*MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am

The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am
The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.
Of course they don’t stop all hits from happening as evidenced by so many roughing penalties.

That said, for QB’s this season, diving forward is no different than sliding for a QB these days as it relates to ball position. Not sure I like that btw.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby BigJoeWall72 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm

I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:08 am

BigJoeWall72 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm
I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
He's taken unecessary hits, though, which is concerning. Not remotely close to Russ in terms of avoiding contact. Nor is he even close to Russ in the MVP conversation, either. Recency bias. He played well vs the Pats, but he's had multiple games this year where he's been poor. Wilson has not. This is not me hating on Lamar, but he's not on the level Wilson is on either of these things. Russ in on another level.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby BigJoeWall72 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:18 am

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:08 am
BigJoeWall72 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm
I am not able to watch a ton of Ravens games, but when I see Lamar Jackson run I feel like I almost never see him take "big" or direct hits. A lot like Russel Wilson (previously mentioned) or Barry Sanders. I don't know if that's a quantifiable stat or not, but that's just what it seems like to me.

I guess my basic point is that not all rushing attempts, or rushing QBs, are the same with regards to "risk of injury". If he keeps that style up, he could theoretically keep up the high number of rushing attempts. Pair that with the quality passing numbers over a a few more years and that would "redefine the position within his skill set".
He's taken unecessary hits, though, which is concerning. Not remotely close to Russ in terms of avoiding contact. Nor is he even close to Russ in the MVP conversation, either. Recency bias. He played well vs the Pats, but he's had multiple games this year where he's been poor. Wilson has not. This is not me hating on Lamar, but he's not on the level Wilson is on either of these things. Russ in on another level.
Um... ok? I didn't say that Lamar was in the MVP conversation. The MVP is Russel Wilson's at this point, and it's not even close (in my opinion). I don't know where that's coming from in response to my post, because I didn't bring it up.

What I did say, was that in a few years, if he keeps up this current style of play, Lamar Jackson will have redefined how it is possible to play the position in this style in the NFL. And like I said a couple different times, I wasn't 100% sure that Lamar always avoids big hits, but that's just what it seems like to me when I get a chance to see him play.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am

The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Weknownothing86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 am

Even the doubters have to admit he has gotten better at passing AND is playing the QB position as a whole (passing,running, leading, running the offense, etc) better than anyone expected this season. Lets all try and remember its his second season, first full season. All i really care about is the steady progression he has shown throwing the ball, running the offense, becoming a leader, etc. He most definitely hasnt shown any regression. The most important thing with these young QBs is can they keep the job, and Lamar has shown more than any 2018 drafted QB that he is going to keep his job. The short leash some people give these guys is just astounding and annoying. Its like Lamar has to have Tom Brady accuracy right out the gate and no one is giving him any room to grow. Lamar is getting better in every aspect of his game and most importantly wins. The doubters are just flat out wrong on him. Keep hating ill keep reaping the rewards for my fantasy team.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:40 am

I love how anyone doubting Ljax is a hater. Sorry but I heard the same arguments with Tim Teblow too. He was out of the league after 3 years including taking his team to the playoffs and getting a playoff win. With Kaepernick there was talk about replacing him after the team stopped winning and that was AFTER leading his team to a SB appearance. Color me a hater all you want but I feel as tho I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends. Am I saying there's 0 chance LJax proves me wrong? No; but, I think that possibility is a lot closer to 0 than it is 100%. And that's a lot more than his supporters are willing to admit.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:01 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am
The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
Who's hating? Strong word.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:11 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am
The fact that he's in the MVP conversation should tell the haters something... But ok :roll:
Kaep was in the MVP convo in 2013 too.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/ ... kaepernick

But ok :roll:
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Weknownothing86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am

Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that. Dont lump lamar in with totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Weknownothing86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:51 am

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
Lamar is more elusive than Kaep, avoids contact better, and is faster. And how could that not be a plus to his fantasy ability? It helps him get the numbers and points he puts up to have a system tailored to him, he is in his first full season, he isnt a grizzled vet who reads the field well and can make great throws, so how does it not help him to have a system for him? I also dont see the point in comparing a player from 6 years ago who is out of the league to one now. You cant act like they will end up the same way. You have no idea about that. Judge Lamar as the player he is individually, dont compare him to other players you feel are like him. If you want to compare ( i dont, but you do) lets compare him to the 2018 QB class, he has played better than all of them this season correct
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby themburns » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:51 am
djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
Lamar is more elusive than Kaep, avoids contact better, and is faster. And how could that not be a plus to his fantasy ability? It helps him get the numbers and points he puts up to have a system tailored to him, he is in his first full season, he isnt a grizzled vet who reads the field well and can make great throws, so how does it not help him to have a system for him? I also dont see the point in comparing a player from 6 years ago who is out of the league to one now. You cant act like they will end up the same way. You have no idea about that. Judge Lamar as the player he is individually, dont compare him to other players you feel are like him. If you want to compare ( i dont, but you do) lets compare him to the 2018 QB class, he has played better than all of them this season correct
What I meant about the system tailored to Lamar not being a plus to Lamar was in regards to not being able to say Lamar is better than Kaep because the system is tailored to Lamar. Lamar has no control over that it's what good coaches do.

As for comparing players you would be the rare fantasy player that doesn't compare players to other players they've seen. Most of the time it happens with rookies coming in. Also if you are saying Kaep can't be compared to Ljax why would anyone compare him to the rest of the 18 class? At least Kaep had success in the NFL with a similar skill set.

And last thing I'm going to say on this is the qualities you listed are subjective and I wouldn't necessarily cede that Lamar is better automatically. Not saying this is you per se but imo the national anthem stuff with Kaep clouds a lot of people's judgement on what Kaep was in 2012 & 2013 as a player. That said the one thing Lamar is getting that no other running QB has gotten previously is volume. I feel if Vick or Kaep had gotten this kind of consistent volume we would've seen similar rushing #s.
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QB - Ryan, Wentz
RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

DLF Early Birds - 16 tm SF (1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 SF
QB - A Rodgers, Darnold, Rosen, M Rudolph, Luck
RB - Dam Williams, J Howard, Crowell, Duke, AP, Gore, B Hill
WR - Julio, Golladay, Kirk, Stills, Manny Sanders, Kumerow, N Harry
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