Unvaccinated Player List

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:16 pm

Jigga94 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:14 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:11 pm
Patsfan86 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:30 am The NFL is just so stupid. This Martin news really makes this vaccinated vs unvaccinated topic moot. If vaxxed players still have to sit there is almost no point in bumping the unvaxxed players down. Martin did everything right according to the NFL policy and his team is still getting punished. Listen im pro vax but this is ridiculous at this point, and i hope we all know its done for PR purposes not because the NFL actually cares about any of this.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, but if you have COVID, you have COVID. If someone is positive, they should be treated as such, regardless if they have the vaccine. It's about stopping it from spreading. How are the Cowboys getting punished, maybe I missed something? If you are talking about not having Martin available, it makes perfect sense, if there was some other punishment I am unaware of, maybe you could point that out to me.
Was just wondering this myself. If someone has Covid, being vaccinated means nothing.
Right. If I call my work tomorrow, and say I have Covid, they will tell me I can't come in. If I say, "but I'm vaccinated", they aren't going to say, "oh, well come on in, then.." So it's not just the NFL. It would be literally any business. Again, maybe I am missing the point he was trying to make, so I will let him clarify.
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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby mild » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:54 pm

Being vaccinated does mean something - it means he'll likely recover in a matter of days, rather than weeks (hi Lamar). So I expect Martin will be ready to go next week. (Bad timing for the Cowboys to have an iffy OL... this Bucs defense looks about as complete a defense as I've seen in a while.)

It's also the difference between being on a ventilator or not, in the more extreme cases. "Instead of fatal pneumonia, those with breakthrough infections have a short, bad cold, so the vaccine has already proved itself. The vaccinated are not dying of COVID-19."
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... octor-shot

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:19 pm

mild wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:54 pm Being vaccinated does mean something - it means he'll likely recover in a matter of days, rather than weeks (hi Lamar). So I expect Martin will be ready to go next week. (Bad timing for the Cowboys to have an iffy OL... this Bucs defense looks about as complete a defense as I've seen in a while.)

It's also the difference between being on a ventilator or not, in the more extreme cases. "Instead of fatal pneumonia, those with breakthrough infections have a short, bad cold, so the vaccine has already proved itself. The vaccinated are not dying of COVID-19."
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... octor-shot
I understand the effects are generally less on vaccinated people, but it doesn't make a difference when making protocols to try to stop preventing the spread of it, which was the crux of the discussion.
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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby Ice » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:31 pm

mild wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:54 pm Being vaccinated does mean something - it means he'll likely recover in a matter of days, rather than weeks (hi Lamar). So I expect Martin will be ready to go next week. (Bad timing for the Cowboys to have an iffy OL... this Bucs defense looks about as complete a defense as I've seen in a while.)

It's also the difference between being on a ventilator or not, in the more extreme cases. "Instead of fatal pneumonia, those with breakthrough infections have a short, bad cold, so the vaccine has already proved itself. The vaccinated are not dying of COVID-19."
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... octor-shot
I am 100% on board with Vaccinations and have been and if you're actually in the NFL the rules are such that you should get vaccinated for the benefit of the team due to the stay away rules.

That said there is so much mis-information out there it borders on silliness. Bottom line the Vaccine does give one better odds of avoiding Covid but doesn't stop one from getting Covid.

What do you actually think the Vaccinated human body does if you get Covid?
What do you actually think the bodies immune system does if you already have had Covid and are exposed again but are not vaccinated?

No doubt if one has never been vaccinated and get Covid the hospitalization is super high compared to the vaccinated that still get Covid which is the narrative but why is it people do not talk much about Hospitalization rates of Vaccinated patients getting Covid vs those that recovered from Covid, are not vaccinated, yet get it again even though it is modestly higher. Maybe 2.5 times but the numbers are really small. BTW 2.5 times is a very small number if you do the research.

Regardless, booster shots will be a way of life in the next few months much like an annual flu shot. Looking forward to getting mine in a few months.
Last edited by Ice on Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby mild » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:31 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:19 pm I understand the effects are generally less on vaccinated people, but it doesn't make a difference when making protocols to try to stop preventing the spread of it, which was the crux of the discussion.
I mean, sure... except home-boys post literally starts with:
Patsfan86 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:30 am The NFL is just so stupid. This Martin news really makes this vaccinated vs unvaccinated topic moot.
Martin will be back sooner than later thanks to the vax. Martin is a part of a smaller statistic of "breakthrough" cases, where a vax'd person still develops COVID (usually the new Delta strain).

