MFL Position Changes

General discussion and team advice concerning IDP Leagues.
good2bjking
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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby good2bjking » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:22 am

FiremanEd wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:04 am Has the feel of a bad employee of just doesn’t do his job and then at the deadline does the bare minimum, passing the buck to Commissioners to make the changes instead (as if bylaws aren’t a thing).
Don't blame Gary. I used to do the same - and believe me I don't understand some of the changes he pushes - but he's between a rock and a hard place with these positional designations. I know he knows that in existing leagues that are tackle heavy, moving those DEs to LB can ruin a player's value and he's reticent to do that. Team and online depth charts are fairly bullshit when it comes to designations in today's NFL since players line up in different spots, rotate pre-snap, etc. to try to keep offenses guessing. I get the Neal point - is what he's going to do this year so much different than what he did in Atlanta? Probably not other than he goes into the linebacker room for meetings vs. hanging with the safeties and DBs.

Honestly as much as I swear by MFL, whoever Gary is advising at MFL about default designations needs to listen up. Long-time existing leagues just aren't going to use Sticky's tool or manually switch players - edge and IDL positions are going to have to be made the default. I'm in a ton of these leagues where commissioners just won't make that flip because they don't want to be blamed by owners for impacting player values.

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby FiremanEd » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:18 am

good2bjking wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:22 am
FiremanEd wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:04 am Has the feel of a bad employee of just doesn’t do his job and then at the deadline does the bare minimum, passing the buck to Commissioners to make the changes instead (as if bylaws aren’t a thing).
Don't blame Gary. I used to do the same - and believe me I don't understand some of the changes he pushes - but he's between a rock and a hard place with these positional designations. I know he knows that in existing leagues that are tackle heavy, moving those DEs to LB can ruin a player's value and he's reticent to do that. Team and online depth charts are fairly bullshit when it comes to designations in today's NFL since players line up in different spots, rotate pre-snap, etc. to try to keep offenses guessing. I get the Neal point - is what he's going to do this year so much different than what he did in Atlanta? Probably not other than he goes into the linebacker room for meetings vs. hanging with the safeties and DBs.

Honestly as much as I swear by MFL, whoever Gary is advising at MFL about default designations needs to listen up. Long-time existing leagues just aren't going to use Sticky's tool or manually switch players - edge and IDL positions are going to have to be made the default. I'm in a ton of these leagues where commissioners just won't make that flip because they don't want to be blamed by owners for impacting player values.
I disagree with this. The responsibility is to make the depth charts reflective of the positions a player is playing according to DT, DE, LB, S, CB. Whether or not it impacts the players value by having that reflected correctly is irrelevant. I get that True Position is his savior from getting any heat, but leagues that use MFL are based on those positions and the players should be put to the position they are playing according to them. Neal to LB is accurate. The Lions have clearly stated Okwara and Flowers are OLB in their 3-4. He opted not to move them because he didn't want to deal with the responses of people on Twitter. He doesn't have any other rationale. I'd say that is not a valid justification for doing the job incorrect and incomplete, but clearly others view it differently and think their player value should be protected regardless of accuracy.

I saw he did a poll on whether to leave players as is or to change them. I'm not surprised at the result of 55%/45% because most of the changes that could have occurred would be 'negative' from a value perspective. All things considered, it is impressive it was as close as it is, but i guess a strong 45% wanted things to be accurate rather than 'value favoring'. I get the sentiment of team and online depth charges as not 100%, but thinking they are any worse than what Gary is doing isn't accurate either. You don't have to look very hard to find details on the Detroit stuff.

MFL is in the process of adding True Position. That said, it doesn't change the fact that in 2021 it isn't there, and Gary didn't update things correctly or in their entirety. He wanted to wait for more info (so he said repeatedly) and then waited and 'didn't want to impact people late in the game'. He failed miserably at his role if accuracy is the name of the game. If his job is to keep the majority happy, then I'd say he accomplished that according to his poll. I much prefer the old Breeze days where he did what had to be done though.

