You should probably sell George Kittle

[Jigga94]

I'm old enough to remember when Kittle was worth more than Mike Gesecki

I was waiting for this thread to get bumped today

and will be again when he gets hurt next. That's the way it goes around here.

Sad but true

[Ice]

I'm old enough to remember when Kittle was worth more than Mike Gesecki

I was waiting for this thread to get bumped today

and will be again when he gets hurt next. That's the way it goes around here.

Pretty Much!

Yes after yesterday he is a great sell! He was a solid 37.2 points better than his 2.3 points just a week ago.

In 12 weeks now he has had 3 single digit games and 3 missed games. Kittle is solid 50% of the time YTD.

[Mike11]

He's also up to his "high" in touchdowns in a season at 5. He's good, if you don't like him because he's hurt then you probably dislike a lot of players who have been hurt this year.

I'm not saying you should take him round 2 in a startup, startup value for tight end is always to high for my liking. The question now is what's his value in a league you own him. Pitts was already crowned TE1 for his flashes but I think it would be egregious to take him in the first 2 rounds of a startup too.

[Ice]

He's also up to his "high" in touchdowns in a season at 5. He's good, if you don't like him because he's hurt then you probably dislike a lot of players who have been hurt this year.

I'm not saying you should take him round 2 in a startup, startup value for tight end is always to high for my liking. The question now is what's his value in a league you own him. Pitts was already crowned TE1 for his flashes but I think it would be egregious to take him in the first 2 rounds of a startup too.

With Kittle it is never about Liking or Disliking him as a player. His value is very high for those that put zero stock in availability.

On a side note; I can't imagine any Pitts owner selling him for just Kittle. Pitts is still learning where the bathrooms in the locker room and has 21 more targets YTD.

Round 2 does seem a bit high for a TE in a startup unless it's very late in most leagues with no special TE rules.

[Space Cowboy]

Kittle looked fresh for the first time in a while. With the way he plays though, who knows when the next 3-4 week injury comes.

[Jigga94]

Kittle looked fresh for the first time in a while. With the way he plays though, who knows when the next 3-4 week injury comes.

Yup. You would want a solid backup plan at TE with Kittle around. I get that some don't want to pay up for him because of that and I dont think anyone is silly enough to trade away Pitts for him. It's also foolish to point to his 3 single digit performances and lump them in with 3 missed weeks as if you can't sub another TE in lol.

It's strange seeing people that are proponents of Points per game also completely ignore it when it does not fit their narrative. Kittle is 4th among TE in PPG (6th even with the 3 weeks missed). Gronk is 1st lol

[Space Cowboy]

In my TE premium he got swapped for Hockensen around week 3/4/5.

[Cameron Giles]

I was waiting for this thread to get bumped today

and will be again when he gets hurt next. That's the way it goes around here.

Pretty Much!

Yes after yesterday he is a great sell! He was a solid 37.2 points better than his 2.3 points just a week ago.

In 12 weeks now he has had 3 single digit games and 3 missed games. Kittle is solid 50% of the time YTD.

TEs with 3 single digit games this year in PPR:
George Kittle
Darren Waller
TJ Hockenson
Mark Andrews
Travis Kelce
Kyle Pitts
Mike Gesicki
Dalton Schultz

TEs who've missed multiple games this year:
George Kittle
Darren Waller
Rob Gronkowski

So, who's this great TE that doesn't miss games and always scores double digits that we're setting the bar for?

Your valuation that Kittle is only worth a random 2nd round pick as a 28-year-old who's still capable of putting up big games at a wasteland position just never made sense even with the injuries.

[Ice]

and will be again when he gets hurt next. That's the way it goes around here.

Pretty Much!

Yes after yesterday he is a great sell! He was a solid 37.2 points better than his 2.3 points just a week ago.

In 12 weeks now he has had 3 single digit games and 3 missed games. Kittle is solid 50% of the time YTD.

TEs with 3 single digit games this year in PPR:
George Kittle
Darren Waller
TJ Hockenson
Mark Andrews
Travis Kelce
Kyle Pitts
Mike Gesicki
Dalton Schultz

TEs who've missed multiple games this year:
George Kittle
Darren Waller
Rob Gronkowski

So, who's this great TE that doesn't miss games and always scores double digits that we're setting the bar for?

