Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:32 am

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:24 am

I wonder how educated Drake is? In all honesty? The more educated one gets, particularly in the fields of Science, the less this whole magical world view of a creator god that made the entire universe holds any merit. There is a reason that around 90% of highly educated, highly acclaimed, active scientists in Biology, Cosmology, etc are more atheist than they are of any particular religion. I mean this magical MAN (not woman) in the sky governs the physical laws of nature, cares about what you eat, who you have sex with, is responsible for millions of innocent deaths by natural disaster and disease, and the answer-er of personal prayers if and when HE wants... I mean cant you see the cartoonish view I'm speaking of? All things considered, I feel it is a travesty. Like, believing in something / anything on faith rather than evidence, heck - in spite of evidence - seems to me a major flaw of the human mind. I get that it is a nice "feel good" story. But, believing in something because it makes you feel good does not give it credibility. Simple as that. Even if Drake raps about it.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

Feast of the Ascension today !
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Fri May 11, 2018 9:22 am

Serious question. Blackout, do you know the difference between the terms: gullible and faith? They are more similar than most understand.

Also of interest. Most "Christian holidays" are arbitrary days that were celebrated earlier by Pagans and the days themselves have celestial origins and meanings. Some Christian holidays are days that an authority figure organized and facilitated to create a coming together of a populace - which established an easier to control population of mindlessness. Group think.

It is sadness and subtle frustration that I feel on an all to often basis - that otherwise intelligent adult human beings that are kind, and otherwise knowledgeable, don't understand that they themselves have been and continue to choose to be mislead and lied to. All this while the information and evidence that quite literally PROVES the fallibility of their belief, is easily acquired if they had the gumption and the courage to look into it and simply use their critical thinking faculties.

Many children believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Most eventually figure it out.
Truth is found through Evidence.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Sat May 12, 2018 8:03 am

JFever : Look a this movie named "Come Sunday". It talked to me a lot. I more and more believe in the Christ history but not in some restrictions and opposite interpretations of the Bible except some sentences that make an echo in me. Like i said before, i accept homosexuality, i'm ironic on religion...Too much things you could not do day after day.

Here are some of the prohibitions Jehovah's Witnesses impose on their followers

- Forbidden to have sex without being married (fornication). 1
- Forbidden to indulge in oral sex (oral copulation). 2
- Forbidden to indulge in bleep sex (bleep copulation). 2 and 3
- Forbidden to have sex with a person of the same sex (homosexuality). 4
- Forbidden to marry a person who is not a Jehovah's Witness ("non-believer"). 5
- Forbidden to divorce and remarry. (Can divorce and remarry only if the other spouse commits fornication). 6
- Forbidden to have an abortion or use the morning after pill. 7
- Forbidden to masturbate. 8
- Forbidden to become transgender or transsexual. 9
- Women must submit almost completely to their husbands. 10
- Forbidden to believe and promote Darwin's theory of evolution.
- Prohibited from believing and promoting a doctrine other than that taught by the sect and prohibiting the challenge (apostasy). 12
- Forbidden to go to another religion or sect. 13
- Prohibited from challenging the rules of the sect and its organization or representatives.14
- Forbidden to listen to certain kinds of music, movies, TV shows, to read certain books, to play certain games, video games or to go to certain websites.15
- Forbidden to actively attend to non-Jehovah's Witnesses.16
- Prohibited from participating in sports competitions (not sports as such). 17
- Prohibited from voting voluntarily and freely in elections.18
- Forbidden to engage in politics.18
- Forbidden to play the lottery. 19
- Forbidden to celebrate Halloween, Christmas, New Year's Day, birthdays, mothers 'or fathers' day, national holidays, Easter, etc. 20
- Forbidden to receive blood transfusions, even if life is at stake. Prohibited from eating blood or food containing blood. 21
- In the past: banned organ vaccines and transplants. 22
- In the past: almost forbidden to do post-secondary studies at Cegep or University. This, however, remains strongly discouraged. 23
- Prohibited women from wearing necklines, vests that would show the navel, skirts that do not go down below the knees in all circumstances. 24
- Forbidden to wear extremely tight pants. 25
- Forbidden to wear floating clothes, too big. 26
- Prohibits women from having special privileges in the congregation as "old" or "ministerial assistant" or others. 10
- Prohibits women from teaching doctrine to men unless there are exceptional circumstances and they should wear a hat as a sign of submission. 10
- Forbidden to practice martial arts. 27
- Forbidden to "toast" or "raise his glass" or "toast". 28
- Tattooing is strongly discouraged. 29
- The piercing is strongly discouraged. 30


