How to encourage owners rebuilding?

[dtownnbachamps04]

My co-commish and I were tossing around ideas to better improve the overall experience for our league-mates (all family or friends) who, from our perspective, are struggling with the transition from redraft to dynasty. The majority of our 12 team league seems to not understand the notion of a rebuild and they believe it to be a waste of money and time as of now (based on conversations with various owners).
Our 12 teams cut down to 18 and then we draft 7 rounds of rookies and free agents until the teams are filled to 25 again. The idea is to offer a compensation pick to those owners who release players into the free agent pools that were top players from the year before.
The tentative idea is to have a Top 10 RB/WR be a 1st rounder, 10-20 of each be a 2nd, and 20-30 be a 3rd. The 20-30 RBs are obviously weaker, so we were tossing around ideas still to amend that.
An example I can give of how this would work from the league is as follows: Team A has the 2nd overall pick. His team is in dire need of a rebuild and owns Jeremy Maclin. He was the #9 receiver for ppr last year, but his chances of contributing at the same level are diminished. Team A could release Jeremy Maclin and gain another 1st round pick immediately after his 2nd pick. He could gain 2 of the top 3 rookies and jumpstart a rebuild.
We've scrutinized it on some levels, but I was hoping to get more levels of questioning from this sub. Thanks!
Questions we've already asked and answered pretty decently:
Does this encourage tanking? Maybe, but we already have rules in place that prevent tanking, and a penalty could possibly be a loss of draft pick already.
Does this make it harder to trade veterans for picks in the middle of the year from a struggling team to a team making a run, respectively? I think it could, but that's a risk like anything else in fantasy football. In the example, if Maclin would've fallen outside the top 10, he would've only been worth a 2nd round compensation pick.
I'll do my best to answer questions throughout the day and look forward to the feedback.

[MR ROURKE]

Two of my dynasty leagues have top scorerdrop requrements. Every team has to drop one offensive player and one IDP that were in the top three of the previous year. This puts talent in the daft. This year Cam, Forte, and Brady (those three off the top of my head) are out there in our rookie/free agent draft.

[MR ROURKE]

Another league has a non-playoff tournament for added picks at the end of each of the first four rounds, so there are really 13 picks in those rounds. This helps the non-playoff teams get an extra shot to infuse talent to improve the team.

[dtownnbachamps04]

While I can appreciate your idea, our issue is teams just can't bring themselves to look at their teams and punt on the year. If our league had your rules, the guy with the #1 pick would probably just pick Forte, despite having an old team that in no way will compete this year.

For example, the guy with the #2 pick in our draft just traded it for marshawn lynch. This is a team that is relying on brandon lafell and vincent jackson to be his top 2 receivers, but believes his team is in a situation to win this year and refuses to throw a year or 2 out to set himself up for the future.

It's difficult to fault people for not wanting to punt, it's a hard decision to make. So what we are trying to do is accelerate the rebuild process in order to keep owners interested for more years to come.

I appreciate the input of ideas MR ROURKE

[evorzan]

I struggle with this in my league with friends. Some guys research dynasty and seem to get it when it comes to rebuilding, others just don't get it. I sold Roddy White for JPP and a 2nd round pick during White's age 31 season, and we had an owner accuse me of intentionally tanking. He then used his 1.01 that he earned on Dwayne Allen in 2014, and dropped Arian Foster this year because he's injured.

I guess my point is that I struggle to see how what you're proposing would encourage a true rebuild any more than what is already in place. It feels like it's just a mindset that people get stuck into and you need to try to show them the light by giving them good resources and materials to reference.

[MR ROURKE]

sounds like your problem isn't getting people to rebuild or in dynasty knowledge/awareness. If a team with LaFell and VJAx thinks he's in it to win it, then you have mental instability in your owners. They need help evaluating their team for this year and you say they are former seasonal league players? You just have people that think too highly of their teams. They need to be sent to forums and rankings for a reality check.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I've been struggling with similar issues in my league that started up last preseason. I've been trying to think of ways, but I just can't outside of encouraging them to be active on forums etc to get a better dynasty mindset. At the end of the day, I think it just needs to be learned through experience.

