COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:25 pm

Ray Finkle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:40 am
wickerkat1212 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:50 am
"However, I have no problem hearing out someone’s opinion on why they aren’t “sold” on the pandemic and don’t believe there is as much risk."

Um, 152,000 deaths in the US alone. 661,000 in the world. Not sold? WOW. bleep that. It's a pandemic. When was the last time you saw our country shut down like this and STILL the death toll rises.
It sounds like you and I are in agreement concerning the pandemic. What I was saying is that if someone wants to state a case that some of the numbers don’t add up and maybe that some of the reporting hasn’t been 100% transparent, I have no problem with their viewpoint. I can’t tell them how to feel and what to think and who to trust. It’s a wild time. Most of us probably have some fluid thoughts and emotions from day to day surrounding all that is going. I know I do. When I watch the news and see the destruction this thing is doing in certain areas of the country, I feel one way. Then when talk to some dudes I know who sit on barstools every day during this pandemic like irresponsible dummy’s (imo) and have every one of them tell me that they have not heard of one single person in the local bar scene who has gotten it or even knows anybody who has, I might feel a little different those days. Not everybody is even the slightest bit worldly and a lot of the population is pigeonholed to their little community where it still doesn’t seem that crazy. For they do not know... What I don’t love is how so many have the “nobody can tell me to wear a mask” or “it’s no different than the flu” with an F that outlook. Likewise, I don’t like to bring that attitude toward someone who may be a little skeptical of some things. Personally, I’ll continue to wear my mask, keep my distance and pray to my God.
I haven't seen good faith skepticism in months. Your premise is fine. We should be able to have a civil and open conversation when somebody expresses genuine skepticism about things like the unknown morbidity of the virus, the plausibility of a vaccine, the damages of lockdown itself, and what this means for life in 2022 and beyond. I absolutely agree, and I've had many of these conversations with friends, family, and colleagues.

The problem is that your premise describes a scenario that basically doesn't exist, especially not here. There's no reasonable skepticism, it's just unwavering cultism. These are people who've irrevocably tied their identity to the current administration, either because of white fragility, resentment of perceived condescension from "coastal elites" (aka doing it to own the libs), or some combination of the two. They don't have reasonable opinions because they've already assumed the same stance as the president; they're just trying to work backward to justify it. That's how you get these people stating their belief in hydroxychloroquine. They haven't entered into the conversation in good faith, but instead are singularly focused on justifying their political affiliation.

Tying it back to fantasy football: you can have a reasonable conversation about whether Mahomes or Jackson is the best dynasty QB. The equivalent of the COVID discourse here is some delusional Patriots/Bucs fan screaming that Tom Brady is the #1 dynasty QB because "COUNT THE RINGS." You can't have a reasonable discussion with those folks because they don't enter the conversation in good faith.
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby murphysxm » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:29 pm

There is really no reasoning with the extremes, on either side to be fair. Herman Cain contracted Covid at the Tulsa convention and tragically died. However, people are denying he died of Covid, rather it was his cancer history. Um, so the fact that a person that was high risk,went to an event maskless, contracted the virus during the incubation period and is now dead is coincidence? I fully believe his cancer history was a factor, but Covid killed him folks.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby wickerkat1212 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:54 pm

Ray Finkle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:40 am
wickerkat1212 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:50 am
"However, I have no problem hearing out someone’s opinion on why they aren’t “sold” on the pandemic and don’t believe there is as much risk."

