Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Ice » Sat May 15, 2021 6:08 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:13 pm
Ice wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:34 pm
Bronco Billy wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:18 pm

I think it’s a brilliant way of optimizing Etienne’s strengths while hiding his weaknesses. That’s good coaching. It doesn’t mean he’ll play WR. But it does get him the ball in space and could give the Jags a different look if they put Etienne, Shenault, and Robinson all on the field at the same time. That could conceivably put a ton of pressure on opposing LBs and open the offense to fly sweeps each way while still maintaining a power aspect, along with the passing angle.
What weaknesses are you referring to?

686 RA 4952 Yards 7.2 YPA 70 TD's
102 REC 1155 Yards 11.3YPA 8 TD

6107 total yards 7.8 per touch 78 total TD's.

I do agree getting more dynamic players on the field together makes sense.
Like I’ve posted in other threads. I see Etienne struggling between the tackles without gaping holes to run through. He’s too upright, his momentum gets stopped quickly by a thrown arm or a shoulder, he hesitates when the seam is skinny, and he can’t create in tight spaces.

In space he’s a terror and his speed destroys tackling angles.
I won't argue with that you see but I actually disagree. Here is an interesting stat below that shows just under 50% of his total college production came after contact. That is impressive and shows he doesn't go down that easy. he runs through contact hard when needed.

Not saying he will be a big time red zone power back but he has legit 3 down power IMO at the NFL level. His burst will get him a lot of early down work between the 20's as he develops.
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Travis Etienne has 3,087 yards AFTER CONTACT in his career at Clemson.

400 more than any other draft-eligible player.
That info came from a March 9th quote.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby MEuRaH » Sat May 15, 2021 6:26 pm

Yeah and I agree with Ice. We're a broken record, BB sees things one way, we see them the other way.

This video is a nice micro-break down of everything I see, including great contact balance, vision, ability to create space, etc.

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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby MEuRaH » Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm

Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Ice » Sat May 15, 2021 6:37 pm

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
Its like 3 days and just rookies right? I make nothing of it other than he probably wants to see him in a few patterns with his QB.
Last edited by Ice on Sun May 16, 2021 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby MEuRaH » Sat May 15, 2021 6:46 pm

Ice wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:37 pm
dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
Its like 3 days and just rookies right? I make nothing of it other than he probably want's see him in a few patterns with his QB.
Meyer said "all of his minicamp". I took that to mean the entire duration, not just rookies.

Maybe though...
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sat May 15, 2021 7:00 pm

the Jags originally wanted Kadarius Toney. They are likely trying to cram Etienne into the role they had envisioned for Toney. This hybrid role makes a ton of sense if it’s Toney. Etienne, not so much. Looks like it’s going to be a wild ride.

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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby gogobradyarm » Sat May 15, 2021 8:19 pm

I like the upside of Etienne, but I don't think he has near the floor Saquon had coming out.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Sun May 16, 2021 4:00 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:46 pm
Ice wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:37 pm
dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
Its like 3 days and just rookies right? I make nothing of it other than he probably want's see him in a few patterns with his QB.
Meyer said "all of his minicamp". I took that to mean the entire duration, not just rookies.

Maybe though...
There might just not be a lot of value to Etienne pantomiming pass blocking and making imaginary cuts while running the ball past no offense/defensive line for 3 days.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Anteaters » Sun May 16, 2021 4:51 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
More than anything, I think this move is to prolong Etienne's productivity for a year or two. Urban likely sees Etienne as Trevor's backfield partner for the next few years into an era where the Jaguars enjoy significant team success. Because RBs have a relatively short shelf life and JAX is at the very least one year away from contending, it doesn't make sense to subject his future star RB to punishment during a couple of "lost years" for the team.

At the very best, JAX can go 8-9 this season. Last year Cincy could manage only 4-11-1 and the Chargers only 7-9. Assuming JAX lands in the middle at 6-11, there's no need to waste a year's worth of NFL lead RB hits/abuse on the guy you hope is your future playoff game-winning stud. It makes perfect sense to allow Robinson a lot of early-down work over the entire 2021 season, and maybe into 2022. And if that's the plan, why not train Etienne how to be a better receiver by spending the entire preseason with the WRs?

I think it's a very shrewd move. And in the end, JAX can either trade Robinson for a decent return, or keep him on to help in a lesser role in 2022-23 at a very manageable salary cap price.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby tresskid84 » Sun May 16, 2021 8:01 am

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:00 pm the Jags originally wanted Kadarius Toney. They are likely trying to cram Etienne into the role they had envisioned for Toney. This hybrid role makes a ton of sense if it’s Toney. Etienne, not so much. Looks like it’s going to be a wild ride.
You know who would be perfect for the Toney role? Laviska Shenault, aka the better version of Toney, lol.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun May 16, 2021 8:38 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:31 pm Oh, but I question the coaching decision to draft Etienne and then rep him exclusively at WR. This makes no sense to me. Why draft a guy in the first round only to try to make him something he's not?

To me, this is either:

(1) Meyer out-coaching himself / being too creative as a first year NFL coach, or
(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field in a dumb way, or
(3) Trying to make it look like he wants to keep J Rob as the starter at RB to increase his value on trades with other NFL teams

I don't know what to make of it.
Have you considered that it’s your rigid vision that is the problem and not Meyer’s judgment?

