Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the NFL & Fantasy

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
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RB - Gurley, A Jones, Cohen, Kerryon, Dam Williams, Duke, I Smith, Armstead, T Carson
WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
DL - Watt, K Clark, Q Williams
LB - D Jones, D Bush
DB - K Neal, Bell

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RB - Damian Williams, J Howard, Duke, AP, Gore
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:51 am

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
Lamar is more elusive than Kaep, avoids contact better, and is faster. And how could that not be a plus to his fantasy ability? It helps him get the numbers and points he puts up to have a system tailored to him, he is in his first full season, he isnt a grizzled vet who reads the field well and can make great throws, so how does it not help him to have a system for him? I also dont see the point in comparing a player from 6 years ago who is out of the league to one now. You cant act like they will end up the same way. You have no idea about that. Judge Lamar as the player he is individually, dont compare him to other players you feel are like him. If you want to compare ( i dont, but you do) lets compare him to the 2018 QB class, he has played better than all of them this season correct

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby themburns » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
The reason Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a starting NFL job right now doesn't have anything to do with his football ability.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:51 am
djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 am
Kaep is a totally different player from Lamar. You cant take past history and lump all these QBs together, thats ridiculous, and unfair to use in assessing lamar. Take the individual player and assess that, not totally different players from 6 years ago. Lamar has many different qualities that Kaepernick did not have. The ravens have also taken there offense and melded it to fit what lamar does best at the moment. The niners didnt do that with Kaepernick. And come on with the Tebow stuff, Lamar is a better passer already than Tebow ever was.
What qualities does Lamar have that Kaep does not?

The fact that the offense is tailored to take advantage of Lamar's ability is not a plus to Lamar. That's how good coaches work. They tailor their system offense or defense to the players they have. Other coaches have good systems which they run no matter the players they have which is how we have Arians not utilizing OJ Howard as a receiver despite his ability as a receiver.

And you seriously believe the SF off was not tailored to Kaep? If you believe that then Kaep > LJax since he ran an offense not tailored to him and took it to within 1 play of winning the SB. :twisted:
Lamar is more elusive than Kaep, avoids contact better, and is faster. And how could that not be a plus to his fantasy ability? It helps him get the numbers and points he puts up to have a system tailored to him, he is in his first full season, he isnt a grizzled vet who reads the field well and can make great throws, so how does it not help him to have a system for him? I also dont see the point in comparing a player from 6 years ago who is out of the league to one now. You cant act like they will end up the same way. You have no idea about that. Judge Lamar as the player he is individually, dont compare him to other players you feel are like him. If you want to compare ( i dont, but you do) lets compare him to the 2018 QB class, he has played better than all of them this season correct
What I meant about the system tailored to Lamar not being a plus to Lamar was in regards to not being able to say Lamar is better than Kaep because the system is tailored to Lamar. Lamar has no control over that it's what good coaches do.

As for comparing players you would be the rare fantasy player that doesn't compare players to other players they've seen. Most of the time it happens with rookies coming in. Also if you are saying Kaep can't be compared to Ljax why would anyone compare him to the rest of the 18 class? At least Kaep had success in the NFL with a similar skill set.

And last thing I'm going to say on this is the qualities you listed are subjective and I wouldn't necessarily cede that Lamar is better automatically. Not saying this is you per se but imo the national anthem stuff with Kaep clouds a lot of people's judgement on what Kaep was in 2012 & 2013 as a player. That said the one thing Lamar is getting that no other running QB has gotten previously is volume. I feel if Vick or Kaep had gotten this kind of consistent volume we would've seen similar rushing #s.
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WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
QB - Mahomes, Mayfield, Wentz,
RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
WR - Nuk, AJG, ARob, JJS, Samuel, MVS, T Smith, D Hamilton, Gallup, K Johnson
TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:59 pm

Ice wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am
The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.
Of course they don’t stop all hits from happening as evidenced by so many roughing penalties.

That said, for QB’s this season, diving forward is no different than sliding for a QB these days as it relates to ball position. Not sure I like that btw.
Maybe I'm not getting exactly what you're trying to say here, but there most definitely are a couple of differences between a QB diving for yardage versus sliding if my interpretation of the rules is accurate.

1. A diving QB will have the ball placed at the spot it ends up in when downed by contact, as a forward diving QB is a player you can hit. Of course, the defender must take care not to hit late, or hit to the head. But you can hit a QB who is diving forward.