Um, 152,000 deaths in the US alone. 661,000 in the world. Not sold? WOW. bleep that. It's a pandemic. When was the last time you saw our country shut down like this and STILL the death toll rises.
It sounds like you and I are in agreement concerning the pandemic. What I was saying is that if someone wants to state a case that some of the numbers don’t add up and maybe that some of the reporting hasn’t been 100% transparent, I have no problem with their viewpoint. I can’t tell them how to feel and what to think and who to trust. It’s a wild time. Most of us probably have some fluid thoughts and emotions from day to day surrounding all that is going. I know I do. When I watch the news and see the destruction this thing is doing in certain areas of the country, I feel one way. Then when talk to some dudes I know who sit on barstools every day during this pandemic like irresponsible dummy’s (imo) and have every one of them tell me that they have not heard of one single person in the local bar scene who has gotten it or even knows anybody who has, I might feel a little different those days. Not everybody is even the slightest bit worldly and a lot of the population is pigeonholed to their little community where it still doesn’t seem that crazy. For they do not know... What I don’t love is how so many have the “nobody can tell me to wear a mask” or “it’s no different than the flu” with an F that outlook. Likewise, I don’t like to bring that attitude toward someone who may be a little skeptical of some things. Personally, I’ll continue to wear my mask, keep my distance and pray to my God.
I think we're on the same page here. I've been home for four months. Haven't left the house except to pick up groceries at Target, take a walk with the dog, or pick up a prescription at Walgreens. I tested positive two days ago. My wife and kids tested negative. I don't know how I got it. Grocery delivery? Wife a carrier (she went to three stores one day, with mask). Luckily I'm asymptomatic. Seems to be a mild case. But I don't know what the long-term effects will be.
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RB—EE, Henry, Cohen, Mostert, Evans (R), Coleman, Pollard
WR—MThomas, Diggs, Lamb (R), Lazard, Hardman, Renfrow, Beasley, Claypool
TE—Doyle, Jonnu, Thomas
PK—Zuerlein
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby wickerkat1212 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:55 pm

wickerkat1212 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:54 pm
Ray Finkle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:40 am
wickerkat1212 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:50 am
"However, I have no problem hearing out someone’s opinion on why they aren’t “sold” on the pandemic and don’t believe there is as much risk."

Um, 152,000 deaths in the US alone. 661,000 in the world. Not sold? WOW. bleep that. It's a pandemic. When was the last time you saw our country shut down like this and STILL the death toll rises.
It sounds like you and I are in agreement concerning the pandemic. What I was saying is that if someone wants to state a case that some of the numbers don’t add up and maybe that some of the reporting hasn’t been 100% transparent, I have no problem with their viewpoint. I can’t tell them how to feel and what to think and who to trust. It’s a wild time. Most of us probably have some fluid thoughts and emotions from day to day surrounding all that is going. I know I do. When I watch the news and see the destruction this thing is doing in certain areas of the country, I feel one way. Then when talk to some dudes I know who sit on barstools every day during this pandemic like irresponsible dummy’s (imo) and have every one of them tell me that they have not heard of one single person in the local bar scene who has gotten it or even knows anybody who has, I might feel a little different those days. Not everybody is even the slightest bit worldly and a lot of the population is pigeonholed to their little community where it still doesn’t seem that crazy. For they do not know... What I don’t love is how so many have the “nobody can tell me to wear a mask” or “it’s no different than the flu” with an F that outlook. Likewise, I don’t like to bring that attitude toward someone who may be a little skeptical of some things. Personally, I’ll continue to wear my mask, keep my distance and pray to my God.
I think we're on the same page here. I've been home for four months. Haven't left the house except to pick up groceries at Target, take a walk with the dog, or pick up a prescription at Walgreens. I tested positive two days ago. My wife and kids tested negative. I don't know how I got it. Grocery delivery? Wife a carrier (she went to three stores one day, with mask)? IDK. Luckily I'm asymptomatic. Seems to be a mild case. But I don't know what the long-term effects will be.
D3:
QB—Lamar, Allen, Big Ben, Tyrod
RB—EE, Henry, Cohen, Mostert, Evans (R), Coleman, Pollard
WR—MThomas, Diggs, Lamb (R), Lazard, Hardman, Renfrow, Beasley, Claypool
TE—Doyle, Jonnu, Thomas
PK—Zuerlein
DEF—Ravens

D4:
QB—Watson, Stafford, Tyrod
RB—Conner, David & Duke Johnson, Cohen, Howard, Breida, DWilliams, Edmonds
WR—Hill, Allen, Golladay, Jeudy (R), Jeffery, Jefferson (R), Amendola, Miller, Watson, Dorsett
TE—IThomas, LThomas, DArnold, Kmet, Trautman
PK—Prater
DEF—Bears