Your valuation that Kittle is only worth a random 2nd round pick as a 28-year-old who's still capable of putting up big games at a wasteland position just never made sense even with the injuries.

You are trying to engage in a he said he said which is a fools argument.

My value is a High 2nd for me........ I could care less where others value him. I have not advocated any one changing their mind only to actually consider his facts over time and value accordingly, If you think he is worth a high 1st or even a mid first then trade for him or sell him. People act like 5-7 rookie picks between a mid first and high second is a lot. NEWS FLASH it isn't.

Two weeks ago he was the 39th ranked TE and this past week he was 1st. The simple reality is if you or anyone wants to pay a high price for a player that since 2019 is only available from a productivity stand point just north of 50% of the time then go for it.

Kittle will obviously help win some games for is owners like this past week and also lose games for his owners like his horrid performance the week prior.

You can put up others stats up all you like but we are discussing a player often injured with plenty of lousy games thrown in. In fact over the last 28 NFL games played he has 11 good ones and one of his 13 point performances was week 17 last year which helped no one. So it is worse when you forget 2019 and look more recently.

He is a SELL player in my book, He is not getting younger and Deebo when on the field (who has his own injury concerns) now looks like by far the best player to own on the team.

Anyone who is actually good at this game knows availability matters and I have been around long enough to know you also know this.

[Cameron Giles]

You are trying to engage in a he said he said which is a fools argument.

My value is a High 2nd for me........ I could care less where others value him. I have not advocated any one changing their mind only to actually consider his facts over time and value accordingly, If you think he is worth a high 1st or even a mid first then trade for him or sell him. People act like 5-7 rookie picks between a mid first and high second is a lot. NEWS FLASH it isn't.

Yes it is. It's the difference between a high caliber prospect in a strong draft and one that isn't. Not to mention, it's just a better trade asset.

Two weeks ago he was the 39th ranked TE and this past week he was 1st. The simple reality is if you or anyone wants to pay a high price for a player that since 2019 is only available from a productivity stand point just north of 50% of the time then go for it.

Since he returned from IR, he's had 4 double-digit games out of 5. I don't know why you're hanging your hat on one dud game where the 49ers run game carried the load.

Kittle will obviously help win some games for is owners like this past week and also lose games for his owners like his horrid performance the week prior.

You can put up others stats up all you like but we are discussing a player often injured with plenty of lousy games thrown in. In fact over the last 28 NFL games played he has 11 good ones and one of his 13 point performances was week 17 last year which helped no one. So it is worse when you forget 2019 and look more recently.

He is a SELL player in my book, He is not getting younger and Deebo when on the field (who has his own injury concerns) now looks like by far the best player to own on the team.

Anyone who is actually good at this game knows availability matters and I have been around long enough to know you also know this.

But again, who is this TE who doesn't have bad games, doesn't miss games, and is unquestionably the #1 target in his offense?

You are criticizing him for things that no other TE in the NFL checks. Kelce of last year might've checked those boxes, but that was the single greatest TE season of all time statistically.

There isn't a perfect TE in dynasty. Pitts is the youngest and high upside, but even he comes with future concerns when they eventually move on from Matt Ryan. There's absolutely risk in trading for Kittle, but his production isn't fools gold.

[Ice]

You are looking at a few games. I am looking at his trajectory of injuries.

Most probably are not even aware he has had 9 injuries since 2017. While that is bad, what is a major concern is all 9 were on his right side.

3 Right side Pedal ankle sprains
2 Right knee sprains
1 Right leg calf sprain
2 Right side Hamstring sprains
1 Right side AC Joint

Since you are reducing this to a pure value argument;

Would you trade 28 year old Kittle for 21 year old E. Moore. He is a player I picked at 2.3 in a league where that pick was discussed for Kittle. These players are 3 points apart YTD.

The point is their value is close today but going forward the projection of that player with a 2nd round value pick is,,,,,,,Well you be the judge.

[thebeast]

You are looking at a few games. I am looking at his trajectory of injuries.

Most probably are not even aware he has had 9 injuries since 2017. While that is bad, what is a major concern is all 9 were on his right side.

