Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

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azthecrow
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby azthecrow » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:02 am

dlf_jaronf wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:59 am
DD, "undeserved crap"? Feeling like we have to defend our belief system, and now our parenting styles, is causing undue stress on "the messenger"... So people can just say whatever they want about others and they're just being "the messenger", and those they're targeting should just accept it? We are told we're brainwashing our children, and that perspective is correct so we should just take it? :roll:

JF, do YOU know how I'm teaching my kids? Even if we don't go with the obvious negative connotations that are connected with the term "brainwashing", if you use a "nicer" term like "indoctrinating" that is still making a lot of assumptions about how I'm teaching my kids. "Brainwashing" not meant to be offensive? Well, if you don't mean for it to be but it's clearly rubbing people the wrong way, how about you stop using it as opposed to (yet again) explaining how it's not intended to be offensive? Simple solution.

Guys, this is beyond whether you believe in God. This is being respectful of others, whether your beliefs align with theirs or not. Enough.
Amen, Jaron :clap:

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:38 pm

this discussion still sucks

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dlf_jaronf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:39 pm

dynastyninja wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:38 pm
this discussion still sucks
lol I agree, it's really going nowhere isn't it?

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:41 pm

Sorry I ruffled feathers. I can refrain from using the phrases and verbage that's offending you out of respect. I really don't mean to fight about this. Rather to simply have a discussion rooted in intellectual integrity. This discussion is in the "off topic" forum titled; "Did Jesus Christ die and rise from the dead". Of which, I didnt start. I just happen to have a strong interest in studying the history of theology and the real history of the Christian faith. When people that believe, click on this thread, then see and continue to read some view points that don't align, and infact put into question the premise of parts of this belief (per the title of the thread), why so sensitive? I'm not insulting you personally, I'm not calling names, I'm not calling you ugly. Heck, I don't even know you nor do you know me on a personal, close level. I'm simply questioning a 1st century faith in the modern era. Im calling out the issues as they are. I'm skeptical and welcome you to provide evidence for your side. Evidence other than personal revelation or the bible. I haven't found anything compelling in 10-12 years of looking. And, I've been looking. How it you are as confident in "your" particular faith over any / all others?
There must be a good reason.

I feel like we are having minor break downs of civil society each time we have the strong arm of censorship come in and prevent the discussion of fact. The truth, and reality, do matter. We have to be able to talk about facts without at every turn, those that disagree, refer to their opposition as evil. I'm really not the bad guy some of you think I am. Believe it or not.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby dlf_jaronf » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:32 am

I don't think you're a bad guy, and I doubt anyone else believes that either. I'm just saying that if you're using terms that do ruffle feathers, rather than continue to use them and apologize afterward it might be best to just not use them anymore.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:01 am

Do we need to count points ? :D

I don't think and see anyone bad here as well, guys. Better to communicate than hide and think behind.

And now maybe we should make a 24-team dynasty league with 4 Christians, 4 Protestants, 4 Atheists, 4 Muslims, 4 Jews and 4 Buddhists, it could be really fun ! What do you think about ? :P
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Goddard » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:41 am

Blackout wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:01 am
Do we need to count points ? :D

I don't think and see anyone bad here as well, guys. Better to communicate than hide and think behind.

And now maybe we should make a 24-team dynasty league with 4 Christians, 4 Protestants, 4 Atheists, 4 Muslims, 4 Jews and 4 Buddhists, it could be really fun ! What do you think about ? :P
Put up a poll.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:04 am

That idea Blackout, sounds like one of those jokes where 2 priests, 2 rabbi's, 2 Hindus and 2 atheists walk into a bar... lol. Nice idea for the league thing. It'd be fun and I'd be more than willing to represent the atheist view point. (shocker :wtf: )
dlf_jaronf wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:32 am
I don't think you're a bad guy, and I doubt anyone else believes that either. I'm just saying that if you're using terms that do ruffle feathers, rather than continue to use them and apologize afterward it might be best to just not use them anymore.
Fair. I'll take that into consideration Jaron. I'll add that it may be an idea that we as a society take a look at why we are so sensitive when our reasons for belief get questioned as well. As in, why do we take things personal when we discuss politics or religion - but not as much with what type of car (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Jeep, etc), Farm equipment ( John Deere or International) - what type of food is our favorite, what type of music do we choose to listen to or prefer. These are all choices that have some type of rational explanation. Just as your choice of political affiliation and your conscious choice of the religion - you choose to align with.

I won't use the terms that upset you anymore, but, I'm sure you can see my point in a way. If I spend a great deal of time, day in and day out, and I also take a single day of the week to especially focus on telling my son, starting at a very young age, that Jeeps are awesome all around and especially because of their quadra track 4 wheel drive system, that Italian is OUR favorite food, and we are conservative liberals that listen to classic rock and like John Deere farm equipment and I tell him subtle versions of this each day for say 10-15 years. I think it's likely that my kid ends up probably not liking Chevy, red tractors, country / rap music, and he prob has a sub-conscious taste or affinity for lasagna and pasta by the time he is 21 or so.

