2 Specific questions for a Startup

Given the increase in popularity for SF and 2QB leagues, this forum is intended for topics relating to these formats.
colt77
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2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby colt77 » Thu May 13, 2021 12:25 pm

Myself and some of my home league peers are making a new dynasty league that'll be SF, Te premium. Our first league is only 1 qb so its pretty vanilla. As one of the commissioners i've been thinking about how to do scoring and 2 things came up for question. The first, is should we do the scoring where RBs and WRs only get 0.5 after catching the ball and then TEs get a fulll point, or do PPR with TEs getting 1.5. They basically achieve the same thing, but I'm not sure what to do there.
As for the 2nd question, should we do 4pt TD passing or 6pt? I haven't found a definitive answer from my research. To me it seems it just makes rushing QBs less amazing over pocket passers right? Anyways, thanks in advance for helping me out. I'm very excited to get into SF leagues as they are the future and most dynasty content creators tailor their videos to that anyway.
12 Man SF 2point TE Premium PPR 6pt passing Tds - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 3 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, SF, K, D
Qbs: Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence
Rbs: Barkley, Breece Hall, Javonte Williams, Swift, Jamaal Williams
Wrs: Deebo Samuel, Olave, Diontae Johnson, Odell, Bateman, Nico Collins
TEs: Kyle Pitts, Higbee, Kittle, Okonkwo
K: Gay
D: -Steelers

12 Man 1 QB PPR - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 2 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, K, D 2021 -Picks- 1.04, 1.11, 1.12, 3.01, 3.04
Qbs: Lamar Jackson, Hurts, Tua
Rbs: Barkley, Swift, Akers, Gus Edwards, Henderson, Lindsey, Rhamondre Stevenson
Wrs: Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, AJ Brown, Bateman, Odell Beckham, Tee Higgins, Cooper Kupp, Nico Collins
TEs: Kittle, Pitts, Jacob Harris
K: Butker

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby Ruggenater » Thu May 13, 2021 12:43 pm

The short answer is to create a league (which you can later delete) and look at how the 2020 season results played out by position and across positions for each scoring option you’re considering. Then pick the combination that you like best.
12 Team Superflex - PPR, 0.25 PPC - QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex/Superflex
QB: L Jackson, Tagovailoa, Rodgers, Pickett, Tannehill
RB: Swift, Pacheco, Sanders, Hubbard, Spears, Dillon, Herbert, McLaughlin, Chandler, Dowdle
WR: DeVonta, Waddle, Aiyuk, Nacua, McLaurin, Hopkins, M Williams, Mingo, Wan’Dale, Hyatt
TE: Kelce, Okonkwo, Schoonmaker

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby colt77 » Thu May 13, 2021 2:50 pm

Ruggenater wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 12:43 pm The short answer is to create a league (which you can later delete) and look at how the 2020 season results played out by position and across positions for each scoring option you’re considering. Then pick the combination that you like best.
I just want to get a general consensus on it outside of the people in my league. Then bring it to them with a more educated opinion after talking to other dynasty nerds. What does your league personally do?
12 Man SF 2point TE Premium PPR 6pt passing Tds - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 3 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, SF, K, D
Qbs: Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence
Rbs: Barkley, Breece Hall, Javonte Williams, Swift, Jamaal Williams
Wrs: Deebo Samuel, Olave, Diontae Johnson, Odell, Bateman, Nico Collins
TEs: Kyle Pitts, Higbee, Kittle, Okonkwo
K: Gay
D: -Steelers

12 Man 1 QB PPR - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 2 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, K, D 2021 -Picks- 1.04, 1.11, 1.12, 3.01, 3.04
Qbs: Lamar Jackson, Hurts, Tua
Rbs: Barkley, Swift, Akers, Gus Edwards, Henderson, Lindsey, Rhamondre Stevenson
Wrs: Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, AJ Brown, Bateman, Odell Beckham, Tee Higgins, Cooper Kupp, Nico Collins
TEs: Kittle, Pitts, Jacob Harris
K: Butker

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby _yeti » Thu May 13, 2021 2:59 pm

We started a similar TE premium home league, only it is 1QB. I also play superflex TE premium.

My home league is 6 point passing TDs, 1PPR and 2 PPR for TEs. Half a point gives them a little boost but they will still be second class citizens. 2PPR really elevates the really good ones to be on par with good receivers and there is a big dropoff to give them value for their scarcity.