3 Right side Pedal ankle sprains
2 Right knee sprains
1 Right leg calf sprain
2 Right side Hamstring sprains
1 Right side AC Joint

Since you are reducing this to a pure value argument;

Would you trade 28 year old Kittle for 21 year old E. Moore. He is a player I picked at 2.3 in a league where that pick was discussed for Kittle. These players are 3 points apart YTD.

The point is their value is close today but going forward the projection of that player with a 2nd round value pick is,,,,,,,Well you be the judge.

Using a player like Moore in this argument is really cherry-picking. And I think it weakens your argument as it shows you are using outlier data points to try and validate your argument. Sure there are some guys you will pick later that outplay their value by quite a lot, but if we redraft this year's rookie draft Moore ends up a top 6 pick.

I recently traded for Kittle in a league that I have Gronk. I sent Mayfiled, Devonta Smith, late first for Burrow and Kittle. I'm happy with the trade and it's likely going to help me net another title. The only TE I can say I would want to own over Kittle for the next three is Kelce.

[Pullo Vision]

Kittle will obviously help win some games for is owners like this past week and also lose games for his owners like his horrid performance the week prior.

He did not lose me that game. Players have low floors- Kittle showed he has a low floor like other TEs but few have his ceiling.

My value is a High 2nd for me........ I could care less where others value him.

Would you trade 28 year old Kittle for 21 year old E. Moore. He is a player I picked at 2.3 in a league where that pick was discussed for Kittle. These players are 3 points apart YTD.

The point is their value is close today but going forward the projection of that player with a 2nd round value pick is,,,,,,,Well you be the judge.

1- That can be your valuation but don't act like it's the majority opinion.
2- No I wouldn't.
3- 3 points apart based on total points is a... poor way to assign value.
4- Can you support your "they're close in value" argument with something other than "it's my opinion"?

[Cameron Giles]

You are looking at a few games. I am looking at his trajectory of injuries.

Most probably are not even aware he has had 9 injuries since 2017. While that is bad, what is a major concern is all 9 were on his right side.

3 Right side Pedal ankle sprains
2 Right knee sprains
1 Right leg calf sprain
2 Right side Hamstring sprains
1 Right side AC Joint

Since you are reducing this to a pure value argument;

Would you trade 28 year old Kittle for 21 year old E. Moore. He is a player I picked at 2.3 in a league where that pick was discussed for Kittle. These players are 3 points apart YTD.

The point is their value is close today but going forward the projection of that player with a 2nd round value pick is,,,,,,,Well you be the judge.

I'm not looking at a few games. I've shown you that coming into this season, Kittle has been an elite producer.

I acknowledge that Kittle's injuries are at least a concern, but you have created this criteria for judging him that no TE in dynasty hits. It just doesn't make sense. If you're concerned about the injuries, you can find a backup TE for cheap to get you through a few games.

Would I trade Kittle for Moore? No, because TE is shallow on value and production and WR is extremely deep with production.

Using Mizelle ADP, here are the players you could've got around 2.01 more/less in PPR:

Trevor Lawrence
Terrace Marshall
Elijah Moore
Michael Carter
Kadarius Toney

I would not trade Kittle for each of those players in a swap.

Now, what could you have gotten around 1.05-1.06:

JaVonte Williams
DeVonta Smith
Jaylen Waddle
Trey Sermon
Rashod Bateman

The options are simply better. You can't say a mid-first isn't that far off from value of a high 2nd.

[Ice]

Some of you are pretty rich.

It’s not disingenuous to use a guy like E, Moore when he was the was player I took when I couldn’t acquire Kittle. many of talk in randomness value but when one looks at actual people it changes.

It’s not wrong to realistically value a player. I was probably one of the few that had a first round grade on Moore. Arguing valuation is pretty foolish.

I get most of you in your quest to act like today’s Kittle is worth 7-10 picks higher than me but in all honesty it’s a silly argument.

We can all agree Kittle is a very good player when on field but where we differ IMO is many of you are blinded by the forest at the edge of the cliff. He is 28 with a significant injury history. He is not getting any younger.

His value isn’t close to what it was on 2019.

That said if you own him.

Btw Moore is a far better Dynasty asset than Kittle these days.