Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:32 am
https://forum.dynastyleaguefootball.com/
https://forum.dynastyleaguefootball.com/viewtopic.php?t=148640
So true and well written. Nice to see someone who actually has a clear understanding of reality regarding the topic. Sorry I wasn't around when this was an active discussion. Although nothing more really needs to be said after this post.Tsunami wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:37 amThat isn't the only time it has happened. It happened with Muhammad. It happened with Buddha. It happened with Zeus and Thor and Jupiter and Shiva. It is happening right now on a smaller scale with Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard. How many of these religions do you think were founded on actual supernatural events? Is there a reason you have faith in the one that you believe other than that you were born to it or into a culture which supports that belief?slacker wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:12 am Nah, It's just that with religious atheism on the rise most people don't know what the evidence is. The cornerstone of Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ did and rose from the dead. If it did not happen, then Christianity is false, but if it did happen then Christianity is true. Even secular historians of the day Josephus and Tacitus testify that Jesus Christ existed and made it to the cross, with Josephus going so far as to say He was seen alive three days later. Something happened that caused the disciples to go from cowering in a room wondering if they would be the next crucified to guys who transformed the world. Something caused the church to come into existence. Something caused Paul, who wrote half the New Testament, to go from persecuting the church to becoming a Christian several years after the resurrection. What really happened? I believe that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only thing that fits the known evidence, but if you guys can tell me what really happened I'll abandon my faith today.
Josephus and Tacitus referred to Jesus as a historical figure some 60-80 years after he supposedly was crucified. There is no eyewitness record or other evidence of the existence of Jesus outside of the Bible (and even the Gospels likely weren't written by eyewitnesses). Scholars believe he probably existed simply because it is the most likely explanation - it is easier for a myth to grow out of a real event than from a work of fiction, although both can certainly happen. Paul Bunyan and John Henry were probably based on real people, and their feats were embellished to become supernatural. There is not enough evidence to even be 100% sure Jesus is a real person, much less to support any of the supernatural events associated with his story, but since his human existence isn't an extraordinary claim it is reasonable to say it is at least plausible. The other parts of Christianity, not so much.
The myth of Jesus has adopted elements of religions that existed before Christianity. The Egyptian god Horus was the son of the god Osiris, was born to a virgin, his birth was celebrated at the winter solstice, he was baptized at age 30, his baptizer was beheaded, he walked on water, he healed the sick and cured the blind, he was crucified and resurrected after 3 days. Similar myths are attributed to Attis of Phyrgia, Zoroaster, and many other pre-Christian deities. While Jesus the man may have existed, it's pretty obvious that these myths that existed before his life were later attributed to him. This is a more likely explanation to a rational person.
Why Jesus specifically? I don't know, anymore than you could tell me why Horus. But it's unlikely that it was because it really happened. Humans are superstitious by nature, and there was no science to explain things otherwise. I love how you say the truth of Christianity depends only on one event that is unfalsifiable, and you ignore the numerous other Biblical claims that were considered to be literal historical events a hundred years ago that are now ignored as parables, like the great flood and young earth creationism. How many times does a religion have to be wrong to cast doubt upon the other parts of the myth?
JFever wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm
What continues to baffle me is the fact that some, that as educated adults were or are gullible enough to get talked into a children's story, and then proceed to view it as fact in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Children are easy to mold and to manipulate. Hence the over the top programs of Sunday school, vacation bible study, retreats, etc. But, to the point and my main issue here, How does one get to the level of confidence in anything without sufficient evidence? In a time and place where it seems to be in vogue to have "our own facts" - it is troubling. In reality, there are not alternative facts. There are just facts. Opinions are not facts. People are free to practice their religion and I believe in that right, however, I don't believe that many religious Americans understand what secularism is. Believe what you like but, just be prepared for rational thinking people to call you out if you are rambling about believing in made up stories. If you hang all of your laundry out to dry, people will likely see your undergarments.
It means that others are sick of your condescending tone. You believe what you want, but keep it respectful.JFever wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:37 am Not sure what that emogie was intended to mean. Did you happen to read the content of the post? Like, specifically the questions?
The thing is, there is something important in there. There really is. People... THERE are NO alternative facts. There just isn't. Imagine where medicine would be if stem cell research wasn't being hindered by religious special interest in our politics... I wonder if people understand what stem cell research could potentially do. I have my doubts. And if 30-50% of tax paying adults in our country think that we came from a mythical Adam / Eve, that there was a gloabal flood, that dinosaurs didn't exist, that the earth is 6000 years old, or that there is a supernatural father figure watching over us, caring about our petty wants and needs, answering prayers, or something of the sort, it actually is a problem. Why is it a problem? Because it isn't real. It isn't testable, it isn't falsifiable. Im sure on our east coast there are very religious people praying that the hurricane misses them or spares them..... Those prayers will likey go unanswered. Is it because "HE" was too busy? Is it a test? Was it or is it part of a mysterious master plan that we can not begin to understand? Please... I simply ask for some type of proof. The burden of proof lies with the party that makes the confident claim, not the skeptic. If you are so sure, you must provide an explanation as to how and why you are right and the thousands of other religions are incorrect. It is simply, that simple. The eye roll thingy is kinda like you listen but don't hear, look but don't see. It's kinda like a kid that is hearing something they don't want to hear so they jam their little fingers into their ears and say blah blah blah so they don't have to hear what Mom is saying. It troubles me. It troubles me to a great extent.