2020 TE 2PPR (start 1-3)
TE1 (Kelce) 416 points
TE2 (Waller) 348
TE3-TE16 233-178
TE17-21 162-126
TE22-36 122-92

2020 WR 1PPR (start 2-5)
WR1 Adams 340
WR2 Hill 326
WR3 Diggs 314
WR4-WR22 276-205
WR23-36 196-164
WR37-WR50 162-135

2019 TE1-TE12 = 416 points to 188 points (TE2 and TE3 were 302 and 287)
2019 WR1-WR12= 364 points to 228 points

If you do .5 and 1 for TEs, or 1 and 1.5 it doesn't matter because they are proportionately the same. I prefer 6 point QB TDs because they are the most important player on the field and should be valued as such, Superflex addresses that with scarcity so I am fine with 4 point passing TDs there.

*both years TE1 was Kelce as an outlier and a ton of points for being head and shoulders over his position group. Remove him and it put the rest of the elite TEs in line with the elite WRs. If you only do .5 to 1 or 1 to 1.5 ratio, the TE premium helps the position a little but RB and WR will always score more than them. Matter of preference I suppose
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)

12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby _yeti » Thu May 13, 2021 3:15 pm

Additionally my sig league does half point TE premium. It is kind of not noticeable compared to the vanilla 1PPR league I am in. Comes down to preference, 2PPR you WILL notice the TE premium and it will affect roster building and trades. With a .5 point bump to TEs it will be much less noticeable, which some people want. Good luck!
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)

12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby colt77 » Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm

_yeti wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 2:59 pm We started a similar TE premium home league, only it is 1QB. I also play superflex TE premium.

My home league is 6 point passing TDs, 1PPR and 2 PPR for TEs. Half a point gives them a little boost but they will still be second class citizens. 2PPR really elevates the really good ones to be on par with good receivers and there is a big dropoff to give them value for their scarcity.

2020 TE 2PPR (start 1-3)
TE1 (Kelce) 416 points
TE2 (Waller) 348
TE3-TE16 233-178
TE17-21 162-126
TE22-36 122-92

2020 WR 1PPR (start 2-5)
WR1 Adams 340
WR2 Hill 326
WR3 Diggs 314
WR4-WR22 276-205
WR23-36 196-164
WR37-WR50 162-135

2019 TE1-TE12 = 416 points to 188 points (TE2 and TE3 were 302 and 287)
2019 WR1-WR12= 364 points to 228 points

If you do .5 and 1 for TEs, or 1 and 1.5 it doesn't matter because they are proportionately the same. I prefer 6 point QB TDs because they are the most important player on the field and should be valued as such, Superflex addresses that with scarcity so I am fine with 4 point passing TDs there.

*both years TE1 was Kelce as an outlier and a ton of points for being head and shoulders over his position group. Remove him and it put the rest of the elite TEs in line with the elite WRs. If you only do .5 to 1 or 1 to 1.5 ratio, the TE premium helps the position a little but RB and WR will always score more than them. Matter of preference I suppose
This is some great insight thank you! I'm using your data to help argue for 2 ppr for TEs. Think it makes sense ignoring Kelce as an outlier and seeing how much it balances things. I'm still stuck on 4pt or 6pt though. I can see both sides, personally I lean 6pt rn, but my other 2 commissioners might be leaning 4pt.
12 Man SF 2point TE Premium PPR 6pt passing Tds - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 3 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, SF, K, D
Qbs: Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence
Rbs: Barkley, Breece Hall, Javonte Williams, Swift, Jamaal Williams
Wrs: Deebo Samuel, Olave, Diontae Johnson, Odell, Bateman, Nico Collins
TEs: Kyle Pitts, Higbee, Kittle, Okonkwo
K: Gay
D: -Steelers

12 Man 1 QB PPR - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 2 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, K, D 2021 -Picks- 1.04, 1.11, 1.12, 3.01, 3.04
Qbs: Lamar Jackson, Hurts, Tua
Rbs: Barkley, Swift, Akers, Gus Edwards, Henderson, Lindsey, Rhamondre Stevenson
Wrs: Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, AJ Brown, Bateman, Odell Beckham, Tee Higgins, Cooper Kupp, Nico Collins
TEs: Kittle, Pitts, Jacob Harris
K: Butker

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby jordanzs » Thu May 13, 2021 7:21 pm

If superflex TE premium:

1ppr/1.5ppr for TEs otherwise those positions are lame versus QBs.

4 points for passing TDs, 6 points for rushing TDs.

We're in 1 right now with those specs. We also give -2 per interception.

With all that being said, QBs are strong enough to have lots of value but not overly strong. You don't want a league where any team without 2 good QBs goes down in flames. You want that superflex spot to be playable amongst all the positions.

