn't project to be an outrageously dominant 'go up and get it guy' in contested situations in the Jeffery or Nuk mold. But that's certainly not a hard-requisite for productive fantasy receivers, and is a different issue from body-catching, obviously.

I am lower on him than the general consensus around here, as is the NFL, as has been his career to this point.

Dude, Moncrief would have been an early Day 2 pick if he had come out in a less WR talent stacked year. Like, say, this year's. Actually, he might have been a late 1st rounder in this year's class.

Also, his rookie and sophomore years were not disappointments. He flashed several big plays his rookie year, and then significantly improved his route tree and savvy in year two, turning into a reliable intermediate-level target despite coming out of Ole Miss billed as strictly a vertical threat. His year two growth into a more every-level capable receiver was a very pleasant surprise. Some evidence for you: http://subscribers.footballguys.com/app ... moncrief15. I would just say to watch more tape, but it's apparent most people on these forums in this thread so far aren't in the habit of doing that to check their opinions.

And as a side note I also recall that while I was reviewing Moncrief's college tape and being a bit disappointed in his performance that there was this other guy that looked pretty damn good. I think his name was Treadwell. He might just be a guy to keep your eye on.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... elog/2013/
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... elog/2013/

We disagree on every post on every player somehow

[HereForTheComments]

No idea, but his catch percentage is pretty good and he only dropped 2 passes last year out of 105 targets.... I think that's a good stat to look at when determining if he is going to have any future problems with "bad habits". Not end all be all, but it hasn't caused him much trouble, yet, and I think we would have seen issues last year if it was going to.

Luck seems to trust him and he is a good redzone target. He is still so young, so you have to like how much he improved from his rookie season and you have to believe he will continue doing so during his junior campaign.

I'm not as high as some are when it comes to Moncrief (honestly I got him as a throw in during a trade last offseason and I was hesitant), but his flaws are decreasing it appears. I have come around to being intrigued. Let's just say I'm happy to have him on my bench and not on someone else's.

[knut45]

To his credit, I didn't see many drops when I watched nearly all of moncriefs targets from last year. I've not done much film work before but from watching some Matt waldman stuff I understood by letting the ball come into their body players short change themselves potential run after catch opportunities. Just wanted to get a consensus if this is a big deal or not.