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby azthecrow » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm

I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been FDA approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby Ray Finkle » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:58 pm

wickerkat1212 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:54 pm
I think we're on the same page here. I've been home for four months. Haven't left the house except to pick up groceries at Target, take a walk with the dog, or pick up a prescription at Walgreens. I tested positive two days ago. My wife and kids tested negative. I don't know how I got it. Grocery delivery? Wife a carrier (she went to three stores one day, with mask). Luckily I'm asymptomatic. Seems to be a mild case. But I don't know what the long-term effects will be.
Sorry to hear that, sounds like you were being responsible. Hope all goes well. Do you mind me asking why were you tested, being that you’re asymptomatic?

If you are not comfortable answering, feel free to ignore or tell me to go kick rocks.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby millworkguy » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 pm

azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
Yes, it is one drug that us under review, I dont know that I've seen anything from many doctors, but the WHO doesn't think much if it, and the FDA has removed its emergancy use authorization and stated it may do more harm then good, please seek your physician for a case by case recommendation. Time will tell, but If an already common drug had a significant effect in treatment, why has covid spread so much?
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby azthecrow » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm

millworkguy wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
Yes, it is one drug that us under review, I dont know that I've seen anything from many doctors, but the WHO doesn't think much if it, and the FDA has removed its emergancy use authorization and stated it may do more harm then good, please seek your physician for a case by case recommendation. Time will tell, but If an already common drug had a significant effect in treatment, why has covid spread so much?
Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:21 pm

azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm
millworkguy wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
Yes, it is one drug that us under review, I dont know that I've seen anything from many doctors, but the WHO doesn't think much if it, and the FDA has removed its emergancy use authorization and stated it may do more harm then good, please seek your physician for a case by case recommendation. Time will tell, but If an already common drug had a significant effect in treatment, why has covid spread so much?
Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.
The available evidence does not support its use in the treatment of COVID-19 in any capacity. There’s now enough literature to pretty conclusively say that it doesn’t improve morbidity and mortality when given to patients with COVID. We also have not demonstrated benefit as post-exposure prophylaxis.

Now, I’m a physician. So these are opinions that I have because it’s my job to review this evidence and make these decisions. I’m wondering why you seem to have such a favorable opinion of this drug.
azthecrow wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:13 pm
Yes, I do remember that. Right now the polls say Biden will win. Deja vu?
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:03 pm
Drew Brees was asked his opinion and he gave it. He should not have apologized. He is not ignorant, nor is he racist. He does not expect others to fall in line with his opinion unlike the bullies who are attacking him.
As for the team I think (hope) this will all blow over by the time the season starts.
Ah. There it is. It’s wild how predictable these things are.
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby azthecrow » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:27 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:21 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm
millworkguy wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 pm


Yes, it is one drug that us under review, I dont know that I've seen anything from many doctors, but the WHO doesn't think much if it, and the FDA has removed its emergancy use authorization and stated it may do more harm then good, please seek your physician for a case by case recommendation. Time will tell, but If an already common drug had a significant effect in treatment, why has covid spread so much?
Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.
The available evidence does not support its use in the treatment of COVID-19 in any capacity. There’s now enough literature to pretty conclusively say that it doesn’t improve morbidity and mortality when given to patients with COVID. We also have not demonstrated benefit as post-exposure prophylaxis.

Now, I’m a physician. So these are opinions that I have because it’s my job to review this evidence and make these decisions. I’m wondering why you seem to have such a favorable opinion of this drug.
azthecrow wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:13 pm
Yes, I do remember that. Right now the polls say Biden will win. Deja vu?
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:03 pm
Drew Brees was asked his opinion and he gave it. He should not have apologized. He is not ignorant, nor is he racist. He does not expect others to fall in line with his opinion unlike the bullies who are attacking him.
As for the team I think (hope) this will all blow over by the time the season starts.
Ah. There it is. It’s wild how predictable these things are.
Yes, you are wildly transparent in that regard as well.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:17 pm

azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:27 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:21 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm


Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.
The available evidence does not support its use in the treatment of COVID-19 in any capacity. There’s now enough literature to pretty conclusively say that it doesn’t improve morbidity and mortality when given to patients with COVID. We also have not demonstrated benefit as post-exposure prophylaxis.