Of course many things are good to follow but I can't afford to go on a straight line and not been able to have some pleasures of life. 1, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 27, 28 for me it's not possible to submit to that. Maybe the abortion is the best thing i retain here. Everybody should have the right to live.

I do think Heaven is for everybody and the Hell doesn't exist except on Earth and in hearts of supposed humans. it's just some sins that God will forgive. Some people who had their child or friend raped or killed manage to forgive to the criminal of the sin. So if they can, God probably could. In dying on the cross, he washed away the sins of all by his blood. Some believers wants to make you guilty in your faith. "Do that it's great", "Don't do that it's bad", "You won't go to Heaven if you're not a believer' but "you will go in Hell if you don't like him". In few words, i do believe in God and i'm proach of him for the life he had and this faith helped me. I admit that i judged for a longtime that religion was a way to avoid being weak for people feeling not strong. That's what i've done too. But now i'm strong. Should i give up my faith in God so far ? No. He's in my heart. But i don't need to be in a community to prove my redemption by praying in a church etc...My changing life is the better gift and the better way showing God, i heard him, i understood him. In that, God could be proud of me. The more you suffer on Earth, the more you battle to change and grow and being happy, the more God loves you, i'm totally sure about that.

Anyway God would never reject people that don't believe in him. He loves everybody. Even you JFever ;)

But i let down the Bible most of time, too much confusions, opposite feelings and it's a sacred book wrote by men, only men like you and me. And religion has created the main wars in the world because each religion wants to be the only religion, the best one. Too much people killed for Jesus a man like you and me but with a big heart who doesn't deserve that, his name and who he has been, are used for crimes. For me the truth and the elevation of the soul is inside of each of us.

God is proud of the humanity that is not necessarly believer but live in love and no hate. God helped me to go from hate to love. Bu i'm an epicurean believer. And i don't want to feel guilty for what i do every day. So no JFever, gullible i'm not if it what you meant :)

BTW, in Europe catholic countries (France so) and US i read, they wanted to change the Feast of Ascension who is always a Thursday (40 days after Easter) to the Sunday ! Just to say at which point religion won't never be a defined state.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Thu May 24, 2018 11:23 am

JFever :" Look a this movie named "Come Sunday". It talked to me a lot. I more and more believe in the Christ history but not in some restrictions and opposite interpretations of the Bible except some sentences that make an echo in me. Like i said before, i accept homosexuality, i'm ironic on religion...Too much things you could not do day after day."

So, you cherry pick. I totally get your rationale. It isn't unique. Matter of fact, it is exceptionally typical of most western people that lean toward the religious right. This is typical of most self proclaimed religious folk. It's the hypocrisy that gets swept under the rug. Many "believe" because they like the idea of believing. Its comforting to imagine a caring fatherly figure in the sky that cares about us, watches over us, etc. Not because of any compelling measurable or testable observations or evidence. That is my whole argument. It is an ancient children's story that gets mindlessly propagated generation to generation despite massive amounts of observable and testable evidence to it's contrary. To me - it is sad.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Tue May 29, 2018 1:34 pm

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby SanDiegoGuy » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:45 am