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby blemly » Thu May 13, 2021 7:31 pm

.5/1 is a heavier TEP bc it’s actually a 2x PPR bonus. I don’t think 1/1.5TEP is a huge difference, so I prefer the former.

I also like 6/Pass TD. QBs are the most valuable position in sports, and I like the extra premium for good ones.
Team 1: 12-team SF 0.5 PPR:
QB: Dak, Russ, Stafford, Geno, Dalton
RB: Harris, Gibson, Chubb, Cohen
WR: DK, Ridley, Kirk, Chark, Woods, C Samuel, Shepard, Reagor
TE: Fant, Knox
Team 2: 14-team PPR SF TEP:
QB: Wilson, Burrow, Geno, Foles
RB: Mixon, Gibson, Hines, Cohen, Pollard
WR: DJM, Cooper, Sutton, Deebo, R. Moore, ARSB, Eskridge, Renfrow
TE: Gesicki, Njoku, Arnold
Team 3: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Watson, Lawrence, Winston, Cam
RB: Harris, Ekeler, Dobbins
WR: Hill, AJB, Woods, Chark, Lockett
TE: Gesicki, OJH, Firkser
Team 4: 12-team SF TEP Devy
QB: Wilson, Geno, Ryan, Cousins
RB: Zeke, Chubb, Sanders, Pollard, Hines, Cohen, Henderson
WR: Cooper, Godwin, Sutton, JuJu, Samuel, Fuller, Shepard, Campbell
TE: Fant, Gesicki, Ertz, Freiermuth
Devy: Boutte, Young, Slovis, Harris
Team 5: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Dak, Lance, Jones, Cam
RB: Swift, Sanders, Dobbins, Pollard
WR: Sutton, DJM, Golladay, Chase, Pittman, Kirk, Campbell, Mims, Wallace
TE: Herndon, Gesicki, Freiermuth

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby Pet_Smith » Thu May 13, 2021 11:57 pm

We've just set up a league - 12 team SF, PPR, TE 2PPR, 0.25 PPC

We haven't had a season yet to see how it goes, but based on last seasons numbers, the elite TE's are now in line with the elite WR/RB. The 0.25PPC seems to have normalised RB vs WR (outside the top few stud RB's), and we stuck to 4 point pass TD's.

QB; (start 1-2)
1-12 421 - 295 points
13-24 290 - 192 points

RB; (start 2-5)
1-12 428 - 252 points
13-24 252 - 211 points
25-36 207 - 164 points

WR; (start 3-6)
1-12 358-249
13-24 248 - 217
25-36 212 - 183

TE; (start 1-4)
1-12 418 - 215
13-24 198 - 128
Dynasty - 9th year, 12-team, Standard scoring, 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, 1K, 1DE/DT, 1LB, 1CB/S - 25man roster / 6 Taxi Squad
'17 Champ, '18 Runner Up, '23 rebuild

QB Watson, A Richardson, O' Connel (TS)
RB Gibbs, Akers, Dillon Carter, Bigsby, Chase Brown, Mcintosh, Tucker, Hull (TS)
WR Metcalf, DJ Moore, Addison, Meyers, Van Jefferson, Collins, Claypool, Mingo (TS), Hyatt (TS), Wilson (TS)
TE Higbee, Freirmuth, Otton (TS)
K Joseph
DE/DT Hunter
LB Franklin Simmons
C/S James

1.01, 1.04

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby _yeti » Fri May 14, 2021 6:25 am

For 6 point passing league we also do -3 for INTs and -2 for fumbles but an extra -1 for fumbles lost (to the other team). Bumping INTs up helps to differentiate the QBs who don't turn the ball over and I am in another league that actually does -4 for INTs
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)

12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby Dirty Mike&the Boys » Fri May 14, 2021 9:43 am

I have mine set up for:
1 PPR (.5 premium added on for TE)
6 point passing TD
-3 per fumble lost
-3 per INT, another -3 added on if returned for a TD

It really makes QB even that more valuable in the SF setting. On the flip side you get punished for turning the ball over.
12 TEAM SUPERFLEX, TE Premium, 25 man rosters
QB - | Rodgers | Herbert | Mills
RB - CMC | Chubb | Dobbins | Keaontay Ingram
WR - McLaurin | Deebo | Waddle | Gabriel Davis | Elijah Moore | Mooney | C Ridley | Jameson Williams | Pickens | Alec Pierce | Wan'dale Robinson | Justyn Ross | B Edwards
TE - M Andrews | Friermuth