2. You cannot hit a QB who is sliding feet forward, baseball style. They have given themself up, and hitting them results in a penalty. Additionally, the ball is placed at the spot it was when the QB initiated the slide. Not where the slide finishes. I'm pretty sure it was Kirk Cousins in Week 9 who was scrambling for a first-down, but when he saw the defenders heading his way decided to slide. Unfortunately for the Vikings, he initiated his slide short of the first down marker so they did not pick up a new set of downs.
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RB: J. Mixon, N. Chubb, M. Breida, L. Murray, J. Jackson
WR:M. Thomas, T.Y. Hilton, C. Godwin, S. Watkins, D. Pettis, J. Reynolds, H. Butler
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Shoreline Steamers wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:59 pm
Ice wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am
bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am
The rules don't stop those hits happening, took out Rodgers last year even with the rules in place.
Of course they don’t stop all hits from happening as evidenced by so many roughing penalties.

That said, for QB’s this season, diving forward is no different than sliding for a QB these days as it relates to ball position. Not sure I like that btw.
Maybe I'm not getting exactly what you're trying to say here, but there most definitely are a couple of differences between a QB diving for yardage versus sliding if my interpretation of the rules is accurate.

1. A diving QB will have the ball placed at the spot it ends up in when downed by contact, as a forward diving QB is a player you can hit. Of course, the defender must take care not to hit late, or hit to the head. But you can hit a QB who is diving forward.

2. You cannot hit a QB who is sliding feet forward, baseball style. They have given themself up, and hitting them results in a penalty. Additionally, the ball is placed at the spot it was when the QB initiated the slide. Not where the slide finishes. I'm pretty sure it was Kirk Cousins in Week 9 who was scrambling for a first-down, but when he saw the defenders heading his way decided to slide. Unfortunately for the Vikings, he initiated his slide short of the first down marker so they did not pick up a new set of downs.
Nah they changed it for headfirst to be treated like sliding feet first in Aug 2018.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... st-slides/

In 2018, the NFL is considering a player to have given himself up if he dives head first, the same way a player has given himself up when he slides feet first. That means a player can’t be hit after he goes into a head-first dive, and it also means the ball will be spotted at the point where the player began to dive, rather than at the point where the player finished moving forward.

“A quarterback does not have to slide feet first to be considered to be giving himself up,” the league’s online rules say. “Regardless whether the slide is feet first or head first, as long as he gives himself up, he should receive the protections afforded to him as a player in a defenseless posture.”


There was a play early this season where the QB dove headfirst to try and break the plane for a TD and he was ruled short due to the rule change from last year.
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WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:14 pm

That's a dumb implementation of the rule, and it's going to cause a major issue someday.

Watch in the playoffs the Saints have a 4th and Goal at the end of the game and needing a TD. Brees scrambles and dives for the endzone and gets it, but they enforce this rule to say he gave himself up. Saints get "screwed" again, it will be hilarious.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Thanks for clearing that up. Guess I wasn't paying attention. Sorry Ice.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Ice » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:36 pm

Shoreline Steamers wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:17 pm
Thanks for clearing that up. Guess I wasn't paying attention. Sorry Ice.
No worries, I think it's a dumb move personally and had to research it when I saw the refs do this a few times.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:41 pm

djeternal2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:06 pm
Shoreline Steamers wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:59 pm
Ice wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am


Of course they don’t stop all hits from happening as evidenced by so many roughing penalties.

That said, for QB’s this season, diving forward is no different than sliding for a QB these days as it relates to ball position. Not sure I like that btw.
Maybe I'm not getting exactly what you're trying to say here, but there most definitely are a couple of differences between a QB diving for yardage versus sliding if my interpretation of the rules is accurate.

1. A diving QB will have the ball placed at the spot it ends up in when downed by contact, as a forward diving QB is a player you can hit. Of course, the defender must take care not to hit late, or hit to the head. But you can hit a QB who is diving forward.

2. You cannot hit a QB who is sliding feet forward, baseball style. They have given themself up, and hitting them results in a penalty. Additionally, the ball is placed at the spot it was when the QB initiated the slide. Not where the slide finishes. I'm pretty sure it was Kirk Cousins in Week 9 who was scrambling for a first-down, but when he saw the defenders heading his way decided to slide. Unfortunately for the Vikings, he initiated his slide short of the first down marker so they did not pick up a new set of downs.
Nah they changed it for headfirst to be treated like sliding feet first in Aug 2018.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... st-slides/

In 2018, the NFL is considering a player to have given himself up if he dives head first, the same way a player has given himself up when he slides feet first. That means a player can’t be hit after he goes into a head-first dive, and it also means the ball will be spotted at the point where the player began to dive, rather than at the point where the player finished moving forward.

“A quarterback does not have to slide feet first to be considered to be giving himself up,” the league’s online rules say. “Regardless whether the slide is feet first or head first, as long as he gives himself up, he should receive the protections afforded to him as a player in a defenseless posture.”