Tsunami wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:37 am
slacker wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:12 am
Nah, It's just that with religious atheism on the rise most people don't know what the evidence is. The cornerstone of Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ did and rose from the dead. If it did not happen, then Christianity is false, but if it did happen then Christianity is true. Even secular historians of the day Josephus and Tacitus testify that Jesus Christ existed and made it to the cross, with Josephus going so far as to say He was seen alive three days later. Something happened that caused the disciples to go from cowering in a room wondering if they would be the next crucified to guys who transformed the world. Something caused the church to come into existence. Something caused Paul, who wrote half the New Testament, to go from persecuting the church to becoming a Christian several years after the resurrection. What really happened? I believe that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only thing that fits the known evidence, but if you guys can tell me what really happened I'll abandon my faith today. :-)
That isn't the only time it has happened. It happened with Muhammad. It happened with Buddha. It happened with Zeus and Thor and Jupiter and Shiva. It is happening right now on a smaller scale with Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard. How many of these religions do you think were founded on actual supernatural events? Is there a reason you have faith in the one that you believe other than that you were born to it or into a culture which supports that belief?

Josephus and Tacitus referred to Jesus as a historical figure some 60-80 years after he supposedly was crucified. There is no eyewitness record or other evidence of the existence of Jesus outside of the Bible (and even the Gospels likely weren't written by eyewitnesses). Scholars believe he probably existed simply because it is the most likely explanation - it is easier for a myth to grow out of a real event than from a work of fiction, although both can certainly happen. Paul Bunyan and John Henry were probably based on real people, and their feats were embellished to become supernatural. There is not enough evidence to even be 100% sure Jesus is a real person, much less to support any of the supernatural events associated with his story, but since his human existence isn't an extraordinary claim it is reasonable to say it is at least plausible. The other parts of Christianity, not so much.

The myth of Jesus has adopted elements of religions that existed before Christianity. The Egyptian god Horus was the son of the god Osiris, was born to a virgin, his birth was celebrated at the winter solstice, he was baptized at age 30, his baptizer was beheaded, he walked on water, he healed the sick and cured the blind, he was crucified and resurrected after 3 days. Similar myths are attributed to Attis of Phyrgia, Zoroaster, and many other pre-Christian deities. While Jesus the man may have existed, it's pretty obvious that these myths that existed before his life were later attributed to him. This is a more likely explanation to a rational person.

Why Jesus specifically? I don't know, anymore than you could tell me why Horus. But it's unlikely that it was because it really happened. Humans are superstitious by nature, and there was no science to explain things otherwise. I love how you say the truth of Christianity depends only on one event that is unfalsifiable, and you ignore the numerous other Biblical claims that were considered to be literal historical events a hundred years ago that are now ignored as parables, like the great flood and young earth creationism. How many times does a religion have to be wrong to cast doubt upon the other parts of the myth?
So true and well written. Nice to see someone who actually has a clear understanding of reality regarding the topic. Sorry I wasn't around when this was an active discussion. Although nothing more really needs to be said after this post.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby azthecrow » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:58 am

You work hard at rejecting God. That’s not good. If he is so insignificant and untrue why pay so much attention and put so much effort in to disprove him?
Jesus Christ is God. For eternity...

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm

:doh: :pray:

What continues to baffle me is the fact that some, that as educated adults were or are gullible enough to get talked into a children's story, and then proceed to view it as fact in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Children are easy to mold and to manipulate. Hence the over the top programs of Sunday school, vacation bible study, retreats, etc. But, to the point and my main issue here, How does one get to the level of confidence in anything without sufficient evidence? In a time and place where it seems to be in vogue to have "our own facts" - it is troubling. In reality, there are not alternative facts. There are just facts. Opinions are not facts. People are free to practice their religion and I believe in that right, however, I don't believe that many religious Americans understand what secularism is. Believe what you like but, just be prepared for rational thinking people to call you out if you are rambling about believing in made up stories. If you hang all of your laundry out to dry, people will likely see your undergarments. :nono:
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dlf_jaronf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:46 am

JFever wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm
:doh: :pray:

What continues to baffle me is the fact that some, that as educated adults were or are gullible enough to get talked into a children's story, and then proceed to view it as fact in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Children are easy to mold and to manipulate. Hence the over the top programs of Sunday school, vacation bible study, retreats, etc. But, to the point and my main issue here, How does one get to the level of confidence in anything without sufficient evidence? In a time and place where it seems to be in vogue to have "our own facts" - it is troubling. In reality, there are not alternative facts. There are just facts. Opinions are not facts. People are free to practice their religion and I believe in that right, however, I don't believe that many religious Americans understand what secularism is. Believe what you like but, just be prepared for rational thinking people to call you out if you are rambling about believing in made up stories. If you hang all of your laundry out to dry, people will likely see your undergarments. :nono:
:roll:

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:37 am

Not sure what that emogie was intended to mean. Did you happen to read the content of the post? Like, specifically the questions?

The thing is, there is something important in there. There really is. People... THERE are NO alternative facts. There just isn't. Imagine where medicine would be if stem cell research wasn't being hindered by religious special interest in our politics... I wonder if people understand what stem cell research could potentially do. I have my doubts. And if 30-50% of tax paying adults in our country think that we came from a mythical Adam / Eve, that there was a gloabal flood, that dinosaurs didn't exist, that the earth is 6000 years old, or that there is a supernatural father figure watching over us, caring about our petty wants and needs, answering prayers, or something of the sort, it actually is a problem. Why is it a problem? Because it isn't real. It isn't testable, it isn't falsifiable. Im sure on our east coast there are very religious people praying that the hurricane misses them or spares them..... Those prayers will likey go unanswered. Is it because "HE" was too busy? Is it a test? Was it or is it part of a mysterious master plan that we can not begin to understand? Please... I simply ask for some type of proof. The burden of proof lies with the party that makes the confident claim, not the skeptic. If you are so sure, you must provide an explanation as to how and why you are right and the thousands of other religions are incorrect. It is simply, that simple. The eye roll thingy is kinda like you listen but don't hear, look but don't see. It's kinda like a kid that is hearing something they don't want to hear so they jam their little fingers into their ears and say blah blah blah so they don't have to hear what Mom is saying. It troubles me. It troubles me to a great extent.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dlf_jaronf » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:06 am

JFever wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:37 am
Not sure what that emogie was intended to mean. Did you happen to read the content of the post? Like, specifically the questions?

The thing is, there is something important in there. There really is. People... THERE are NO alternative facts. There just isn't. Imagine where medicine would be if stem cell research wasn't being hindered by religious special interest in our politics... I wonder if people understand what stem cell research could potentially do. I have my doubts. And if 30-50% of tax paying adults in our country think that we came from a mythical Adam / Eve, that there was a gloabal flood, that dinosaurs didn't exist, that the earth is 6000 years old, or that there is a supernatural father figure watching over us, caring about our petty wants and needs, answering prayers, or something of the sort, it actually is a problem. Why is it a problem? Because it isn't real. It isn't testable, it isn't falsifiable. Im sure on our east coast there are very religious people praying that the hurricane misses them or spares them..... Those prayers will likey go unanswered. Is it because "HE" was too busy? Is it a test? Was it or is it part of a mysterious master plan that we can not begin to understand? Please... I simply ask for some type of proof. The burden of proof lies with the party that makes the confident claim, not the skeptic. If you are so sure, you must provide an explanation as to how and why you are right and the thousands of other religions are incorrect. It is simply, that simple. The eye roll thingy is kinda like you listen but don't hear, look but don't see. It's kinda like a kid that is hearing something they don't want to hear so they jam their little fingers into their ears and say blah blah blah so they don't have to hear what Mom is saying. It troubles me. It troubles me to a great extent.
It means that others are sick of your condescending tone. You believe what you want, but keep it respectful.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dynastyninja » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:09 am

J, man, chill lol. He posts an emoji and you respond with another essay. It's been the same discussion for 15 pages now. No one is changing their views.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:46 am

Does anyone watch Lucifer?
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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