[MR ROURKE]

This is why leagues that are sponsored by FF websites are the best. You know the players in the league just have a higher level of commitment and understanding. If you chose to enter into a league with people who are less into FF than you are... you get to be the big fish in most leagues, but it's not fun just destroying a league and not having a good level of competition. I believe it is best to look for leagues made of players with a similar commitment to you. IT's jusmore enjoyable. Those who aren't on forums, doing their own rankigns, and checking other rankings are never going to truely compete with those that do.

All my leagues are made up of seriously crazy phanatic FF fans from FF forums or invitational leagues sponsored by FF websites like this one. This way I know my leagues will offer competiton and I don't have to watch half the league flounder due to a lesser level of commitment.

[bonscott]

None of your ideas will solve the problem...which is these are redrafters and they aren't changing how they think. Before you started the league I'd would have had a sit down with all the redrafters and really explain what a dynasty is, how it works and the different type of teams you may end up with over time. Also, it's a year round commitment. Trades and waivers can and do happen in March so they need to be involved all year.

If you don't have that from the owners then perhaps it's time to disband and just go redraft with the friends and family league. But if you can get them on board after a league meeting that dynasty is a different beast then maybe you've got a shot long term.

What may help (maybe) is to give examples. Not sure if my team below is a good example or not. I took over an orphan in 2013, it was an ok team, but a losing one. I found old players to be had cheaply so I collected them and made the playoffs last year and was one game from the championship. Now forward to this year, everyone 1 year older but I felt I had another playoff run year in me. BUT Gates goes and gets suspended, Marshall traded, Roddy banged up. Then I get an offer for Forte, best offer I've had in the 2 years I've had the team so I take it and the rebuild is on. I'm now trying to sell the old guys for anything I can get (will be able to more once the season starts I hope) and I don't really care what my record is this year. If I win just 2 games I'm all fine with that. My hope is to complete a rebuild and compete again in 2017.

So the key is that your redrafters need to be able to accept something like being a loser for 2 years to then be strong for years to come after that. It's how the NFL works, it's how dynasty mimics the NFL. If they can't then I don't hold out much hope for the league continuing as a dynasty.

Maybe convert it to a deep keeper league. Keep say 10 players, redraft the rest. This will create a bit of player turnover and allow most teams to compete on a yearly basis. Both my local leagues are keeper leagues. They also have "contracts" so that a player can't be kept for more then say 3 years which also promotes more turnover, but allows teams to still build a core/mini-dynasty. Perhaps after a few years of doing keeper they would be ready to convert over to full on dynasty. Just a thought.

[Pork Sword]

What if you rebuilt your team? My guess is your team is competitive and you'd likely never think to do it. But if you weren't the favorite for this year, you could show them how it's done. Maybe after you punt on this year and the teams see how well you set yourself up for the future, then they'd be able to see first hand the benefits to a rebuild. Just a thought

[ajb3313]

I see some significant flaws with your idea.

The first one that really jumps out is that it seems like a way of funneling good, proven, top shelf talent onto the good teams that aren't rebuilding their rosters. Ignore teams that have traded for picks and we can agree that good teams will then pick at the back of the first round. In a 12-team league, if you're picking 10th or later, you might take TJ Yeldon or Phillip Dorsett. And while there's nothing wrong with those players long-term, if you're a contending team, a guy like Jeremy Maclin being available at that spot (even taking into consideration the injuries and offensive downgrade) is likely to score you more points right now -- at a time when you're trying to win -- than either of those guys.

If I were a contending team with a solid roster, I would love this idea. Bad teams cutting their good players so that I can pick them up with back end picks without having to pay a team what I otherwise would in trade? Sign me up for that.

An example I can give of how this would work from the league is as follows: Team A has the 2nd overall pick. His team is in dire need of a rebuild and owns Jeremy Maclin. He was the #9 receiver for ppr last year, but his chances of contributing at the same level are diminished. Team A could release Jeremy Maclin and gain another 1st round pick immediately after his 2nd pick. He could gain 2 of the top 3 rookies and jumpstart a rebuild.

It would really suck to own the third pick, where you'd be primed for one of Cooper, Gurley, or Gordon, and then see the guy in front of you dump Maclin and get a free pick right ahead of you. In that scenario, a good team then ends up with Maclin and my team ends up with #4 on my board instead of #3 in a year where consensus says the top tier includes only three guys.