In my reality and in my own personal world, I'm happily married to my best friend in the whole world and we are raising 3 teenage children. All, up to this point have been successful in academics, athletics, and in their social circles. My approach - I explain to my son or daughters, that the Jeep (used to drive a Grand Cherokee, but now I drive a Chevy pickup) I've been driving is one of many vehicles I could have chosen, but, I chose that one because of XYZ compared to the EFG that the other options offered at the time. I tell him today we are eating pasta, but, tomorrow, we'll try some Mexican food, and perhaps the next day, some fried chicken and home made bread w/ mashed potatoes, I listen to Sublime, The Doors, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Beastie Boys, Alabama, Garth Brooks, Mozart, Chopin, Biggy Smalls, Beethoven, Kiss, Def Leopard, AC/DC, Snoop, Dre, and the Lumineers. I vote for some Democrats and some Republicans depending on their stances on topics important to me --- and I explain to him to think for himself, on topics that are proposed. Ask yourself; is what you are hearing logical, is it reasonable, and what is the angle of the delivery? Does what you are being proposed hold water and is it supported by modern day evidence? I teach them to think critically and for themselves. I teach them about the history of politics & religion. I teach them and have frequent conversations with them about the Muslim religions of Islam, the Hindu religions, the Buddhism belief systems, the origin of Christianity from the Jewish origins, etc. I teach them Why there is such a thing and why and how human society has benefited from Religion bringing people together and how certain branches of Religion have been consolidated in order to make it easier for governments to control behavior and stay in power.

Hope perhaps this helps to clear up some confusions.
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* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby azthecrow » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:56 pm

I teach my kids what is right and what is wrong.
I also like a wide variety of music and foods :D

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:28 pm

I think you missed my point.
Truth is found through Evidence.

Science is the poetry of reality.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby GridironGuerilla » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:11 pm

Is this discussion really happening on a FF forum? No wonder I don't visit way down here often. I wonder just how many opinions have changed and minds have been enlightened by threads like this. :think:

I'd venture to guess absolutely zero. Pointless.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:09 pm

It's an off topic thread. Meaning this discussion is exactly where it needs to be. I also firmly believe that if anyone reading this from the beginning and they are actually intellectually honest with themselves, that at minimum, this thread would have provoked some thought. It isn't about changing minds. Rather it's about provoking intraspective critical thinking. Not sure what was meant by the comments regarding this thread and it's usefullness toward changing ones mind. Why take the time to include that? Must be bored?
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby Blackout » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:24 pm

Do not see an invitation to call me "Christ" but actually i'm on my last 33 years old days...33 you know what i mean ? I'm in a "own sacrifice" period. And it's not even a coincidence. I take on me the suffering of many things and lives. My soul is still rising and evolving but that's really a big price to pay. Loving and leaving cause it was not like you wanted. I "need" this resurrection for my good and the good of mine. I don't want to be loved by many but just trusted that i'm here for playing my role on Earth. I still learn near Jésus. Long is the road to the inside peace. But as long i'm in harmony with myself, i won't judge me anymore.

Definitely an off-topic thread. No doubt.
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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby JFever » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:56 pm

Thanks for sharing. That was pleasent.

Not sure taking quotes from a book written 2 thousand years ago by people with the knowledge and mind set of people from 2 thousand years ago, translated from Hebrew to Greek,yogurt to old English, to modern English, goes anywhere to prove anything. I'll grant that some of the writting (if we cherry pick) is beautiful and inspiring. However, It goes no where to prove truth. Is some beautifully written? Yes. It is good litterature. Be it that, it isn't history, cosmology, astronomy, or biology, genetics. Simple. It has value. Just not the value some are sucked into thinking it does.

I believe some Christians view their beliefs have changed their lives. I just don't believe that what they believe is true. I believe that reason can change lives in a way that faith never could. I think that it is a duty to purge ignorance from society. Our survival as a species is based on our ability to do this. Weather predictions, the written word, cell phones, lap tops, clean water, medicine, all come from purging ignorance. Not - faith in a deity of any kind. Quote all the scripture you would like, but, just know, it takes little time for one to find quotes supporting slavery, brutality, anti gay, and sexist anti female material. Look up Exudus 35:2. Then just think about it.... The whale, the flood, the rising from the dead, people into pilars of salt.... Not to mention the loads of ignorant explanations to the origin of time and space, the universe, etc. Ask yourself, can you distinguish faith from gullibility?

Reasonable, critical thinking is the future. Ignorance and irrationality is the ticket to problems.
In my world view; Reason, IS a moral obligation. Even if it is shared on an off topic forum of my favorite dynasty football site.
Truth is found through Evidence.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

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Re: Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

Postby azthecrow » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:53 am

JFever wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:56 pm
Thanks for sharing. That was pleasent.

Not sure taking quotes from a book written 2 thousand years ago by people with the knowledge and mind set of people from 2 thousand years ago, translated from Hebrew to Greek,yogurt to old English, to modern English, goes anywhere to prove anything. I'll grant that some of the writting (if we cherry pick) is beautiful and inspiring. However, It goes no where to prove truth. Is some beautifully written? Yes. It is good litterature. Be it that, it isn't history, cosmology, astronomy, or biology, genetics. Simple. It has value. Just not the value some are sucked into thinking it does.

I believe some Christians view their beliefs have changed their lives. I just don't believe that what they believe is true. I believe that reason can change lives in a way that faith never could. I think that it is a duty to purge ignorance from society. Our survival as a species is based on our ability to do this. Weather predictions, the written word, cell phones, lap tops, clean water, medicine, all come from purging ignorance. Not - faith in a deity of any kind. Quote all the scripture you would like, but, just know, it takes little time for one to find quotes supporting slavery, brutality, anti gay, and sexist anti female material. Look up Exudus 35:2. Then just think about it.... The whale, the flood, the rising from the dead, people into pilars of salt.... Not to mention the loads of ignorant explanations to the origin of time and space, the universe, etc. Ask yourself, can you distinguish faith from gullibility?

Reasonable, critical thinking is the future. Ignorance and irrationality is the ticket to problems.
In my world view; Reason, IS a moral obligation. Even if it is shared on an off topic forum of my favorite dynasty football site.
yogurt?


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