Team 2 in sig. 2 years in a row now I've lost a QB to injury and spent the rest of the year overpaying for scrub QBs. I've still made and advanced in the playoffs each year, but I don't think it's a sustainable strategy. Another owner is deep at QB, and I'm thinking of adding a QB now to avoid this mess during the year. Some QBs he's open to moving are Dalton, Carr, or Josh Allen. Would you go after any of them, and what would you be willing to give for them given the state of my roster?
Thanks.
Value of a QB3
Value of a QB3
12 tm/PPR/SF/TE+/Full IDP (start 11/11)/Contracts
QB- TLaw, Stafford,
RB-
WR- JJ, Lamb, DJM, Dell, Kirk , QJ
TE- Engram, Schultz
PK/CB-
DT- Madabuike, Vea
DE- Bosa, Young, Ebukam
LB- Speed, Mcfadden, Dodson
S-
1.01, 1.02, 1.11
5 '25 1sts, 4 '26 1sts
QB- TLaw, Stafford,
RB-
WR- JJ, Lamb, DJM, Dell, Kirk , QJ
TE- Engram, Schultz
PK/CB-
DT- Madabuike, Vea
DE- Bosa, Young, Ebukam
LB- Speed, Mcfadden, Dodson
S-
1.01, 1.02, 1.11
5 '25 1sts, 4 '26 1sts
- moishetreats
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- Contact:
Re: Value of a QB3
The value of a QB3 is very high.
Think of it this way: add up everything that you have spent in the past couple of seasons getting replacement parts. And then imagine having to do that again over the next couple of years.
Now say that you had just given all that initially -- plus a little something else -- to get a legit QB that you would have long-term. You'd end up spending less over the sum of the few years AND have a better player available if/when needed.
With all that mind, go for any of the guys that you listed -- or aim even higher. "Overspend" for a 3rd QB. You'll need him for bye weeks, minor injuries, suspensions, or major injuries. To put my roster money where my mouth is, I essentially traded for Team 1 in Sig Conner for Wentz. There is NO doubt that Conner is FAAAAR better for my team's composition than Wentz. But, my season would end with a Rodgers or Wilson injury -- and Wentz should be much better player for significantly longer in the end.
So, yeah, pay up for a genuinely good QB who you are confident in for the next 5+ years rather than ponying up every year and sweating it for a lesser player.
Think of it this way: add up everything that you have spent in the past couple of seasons getting replacement parts. And then imagine having to do that again over the next couple of years.
Now say that you had just given all that initially -- plus a little something else -- to get a legit QB that you would have long-term. You'd end up spending less over the sum of the few years AND have a better player available if/when needed.
With all that mind, go for any of the guys that you listed -- or aim even higher. "Overspend" for a 3rd QB. You'll need him for bye weeks, minor injuries, suspensions, or major injuries. To put my roster money where my mouth is, I essentially traded for Team 1 in Sig Conner for Wentz. There is NO doubt that Conner is FAAAAR better for my team's composition than Wentz. But, my season would end with a Rodgers or Wilson injury -- and Wentz should be much better player for significantly longer in the end.
So, yeah, pay up for a genuinely good QB who you are confident in for the next 5+ years rather than ponying up every year and sweating it for a lesser player.
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
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Re: Value of a QB3
You make a lot really good points in this post, but actually, Conner is a cheap price to pay for Wentz in a 2QB league.moishetreats wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 2:17 pm The value of a QB3 is very high.
Think of it this way: add up everything that you have spent in the past couple of seasons getting replacement parts. And then imagine having to do that again over the next couple of years.
Now say that you had just given all that initially -- plus a little something else -- to get a legit QB that you would have long-term. You'd end up spending less over the sum of the few years AND have a better player available if/when needed.
With all that mind, go for any of the guys that you listed -- or aim even higher. "Overspend" for a 3rd QB. You'll need him for bye weeks, minor injuries, suspensions, or major injuries. To put my roster money where my mouth is, I essentially traded for Team 1 in Sig Conner for Wentz. There is NO doubt that Conner is FAAAAR better for my team's composition than Wentz. But, my season would end with a Rodgers or Wilson injury -- and Wentz should be much better player for significantly longer in the end.