He did all he could, and it will mean a 1 game absence as opposed to a 3 game one. There's value in that.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:49 pm

mild wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:31 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:19 pm I understand the effects are generally less on vaccinated people, but it doesn't make a difference when making protocols to try to stop preventing the spread of it, which was the crux of the discussion.
I mean, sure... except home-boys post literally starts with:
Patsfan86 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:30 am The NFL is just so stupid. This Martin news really makes this vaccinated vs unvaccinated topic moot.
Martin will be back sooner than later thanks to the vax. Martin is a part of a smaller statistic of "breakthrough" cases, where a vax'd person still develops COVID (usually the new Delta strain).

He did all he could, and it will mean a 1 game absence as opposed to a 3 game one. There's value in that.
There is value in not missing as much time, to be sure. The vax vs non vax is moot once they get Covid, because regardless if they are vaxxed are not, they can now spread it. The protocols for close contact however, between vaxxed and unvaxxed is different, so the original comment he made is sort of disingenuous.

Players who are not fully vaccinated are subject to a five-day quarantine after being determined to be a high-risk close contact, per the NFL-NFLPA protocol, and can return to the team at the end of the five-day period if they test negative and remain asymptomatic.

Fully vaccinated individuals will not be designated as high-risk close contacts, but can be held to daily testing for five days. Therefore, only unvaccinated players are at risk of missing games without a positive test.
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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby Ray Finkle » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:55 pm

I assumed the difference in protocol for close contact cases would be the major difference between the vaxed vs. the unvaxed.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby Ice » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:57 pm

@ FantasyFreak.

Good Summary! :thumbup:
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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby KingsKing » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:16 pm

I'm not here to start a fight or anything but im hoping for somebody with a better memory than mine , can anyone actually remember a player missing 3 games last year because of covid? how about 2 games? . It seems to the best of my memory 99% of guys last year missed a single game and most were cleared before a 2nd game. Can anyone refresh my memory.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby TheBelgian » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:30 pm

KingsKing wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:16 pm I'm not here to start a fight or anything but im hoping for somebody with a better memory than mine , can anyone actually remember a player missing 3 games last year because of covid? how about 2 games? . It seems to the best of my memory 99% of guys last year missed a single game and most were cleared before a 2nd game. Can anyone refresh my memory.
You are right. A high percent of players missed just one single game. There are outliers as well though. Ryquell Armstead missed most or all of the season. I'm sure there are more. Armstead is the only one I could think of off the top of the noggin.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby mild » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm

KingsKing wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:16 pm I'm not here to start a fight or anything but im hoping for somebody with a better memory than mine , can anyone actually remember a player missing 3 games last year because of covid? how about 2 games? . It seems to the best of my memory 99% of guys last year missed a single game and most were cleared before a 2nd game. Can anyone refresh my memory.
Lamar had to miss 2 weeks worth of practice just this preseason.

The minimum time away for non-Vax is 10 days. So, if you got put on that list on the Saturday night before a game, then for sure - you can miss two weeks of games, as the minimum.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby KingsKing » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:47 pm

mild wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm
KingsKing wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:16 pm I'm not here to start a fight or anything but im hoping for somebody with a better memory than mine , can anyone actually remember a player missing 3 games last year because of covid? how about 2 games? . It seems to the best of my memory 99% of guys last year missed a single game and most were cleared before a 2nd game. Can anyone refresh my memory.
Lamar had to miss 2 weeks worth of practice just this preseason.

The minimum time away for non-Vax is 10 days. So, if you got put on that list on the Saturday night before a game, then for sure - you can miss two weeks of games, as the minimum.
I know they changed the rules this year so that being vaccinated would be an advantage by enforcing the 10 day rules but im talking about last season before we had the vaccine and the 10 day rule. I don't seem to recall anyone missing much time.

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby Patsfan86 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:39 am

So what are we gonna do then? Test players for covid forever? Even if you are vaccinated? Covid is with us forever, its endemic, its how itll be. And football may just be unlucky enough to coincide with peak Covid seasonality, we arent 100 percent sure on that yet but it seems that way. I only see two ways out of this situation since i feel a vaccinated player should not miss any games. The player got the vaccine, the player did their part, its time to move on with life and let them play. So its Either not let players be in the league if they arent vaccinated (i dont like this option but if we are going for unrealistic Zero Covid in the NFL i guess this is the way to do it.) or pretty simple, stop testing vaccinated players. Once again Covid will be here forever, we tried to eradicate it, we failed for many reasons, its time we accept that and learn to live with the virus, and part of that is to stop testing vaccinated players. And yes i understand breakthroughs happen with Delta more often than other variants but again this is just a risk we are all going to have to adapt to and be willing to take at this point. Can anyone think of other ways to control this in the league besides the two options i just came up? If you can please tell me because i have no idea.