Now, I’m a physician. So these are opinions that I have because it’s my job to review this evidence and make these decisions. I’m wondering why you seem to have such a favorable opinion of this drug.
azthecrow wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:13 pm
Yes, I do remember that. Right now the polls say Biden will win. Deja vu?
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:03 pm
Drew Brees was asked his opinion and he gave it. He should not have apologized. He is not ignorant, nor is he racist. He does not expect others to fall in line with his opinion unlike the bullies who are attacking him.
As for the team I think (hope) this will all blow over by the time the season starts.
Ah. There it is. It’s wild how predictable these things are.
Yes, you are wildly transparent in that regard as well.
Somebody explain to this guy that transparent and predictable mean different words.

But yes, I’m transparent: I make decisions based on the best available evidence. I will continue to do so. If the evidence changes, I will change my practice.

That’s different from pretending to be a physician when you’re not and offering completely unqualified medical opinions based on the position of the political party that your identity is tied to.
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby millworkguy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:18 am

azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm
millworkguy wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
Yes, it is one drug that us under review, I dont know that I've seen anything from many doctors, but the WHO doesn't think much if it, and the FDA has removed its emergancy use authorization and stated it may do more harm then good, please seek your physician for a case by case recommendation. Time will tell, but If an already common drug had a significant effect in treatment, why has covid spread so much?
Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.
I think that if it worked well, it would be talked about more. 4.6 million Americans teated positive and almost 160,000 dead (26.2% and 23% of the world totals respectively) should have provided a large enough sample size especially as the death rate in America is HIGHER then the world average.
Oh, and the latest video that was liked (and shared by a famous son) was stating it was the Cure.
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby azthecrow » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 am

OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:17 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:27 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:21 pm


The available evidence does not support its use in the treatment of COVID-19 in any capacity. There’s now enough literature to pretty conclusively say that it doesn’t improve morbidity and mortality when given to patients with COVID. We also have not demonstrated benefit as post-exposure prophylaxis.

Now, I’m a physician. So these are opinions that I have because it’s my job to review this evidence and make these decisions. I’m wondering why you seem to have such a favorable opinion of this drug.
Ah. There it is. It’s wild how predictable these things are.
Yes, you are wildly transparent in that regard as well.
Somebody explain to this guy that transparent and predictable mean different words.

But yes, I’m transparent: I make decisions based on the best available evidence. I will continue to do so. If the evidence changes, I will change my practice.

That’s different from pretending to be a physician when you’re not and offering completely unqualified medical opinions based on the position of the political party that your identity is tied to.
I never offered an opinion. I simply made an observation and had some questions. Thank you to you and millworkguy for answering them.

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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby abloom » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:12 am

azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been FDA approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
It's simple. There are conflicting studies. Some show that hydroxychloroquine has no benefit, others show it has some benefit, and others show that it can actually be detrimental. For a brief synopsis with additional links to primary articles feel free to read
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2020388
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Re: COVID. The NON Fantasy football discussion

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:37 am

azthecrow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 am
I never offered an opinion.
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would be against The use of hydroxychloroquine. Many doctors have stated that it has saved lives and it has been approved forever. Seems like it should be looked at positively.
azthecrow wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 pm
Maybe because it has not been prescribed/used enough?
Also, my understanding is that it does not stop the spread but it has been an effective treatment for some patients helping them to recover more quickly.
lol ok.

These are not medical opinions. If your source of information was anything other than your political beliefs, you’d know that they’re wrong. That’s the problem though- you don’t care about expertise. You’re not asking the question/thinking critically about whether you should take medical advice from the FDA and the NEJM or if you should listen to Jared Kushner, you’re just listening to whichever one makes you feel better. This type of thinking is pervasive in this country and it’s directly responsible for the end of American Exceptionalism.

I swear, if Donald Trump Jr. retweeted somebody saying that Ronald Jones was a RB1 this year, you guys would start trading for him.
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