So, yeah, pay up for a genuinely good QB who you are confident in for the next 5+ years rather than ponying up every year and sweating it for a lesser player.
"Smart people learn from everything and everyone, average people from their experiences, stupid people already have all the answers." - Socrates
- moishetreats
- Legend
- Posts: 6562
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:37 pm
- Contact:
Re: Value of a QB3
Thanks. And agreed (mostly). I added that to emphasize not the cost of acquiring Wentz but rather my willingness to take a massive hit on a 2019 championship-contending team to solidify the QB3 spot. I did give up additional bridge pieces, and obviously I think that I got good value. It was just an eye-opening move in my league given the big blow to my squad in terms of a 2019 run.Hottoddies wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 7:56 pmYou make a lot really good points in this post, but actually, Conner is a cheap price to pay for Wentz in a 2QB league.moishetreats wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 2:17 pm The value of a QB3 is very high.
Think of it this way: add up everything that you have spent in the past couple of seasons getting replacement parts. And then imagine having to do that again over the next couple of years.
Now say that you had just given all that initially -- plus a little something else -- to get a legit QB that you would have long-term. You'd end up spending less over the sum of the few years AND have a better player available if/when needed.
With all that mind, go for any of the guys that you listed -- or aim even higher. "Overspend" for a 3rd QB. You'll need him for bye weeks, minor injuries, suspensions, or major injuries. To put my roster money where my mouth is, I essentially traded for Team 1 in Sig Conner for Wentz. There is NO doubt that Conner is FAAAAR better for my team's composition than Wentz. But, my season would end with a Rodgers or Wilson injury -- and Wentz should be much better player for significantly longer in the end.
So, yeah, pay up for a genuinely good QB who you are confident in for the next 5+ years rather than ponying up every year and sweating it for a lesser player.
But, I reaaaaaally value that QB3!
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
Re: Value of a QB3
Would you consider any of Carr, Dalton, or Josh Allen a worthwhile investment at qb3?
12 tm/PPR/SF/TE+/Full IDP (start 11/11)/Contracts
QB- TLaw, Stafford,
RB-
WR- JJ, Lamb, DJM, Dell, Kirk , QJ
TE- Engram, Schultz
PK/CB-
DT- Madabuike, Vea
DE- Bosa, Young, Ebukam
LB- Speed, Mcfadden, Dodson
S-
1.01, 1.02, 1.11
5 '25 1sts, 4 '26 1sts
QB- TLaw, Stafford,
RB-
WR- JJ, Lamb, DJM, Dell, Kirk , QJ
TE- Engram, Schultz
PK/CB-
DT- Madabuike, Vea
DE- Bosa, Young, Ebukam
LB- Speed, Mcfadden, Dodson
S-
1.01, 1.02, 1.11
5 '25 1sts, 4 '26 1sts
- moishetreats
- Legend
- Posts: 6562
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- Contact:
Re: Value of a QB3
They're certainly better then the like stop-gap measures that you have been finding, but I'd rather pay up more to invest in better players.
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball
QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble
2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th
12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball
QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186
IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --
Re: Value of a QB3
I'd be comfortable with any as my QB3. I'm highest on Allen.
12-team SF, PPR, TE premium, 0.25 PPCarry
1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
QB: Mahomes, Fields, Love
RB: Bijan, ETN, Pollard, Achane, Herbert
WR: Kupp, Hill, Metcalf, Ridley, Jeudy, D.J. M, Burks, Hollywood, Wan'Dale
TE: Kyle Pitts, Goedert
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Re: Value of a QB3
All of these points are valuable and I'm in few Superflex Leagues and I've sacrifice QB3 value to have better overall team. I'm in thought process of why add a QB3 when I'm barely going to play him except for bye weeks or potential good match-ups, now if someone gets injured I can potentially hit the waiver wire or make trade. In one of my league last year I only had Rodgers and Bortles, as we know Bortles got benched towards the end of the season I still ended finishing the league with the most points and I ended up finishing in 3rd with only QB to the end of season. In that same league I recently traded 1.09 for Stafford you can argue that i still need another QB but I'll come across that road when i need to.