Let me end my rant by saying this, im not here to start a fight either, i understand how serious covid can be, its a horrible illness. Im vaxxed up and i made sure my wife who was a little hesitant got vaxxed up. With all of this said we need to really just move on, Covid is here forever and we just need to be taught to live with it unfortunately instead of being taught to hide from it. Hiding from it made a lot of sense pre vaccined, now it does not. Having a vaxxed NFL player missing the first game of the season and having other vaxxed players miss games down the road is not going to help inspire Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen or any unvaccinated players you can think of to get vaccinated. THey are going to say to themselves, "So wait im doing this and i may still miss games? Whats the point?"

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby ArrylT » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:57 am

Patsfan86 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:39 am So what are we gonna do then? Test players for covid forever? Even if you are vaccinated? Covid is with us forever, its endemic, its how itll be. And football may just be unlucky enough to coincide with peak Covid seasonality, we arent 100 percent sure on that yet but it seems that way. I only see two ways out of this situation since i feel a vaccinated player should not miss any games. The player got the vaccine, the player did their part, its time to move on with life and let them play. So its Either not let players be in the league if they arent vaccinated (i dont like this option but if we are going for unrealistic Zero Covid in the NFL i guess this is the way to do it.) or pretty simple, stop testing vaccinated players. Once again Covid will be here forever, we tried to eradicate it, we failed for many reasons, its time we accept that and learn to live with the virus, and part of that is to stop testing vaccinated players. And yes i understand breakthroughs happen with Delta more often than other variants but again this is just a risk we are all going to have to adapt to and be willing to take at this point. Can anyone think of other ways to control this in the league besides the two options i just came up? If you can please tell me because i have no idea.

Let me end my rant by saying this, im not here to start a fight either, i understand how serious covid can be, its a horrible illness. Im vaxxed up and i made sure my wife who was a little hesitant got vaxxed up. With all of this said we need to really just move on, Covid is here forever and we just need to be taught to live with it unfortunately instead of being taught to hide from it. Hiding from it made a lot of sense pre vaccined, now it does not. Having a vaxxed NFL player missing the first game of the season and having other vaxxed players miss games down the road is not going to help inspire Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen or any unvaccinated players you can think of to get vaccinated. THey are going to say to themselves, "So wait im doing this and i may still miss games? Whats the point?"
I think the point is that the player does not live in a bubble all by himself. They did that last year with the NHL & NBA and no one wants to do it again. Therefore if a vaccinated player has covid-19, and it is the delta variant, which is much more transmissible than say the common cold or the flu ...

https://health-desk.org/articles/how-co ... s-diseases

My understanding from this is that the flu is 2x more transmissible than the common cold - and the original covid is 3x more transmissible. Delta variant is 6-9x more transmissible.

So assuming 9 people. And that is an average - not a worst case scenario. So you infect 9 people. Then they infect 9 people each. and they infect 9 each. That is 729 from 1 source within a matter of days. But if a player with covid plays in an NFL game in an NFL stadium where there are 60 00 people .... even if he does not have contact with the majority of them, he may still come into contact with people who do have contact with them. IE spends time with trainers who spend time with equipment people who spend time with delivery people who spend time with security people who spend time with ushers who spend time with fans ...

Covid cases spikes 700% after Sturgis as a good example.

If it was simply the common cold or a mild flu - then different story but it is the combination of increased transmissiblity and severity of the delta variant that comes into play.

(a) Vaccines decrease the length of time the illness can survive in your body
(b) decrease the severity of the illness
(c) decrease the severity of post-illness effects
(d) decrease the odds of infection sticking

Unfortunately, and many people in general (not saying anyone here) do not understand that vaccines do not make you immune from something - no more than a cold pill makes you immune from the next cold.

Just (A) alone is huge. If you go from 10-14 days of being able to transmit a disease to just 48-72 hours - then thats 10-12 days where you are not potentially infecting another person.

However that is still a 2-3 day window where you can be infecting - although if proper protocols are followed that risk is highly muted.

It would be a different story if

(a) everyone wore a mask to an NFL game
or
(b) 95+% of people were vaccinated

But barring that you're either going to need vaccine passports (so you know who is at risk), or these confusing (to the layman) but necessary protocols. Remember even 65% vaccinated means that 20 000 people might be unvaccinated at any NFL Game, and right now the vaccination rate is barely 50%. So thats 30 000 rather than 20 000.

In essence you can boil it down to Cole Beasley is keeping Zach Martin from playing. Because if every Cole Beasley was vaccinated we would not have to worry about the transmission or effects so much. But because they are not - and they can extend the transmission window and the effects/severity of the virus so Zach Martin has to not play so that he does not infect Cole Beasleys who by virtue of not being vaccinated make it much more likely they can be infected & spread that disease. The vaccinated player is being penalized due to the choice of the unvaccinated.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Unvaccinated Player List

Postby murphysxm » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:03 am

ArrylT wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:57 am
In essence you can boil it down to Cole Beasley is keeping Zach Martin from playing. Because if every Cole Beasley was vaccinated we would not have to worry about the transmission or effects so much.
This statement is not wrong
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts


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