2023 Picks: 1st round(2), 2nd round(2), 3rd round (2)

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby colt77 » Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm

_yeti wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:25 am For 6 point passing league we also do -3 for INTs and -2 for fumbles but an extra -1 for fumbles lost (to the other team). Bumping INTs up helps to differentiate the QBs who don't turn the ball over and I am in another league that actually does -4 for INTs
I'm actually trying to convince the other 2 league commissioners that we should do 6pt and then bump up the ints to -3 to account for it, but they are being stubborn about it for whatever reason. I think I might have to push for 4pt td passing, but fear i'll be overruled. Just doesn't make sense to do 6pt td passing without some other system helping lower the advantage a bit to average it out. It's still a net positive since an int is only increasing by -1 while a td increase by 2, but they don't see it that way. They think that will only create a greater divide for the elite QBs to the bad ones.
12 Man SF 2point TE Premium PPR 6pt passing Tds - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 3 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, SF, K, D
Qbs: Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence
Rbs: Barkley, Breece Hall, Javonte Williams, Swift, Jamaal Williams
Wrs: Deebo Samuel, Olave, Diontae Johnson, Odell, Bateman, Nico Collins
TEs: Kyle Pitts, Higbee, Kittle, Okonkwo
K: Gay
D: -Steelers

12 Man 1 QB PPR - Lineup req. - Qb, 2 Rbs, 2 Wrs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, K, D 2021 -Picks- 1.04, 1.11, 1.12, 3.01, 3.04
Qbs: Lamar Jackson, Hurts, Tua
Rbs: Barkley, Swift, Akers, Gus Edwards, Henderson, Lindsey, Rhamondre Stevenson
Wrs: Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, AJ Brown, Bateman, Odell Beckham, Tee Higgins, Cooper Kupp, Nico Collins
TEs: Kittle, Pitts, Jacob Harris
K: Butker

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby _yeti » Sat May 15, 2021 5:46 am

colt77 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm
_yeti wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:25 am For 6 point passing league we also do -3 for INTs and -2 for fumbles but an extra -1 for fumbles lost (to the other team). Bumping INTs up helps to differentiate the QBs who don't turn the ball over and I am in another league that actually does -4 for INTs
I'm actually trying to convince the other 2 league commissioners that we should do 6pt and then bump up the ints to -3 to account for it, but they are being stubborn about it for whatever reason. I think I might have to push for 4pt td passing, but fear i'll be overruled. Just doesn't make sense to do 6pt td passing without some other system helping lower the advantage a bit to average it out. It's still a net positive since an int is only increasing by -1 while a td increase by 2, but they don't see it that way. They think that will only create a greater divide for the elite QBs to the bad ones.
Same league as the TE/WR stats I put up above. This was 6 point with -3 for INTs, -2 for fumble and -1 additional for fumble lost

QB1- Mahomes 483
QB2- Rodgers 474
QB3- Allen 467
QB4- Kyler 439
QB5- Wilson 434
QB6- Watson 429
QB7-QB12- 404-348
QB13-QB19- 333-289
QB20-QB24- 244-204
QB25-QB32 188-145

Without 6 point passing TDs, our 2PPR TE king Kelce would have scored more than all QBs, cant have that. I think the distribution of points down the list there is fine for me. There should be a divide of great QBs to bad ones, what the heck haha they just want the position to be interchangeable and streamable and have no trade value? Haha
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)

12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant

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Re: 2 Specific questions for a Startup

Postby Hottoddies » Sat May 15, 2021 6:45 am

colt77 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm
_yeti wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:25 am For 6 point passing league we also do -3 for INTs and -2 for fumbles but an extra -1 for fumbles lost (to the other team). Bumping INTs up helps to differentiate the QBs who don't turn the ball over and I am in another league that actually does -4 for INTs
I'm actually trying to convince the other 2 league commissioners that we should do 6pt and then bump up the ints to -3 to account for it, but they are being stubborn about it for whatever reason. I think I might have to push for 4pt td passing, but fear i'll be overruled. Just doesn't make sense to do 6pt td passing without some other system helping lower the advantage a bit to average it out. It's still a net positive since an int is only increasing by -1 while a td increase by 2, but they don't see it that way. They think that will only create a greater divide for the elite QBs to the bad ones.
I prefer 6 pt pass TD / -3 pt int (or 6pt TD/-4 pt int) to create a bigger difference between the good and bad QBs. Part of the reason QBs are so devalued in fantasy is because there a little difference between a low end QB1 and a low end QB2
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