I personally would only target Carr and Allen, Dalton might be out of Cincy next year.
I personally would only target Carr and Allen, Dalton might be out of Cincy next year.
14 Team PPR League 6pts all TDs 1.5 PPR TE
Start QB 2RB 2WR 2Flex 1TE 1K 28 Man Active Roster
QB-Carr, Palmer, Stanton, Gabbert
RB- Ingram, Coleman, Montgomery, West, Smallwood, K. Bibbs, R.Smith, Marshall
WR-A. Brown, Crowder, Maclin, Aiken, Britt, Ginn, Conley, Kupp(R), Coleman, Wallace, T. Mcbride, J. Hunter
TE-Graham, Rudolph,
TS-Joshua Dobbs, Brian Hill, James Connor, Chad Hansen
Start QB 2RB 2WR 2Flex 1TE 1K 28 Man Active Roster
QB-Carr, Palmer, Stanton, Gabbert
RB- Ingram, Coleman, Montgomery, West, Smallwood, K. Bibbs, R.Smith, Marshall
WR-A. Brown, Crowder, Maclin, Aiken, Britt, Ginn, Conley, Kupp(R), Coleman, Wallace, T. Mcbride, J. Hunter
TE-Graham, Rudolph,
TS-Joshua Dobbs, Brian Hill, James Connor, Chad Hansen
Re: Value of a QB3
I'm kinda torn, I feel like if you're in need of a QB3 you should go find someone with stability aka you're going to pay more. I know for a fact I'm not trading a 1st RD pick for guys like:
- Dalton
- Carr
- Foles
- Manning, Flacco, etc.
Bortles and Tannehill would have been perfect additions to this list, this time last year. It's like, if the value is there ~2nd rounder or something...sure I'd happily take them as a QB3 but no way I'm shelling out a 1st for a Joe Blow who could easily be replaced year over year. Surprised Dalton has made it this long TBH.
In this case, I'd rather pay more for Josh Allen since he should have another 3-4 years of PT (unless the wheels just blow off). Carr and Dalton are already in the firing line.
- Dalton
- Carr
- Foles
- Manning, Flacco, etc.
Bortles and Tannehill would have been perfect additions to this list, this time last year. It's like, if the value is there ~2nd rounder or something...sure I'd happily take them as a QB3 but no way I'm shelling out a 1st for a Joe Blow who could easily be replaced year over year. Surprised Dalton has made it this long TBH.
In this case, I'd rather pay more for Josh Allen since he should have another 3-4 years of PT (unless the wheels just blow off). Carr and Dalton are already in the firing line.
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Re: Value of a QB3
I'm in total agreement with you. I would give a late 1st for Carr if i needed a QB2 but not FOR a QB3Servo wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 11:10 am I'm kinda torn, I feel like if you're in need of a QB3 you should go find someone with stability aka you're going to pay more. I know for a fact I'm not trading a 1st RD pick for guys like:
- Dalton
- Carr
- Foles
- Manning, Flacco, etc.
Bortles and Tannehill would have been perfect additions to this list, this time last year. It's like, if the value is there ~2nd rounder or something...sure I'd happily take them as a QB3 but no way I'm shelling out a 1st for a Joe Blow who could easily be replaced year over year. Surprised Dalton has made it this long TBH.
In this case, I'd rather pay more for Josh Allen since he should have another 3-4 years of PT (unless the wheels just blow off). Carr and Dalton are already in the firing line.