[sloth8u]

if your leaguemates are looking to win every year...they are like 95% of the owners i play with over nearly 20 leagues, so i really dont see any problem with how your owners are approaching their teams. if you put quality players from last year back into your draft....they will just take them, so im not real sure how that will help them "rebuild" how we all approach it in terms of youth.

my advice would be to encourage them to do a little more digging into what a dynasty league is all about. maybe even introduce them all to dlf. they can choose to ignore your invite or they can take it in and go from there. dynasty leagues are not for everyone. you have to keep that in mind. if a redraft format suits them better, that may be the way to go. maybe even a 5 or 7 keeper league will work for your crew.

ive never been a fan of a mandatory number before your draft. i play in a few leagues that have a mandatory number and i cut to that, but while most of the league is drafting to fill their roster...im stuck picking from the waivers after the draft because ive traded away the majority of my draft picks. i already had a solid 25, but was forced to cut to 18, now im at a significant disadvantage.

how long has your league been in existence? is there reason to think that the owners cant run their teams? most teams are only a piece or two away from being a contender, so trying to force a rebuild is likely not the best thing for the league. i actually would not be in favor of your proposition if it were brought up in one of my leagues. in your example...your suggesting that cutting jeremy maclin would net you a top 5 rookie pick. that doesnt seem to promote trading, you can just cut guys and get picks.

ive been in leagues that have a similar problem as what your experiencing. there isnt a whole lot you can do. owners who want to win, will try to win every year and not really think about the long term value. if you really think that you have an issue...turn it into a keep 7. that will have everyone keeping pretty much their starters and having plenty of talent in your draft. this obviously doesnt lead to stashing players, but it is a nice way to play a keeper league.

rewarding owners for dropping talent isnt real fair for the entire league. for example, the owner who earned the 6th pick may actually not pick until 10 under your proposition. you cant forget that the majority of rookies will never be worth more than they are when they are drafted. to assume dropping someone for a pick is for the better of a team is misleading. just a stab in the dark, but maybe your family and friends arent dedicated enough to play in a dynasty league. if they dont keep up with player value....you will always have issues. ive never seen a plan in place to encourage teams to rebuild, thats pretty much up to the owner.

[dtownnbachamps04]

Thanks for all the great responses guys; that's exactly what we both wanted in presenting this. There are a couple issues here that I think we can answer as to why it would not be a problem the way it was perceived.

Problem 1: If I were a contending team with a solid roster, I would love this idea. Bad teams cutting their good players so that I can pick them up with back end picks without having to pay a team what I otherwise would in trade? Sign me up for that.

I understand exactly what you're saying, but he is paying for the player by using his 1st round pick on him. If it were a player like Maclin and you drafted him at 1.10, you essentially traded your 1.10 for Maclin. You get no rookie. You just get Maclin. You didn't actually trade, and the person cutting him gets greater face value than if he had traded you for 1.10, thus accelerating a rebuild with better young players.

Problem 2/3: is there reason to think that the owners cant run their teams? most teams are only a piece or two away from being a contender, so trying to force a rebuild is likely not the best thing for the league. i actually would not be in favor of your proposition if it were brought up in one of my leagues. in your example...your suggesting that cutting jeremy maclin would net you a top 5 rookie pick. that doesnt seem to promote trading, you can just cut guys and get picks.

They're capable of running their teams, but it's something we're tossing around in our minds as a preventative measure, and I understand what you mean about promoting trading. All leagues want trading, but this would be another way to sell a guy.

Problem 4: rewarding owners for dropping talent isnt real fair for the entire league. for example, the owner who earned the 6th pick may actually not pick until 10 under your proposition.

The last problem isn't a problem for me and I'll explain why. That assumes the bottom 5 teams had 4 of the top 10 rb or wr, okay I'm with you, could happen. All of those players hold less value than possible rookies? I'm unconvinced that that many players in the top 10 of either position would be players needing to be dropped to significantly rebuild your team. Besides that point, the cut players get put in the draft, so if you're dropping Randall Cobb, he's in the draft.

We definitely need to educate the league better and reaffirm that they understand the aspects of dynasty compared to redraft. We hope we never have to implement an incentive type system like the one described, just looking to get thoughts, so thank you!