There was a play early this season where the QB dove headfirst to try and break the plane for a TD and he was ruled short due to the rule change from last year.
I remember Wentz did it on a 2 pointer, and had it called short. It was a terrible implementation, and the announcers agreed. Wentz was diving to score, not giving himself up.
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby djeternal2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:50 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:41 pm



I remember Wentz did it on a 2 pointer, and had it called short. It was a terrible implementation, and the announcers agreed. Wentz was diving to score, not giving himself up.
Maybe that's the play I'm remembering. I just remember having to google the rule because I hadn't heard of it changing until seeing that play.
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WR - AJG, Watkins, ARob, A. Cooper, K Allen, M Williams, Godwin, Callaway, JJAW
TE - Gesicki, I Smith, Herndon, Eifert, Sternberger, Dissly

10 tm TE prem 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, K, 2 DB, 2 DL, 2 LB (Yr 5)
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RB - Zeke, Chubb, Kerryon, Duke, Edmonds, B Hill
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TE - Njoku, Eifert, Herndon, I Smith, I Thomas, Moreau
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby mild » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm

I hate that this is the Lamar Jackson thread, and the amount of negativity from posters for a player that is doing nothing but show out so far. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to be swayed on how long he can do this - but I'm just glad that freezing cold water has been dumped on everything else so far "he's an RB" "he should play WR" "he can't pass"... awful quiet out there from those corners now.

How about something fun and statistical related to the title to get us all in the mood for celebrating Lamar's skills and achievements.

"DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson have better QBR's when under pressure than Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield have when they are NOT under pressure" - PFF

What a guy.

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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:18 pm

mild wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm
I hate that this is the Lamar Jackson thread, and the amount of negativity from posters for a player that is doing nothing but show out so far. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to be swayed on how long he can do this - but I'm just glad that freezing cold water has been dumped on everything else so far "he's an RB" "he should play WR" "he can't pass"... awful quiet out there from those corners now.

How about something fun and statistical related to the title to get us all in the mood for celebrating Lamar's skills and achievements.

"DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson have better QBR's when under pressure than Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield have when they are NOT under pressure" - PFF

What a guy.
I just don't get it... Do people really love to hate this much? Sit back and enjoy the good football this guy is giving us. Or get off my lawn!
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:26 pm

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:18 pm
mild wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm
I hate that this is the Lamar Jackson thread, and the amount of negativity from posters for a player that is doing nothing but show out so far. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to be swayed on how long he can do this - but I'm just glad that freezing cold water has been dumped on everything else so far "he's an RB" "he should play WR" "he can't pass"... awful quiet out there from those corners now.

How about something fun and statistical related to the title to get us all in the mood for celebrating Lamar's skills and achievements.

"DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson have better QBR's when under pressure than Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield have when they are NOT under pressure" - PFF

What a guy.
I just don't get it... Do people really love to hate this much? Sit back and enjoy the good football this guy is giving us. Or get off my lawn!
Who's hating? I don't understand where you are getting this from. All I see is people questioning the longevity of his style, and how good of a passer he actually is. It's a dynasty forum, those questions are completely relevant. The running back comments, yeah. I get that. There may be a few here who are trying to get people riled up, but for people to question how long this style can last, and how relevant he can become as a pure thrower etc., are completely fair questions in the context of a Dynasty Discussion.
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Jigga94
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Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:28 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:26 pm
Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:18 pm
mild wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm
I hate that this is the Lamar Jackson thread, and the amount of negativity from posters for a player that is doing nothing but show out so far. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to be swayed on how long he can do this - but I'm just glad that freezing cold water has been dumped on everything else so far "he's an RB" "he should play WR" "he can't pass"... awful quiet out there from those corners now.

How about something fun and statistical related to the title to get us all in the mood for celebrating Lamar's skills and achievements.

"DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson have better QBR's when under pressure than Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield have when they are NOT under pressure" - PFF

What a guy.
I just don't get it... Do people really love to hate this much? Sit back and enjoy the good football this guy is giving us. Or get off my lawn!
Who's hating? I don't understand where you are getting this from. All I see is people questioning the longevity of his style, and how good of a passer he actually is. It's a dynasty forum, those questions are completely relevant. The running back comments, yeah. I get that. There may be a few here who are trying to get people riled up, but for people to question how long this style can last, and how relevant he can become as a pure thrower etc., are completely fair questions in the context of a Dynasty Discussion.
Why are you so damn defensive all the time? Chill out man
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - 14 Keepers
QB: Mahomes, Baker, D. Jones, Minshew, Luck
RB: Mostert, Sony, Penny, D. Freeman, Snell, J. Jackson, Hyde, Gaskin
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Julio, Hollywood, Cooks, Preston, Parris, C. Davis, MVS
TE: Andrews, Henry, Fant, Irv
2020: 1.02, 2.02, 3.02, 4.02, 4.08

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - 20 Keepers
QB: Dak, Ryan, Minshew, Cam
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Hunt, Penny, J. Jackson
WR: DJM, Chark, Hardman, Mike Will, Diontae, Parris, C. Davis, Lazard
TE: Andrews, Henry, Gesicki
2020: 1.07, 1.09, 2.05
2021: 1, 1, 2, 3


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