14 Team PPR League 6pts all TDs 1.5 PPR TE
Start QB 2RB 2WR 2Flex 1TE 1K 28 Man Active Roster
QB-Carr, Palmer, Stanton, Gabbert
RB- Ingram, Coleman, Montgomery, West, Smallwood, K. Bibbs, R.Smith, Marshall
WR-A. Brown, Crowder, Maclin, Aiken, Britt, Ginn, Conley, Kupp(R), Coleman, Wallace, T. Mcbride, J. Hunter
TE-Graham, Rudolph,
TS-Joshua Dobbs, Brian Hill, James Connor, Chad Hansen
Start QB 2RB 2WR 2Flex 1TE 1K 28 Man Active Roster
QB-Carr, Palmer, Stanton, Gabbert
RB- Ingram, Coleman, Montgomery, West, Smallwood, K. Bibbs, R.Smith, Marshall
WR-A. Brown, Crowder, Maclin, Aiken, Britt, Ginn, Conley, Kupp(R), Coleman, Wallace, T. Mcbride, J. Hunter
TE-Graham, Rudolph,
TS-Joshua Dobbs, Brian Hill, James Connor, Chad Hansen
Re: Value of a QB3
I’d got for josh Allen as my qb3. I feel that if you have 2 consistent guys then you can take a shot on a high upside guy as your QB3. For me that guy is Lamar because I feel comfortable starting trubisky and Baker every week. With Lamar as my QB3 I can let him develop without needing to play him and if I do have to play him he’s able to go off and carry my team. I see Allen in the same way
Jake Fromm State Farm (12 team PPR SF)
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
Re: Value of a QB3
I overlooked the part that this is sf....ABSOLUTELY!!! I’m holding 4 at a minimum in sf. But, you need rb help bad. I’d trade one of your midtier wr plus jimmy guap or arod and get a rb and two qbs from the guy that’s loaded.
The Mega Powers - 12Team - 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2FLEX/1K - 1PPR
QB - R. Tannehill, T. Bridgewater
RB - J. Taylor, JK Dobbins, C. Akers, Z. Moss, R. Jones, R. Armstead, M. Davis, C. Edmonds
WR - J. Jeudy, H. Ruggs, T. Higgins, L. Shenault, C. Claypool, J. Reagor, C. Davis, J. Washington, B. Aiyuk, Q. Cephus, KJ Hamler, A. Lazard
TE - C. Herndon, D. Sample
Picks - 2021 - 1, 1, 1
Jabroni Beaters - 10Team - 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2FLEX/1K - NONPPR
QB - P. Mahomes B. Mayfield
RB - S. Barkley, E. Elliott, JK Dobbins, A. Peterson, M. Breida, D. Freeman
WR - T. Hill. AJ Brown, DJ Moore, J. Jefferson, J. Edelman, B. Aiyuk, L. Shenault, JJAW, B. Edwards
TE - Z. Ertz, H. Hurst, J. Smith
SuperSonics - 10Team - 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX/1K - .5 PPR
QB - S. Darnold, R. Tannehill, C. Newton
RB - E. Elliott, N. Chubb, D. Cook, R. Jones, A. Peterson
WR - T. Hill, O. Beckham, D. Metcalf, C. Davis, H. Renfrow, R. Cobb
TE - Z. Ertz, E. Engram, H. Henry, J. Smith, K. Rudolph
Picks - 2020 - 2.7
2021 - 2, 3
QB - R. Tannehill, T. Bridgewater
RB - J. Taylor, JK Dobbins, C. Akers, Z. Moss, R. Jones, R. Armstead, M. Davis, C. Edmonds
WR - J. Jeudy, H. Ruggs, T. Higgins, L. Shenault, C. Claypool, J. Reagor, C. Davis, J. Washington, B. Aiyuk, Q. Cephus, KJ Hamler, A. Lazard
TE - C. Herndon, D. Sample
Picks - 2021 - 1, 1, 1
Jabroni Beaters - 10Team - 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2FLEX/1K - NONPPR
QB - P. Mahomes B. Mayfield
RB - S. Barkley, E. Elliott, JK Dobbins, A. Peterson, M. Breida, D. Freeman
WR - T. Hill. AJ Brown, DJ Moore, J. Jefferson, J. Edelman, B. Aiyuk, L. Shenault, JJAW, B. Edwards
TE - Z. Ertz, H. Hurst, J. Smith
SuperSonics - 10Team - 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX/1K - .5 PPR
QB - S. Darnold, R. Tannehill, C. Newton
RB - E. Elliott, N. Chubb, D. Cook, R. Jones, A. Peterson
WR - T. Hill, O. Beckham, D. Metcalf, C. Davis, H. Renfrow, R. Cobb
TE - Z. Ertz, E. Engram, H. Henry, J. Smith, K. Rudolph
Picks - 2020 - 2.7
2021 - 2, 3
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