If Meyer intends to use Etienne in a hybrid slash type role it fits right into Etienne’s wheelhouse regarding his strengths as a player. Think of what Meyer has done with Etienne type players in the past - Percy Harvin, Curtis Samuel, Paris Campbell, Paris Warren, etc and how he deployed them as flexible offensive weapons that both ran the ball out of nontraditional sets and sometimes out of traditional sets, and as receivers lining up all across the formation. Something Kamara has done, and then CMC and most recently Gibson and the success these kinds of players are realizing in the NFL.

Could it be that he’s ahead of the curve and that it might be you that is stuck in his processing and imagination in utilizing players? If that’s how Meyer intends to implement Etienne it fits his game perfectly and also justifies a less creative evaluator’s notion of draft capital and value.

Just something to roll around a little and chew on...

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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby MEuRaH » Sun May 16, 2021 10:26 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Have you considered that it’s your rigid vision that is the problem and not Meyer’s judgment?
I already said that.
dlf_mikeh wrote:(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field
I don't think making your RB play his entire minicamp at WR is smart, which is what I was referring to when I called it a "dumb way", but I'm reading that those reports weren't worded correctly and Etienne's reps won't be exclusive to WR, so that's a non-issue now.

I think it'd be wise to get your top 5 play-makers on the field at the same time. JRob, Etienne, Chark, Marvin Jones.... insert 5th player here. Having Etienne able to play multiple spots would be a nice luxury. I wonder if JRob could double as FB and lead block for Etienne.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun May 16, 2021 11:03 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:26 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Have you considered that it’s your rigid vision that is the problem and not Meyer’s judgment?
I already said that.
dlf_mikeh wrote:(2) Meyer realizing he has a good enough RB and he's trying to be dynamic and get more play-makers on the field
I don't think making your RB play his entire minicamp at WR is smart, which is what I was referring to when I called it a "dumb way", but I'm reading that those reports weren't worded correctly and Etienne's reps won't be exclusive to WR, so that's a non-issue now.

I think it'd be wise to get your top 5 play-makers on the field at the same time. JRob, Etienne, Chark, Marvin Jones.... insert 5th player here. Having Etienne able to play multiple spots would be a nice luxury. I wonder if JRob could double as FB and lead block for Etienne.
FB? Really? A guy who put up the 6th best ypc in the league for any RB over 200 carries? On a crappy offense like JAX had last year? Robinson isn’t a luxury. He’s a necessity.

If you had told me Etienne was in line this year to get 130-140 carries and 100 targets, I would have moved him up to 1.01. Now it could be a real possibility. Teams are going to need multiple RBs to share workloads with the league going to 17 games. It looks like JAX may have a great committee right now, with both top RBs able to both rush and catch, and possibly both on the field at the same time at times to add a wrinkle. Robinson is a proven 220 lb hammer who can catch out of the backfield. JAX needs him to take on 220-240 carries and 40 targets. There ought to be plenty of opportunity left for Etienne if they are headed where Meyer’s and Bevell’s MO might take them, and again it looks like they are aiming at going right into Etienne’s strengths with what would be his usage.

If they go that way that is.

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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Pullo Vision » Sun May 16, 2021 12:49 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:18 pm
PPE82 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:03 pm Meyer saying he wants ETN to be a hybrid and is taking snaps exclusively at WR during rookie camp. Thoughts?
I think it’s a brilliant way of optimizing Etienne’s strengths while hiding his weaknesses. That’s good coaching. It doesn’t mean he’ll play WR. But it does get him the ball in space and could give the Jags a different look if they put Etienne, Shenault, and Robinson all on the field at the same time. That could conceivably put a ton of pressure on opposing LBs and open the offense to fly sweeps each way while still maintaining a power aspect, along with the passing angle.
I can see Etienne playing the Harvin/Samuel role that they had in college. Bit of rushing, bit of receiving. Go ahead and look at how Meyer used Curtis Samuel and Percy Harvin. As soon as Meyer said Etienne was his SECOND choice and he really REALLY wanted Toney, that said they weren't looking for an RB to replace Robinson but a guy to fill a role.

As soon as I saw people dropping JRob hard for a guy gonna fill a Harvin/Samuel role, I tried to scoop Robinson up everywhere. Unfortunately, it was just 2 leagues- one guy paid heavy for him and isn't letting go, the other has checked out for the offseason.
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Re: Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

Postby Pullo Vision » Sun May 16, 2021 12:57 pm

tresskid84 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:01 am
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:00 pm the Jags originally wanted Kadarius Toney. They are likely trying to cram Etienne into the role they had envisioned for Toney. This hybrid role makes a ton of sense if it’s Toney. Etienne, not so much. Looks like it’s going to be a wild ride.
You know who would be perfect for the Toney role? Laviska Shenault, aka the better version of Toney, lol.
Pre-draft, I was going after Shenault for that very reason (Harvin/Samuel role). Their Toney attempt and Etienne drafting cooled me hard on that. It's like Shenault is an afterthought. Curious how much they examined him before making their draft plans.
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