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby Pullo Vision » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm

FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:18 amMFL is in the process of adding True Position.
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 W/R/T, 1 Def

League #3- 12 tm PPR, 1Q, 0R (yes, ZERO RB) 3W, 1T, 2 R/W/T flex, 1 Def

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby FiremanEd » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm

Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:18 amMFL is in the process of adding True Position.
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby Pullo Vision » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:26 pm

FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm
Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:18 amMFL is in the process of adding True Position.
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. Nice to see what it'd do for the rush OLBs, but 3-4 DTs being relabeled to DL seems would deplete the stash of DTs. Curious if that would make them TE like- thin elite tier and a hodge podge behind.
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 W/R/T, 1 Def

League #3- 12 tm PPR, 1Q, 0R (yes, ZERO RB) 3W, 1T, 2 R/W/T flex, 1 Def

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby FiremanEd » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:40 pm

Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:26 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm
Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. Nice to see what it'd do for the rush OLBs, but 3-4 DTs being relabeled to DL seems would deplete the stash of DTs. Curious if that would make them TE like- thin elite tier and a hodge podge behind.
Adding 3-4 DE’s to the same pool as 4-3 DTs would add more options there. Not many, but a few, such as Leonard Williams (previously a DT with Jets).

If existing leagues switch to this then they would have to reevaluate starter requirements and potentially scoring.

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby ThunderTung » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 pm

Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:26 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm
Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. Nice to see what it'd do for the rush OLBs, but 3-4 DTs being relabeled to DL seems would deplete the stash of DTs. Curious if that would make them TE like- thin elite tier and a hodge podge behind.
As someone who's league ropes in DE and DT as one single DL unit. We'd probably keep the same and just add the EDGE position into that group.

Its a much need change imo though. Its hard to determine how teams are going to label their players when someone gets traded, or signed, its even worse during rookie drafts.

I drafted Bradley Chubb a few seasons ago thinking I'd have a nice pass rusher to put in my DL, but he gets labeled as a LB and now he's worth nothing. Just seems like an outdated way to label players and can make things pretty inconsistent.
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr

QB(1): Geno Smith
RB(2): ETN/Walker III
WR(2): Chase/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Stevenson/Garrett Wilson
K: Mcpherson
DL(2): T. Walker/Vea
LB(2): D. Long/TJ Edwards
DB(2) Dugger/Moehrig
FLEX: Kenneth Murray
IR: J. Hicks/Milano/Marcus Jones
Bench:
QB: Mac Jones/Bryce Young
RB: Zeke/D. Harris
WR: N. Brown/Demario Douglas/Bobby Trees/Parker/Tyler Scott
TE: Bellinger/Schultz
DL: Barrett/J. Davis/Yannick/
LB: Milano/Edwards/K. Murray/J. Smith
DB: Mathieu/Jonothan Owens

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby FiremanEd » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:27 am

Knowing Chubb would be OLB similar to Von Miller was pretty easy. Was your rookie draft prior to the NFL draft? I mean, I get the value and inconvenience of the change, but from a DL or LB perspective, this shouldn’t have been a surprise. Accuracy reflective of position took priority there.

Agree that True Position will remove those scenarios for those who don’t like the changes though. I totally get it from a classification perspective and think for new leagues it will be nice, although Gary has tried to keep the convenience anyway with the current setup. Maybe in the future with True Position as an option he will be more willing to make the LB vs DE changes.

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby GridironGuerilla » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:34 am

Likely up to MFL/Gary Devenport and then comish decides how to parcel out scoring and positional grouping.
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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby Pullo Vision » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:52 pm

FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:40 pm
Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:26 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm

The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. Nice to see what it'd do for the rush OLBs, but 3-4 DTs being relabeled to DL seems would deplete the stash of DTs. Curious if that would make them TE like- thin elite tier and a hodge podge behind.
Adding 3-4 DE’s to the same pool as 4-3 DTs would add more options there. Not many, but a few, such as Leonard Williams (previously a DT with Jets).

If existing leagues switch to this then they would have to reevaluate starter requirements and potentially scoring.
So, with this scheme change, rush OLBs look like would see a significant value jump.
IDL- 4-3 DTs, 3-4 DEs and DTs
Edge- 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs

I'm in a few DT required leagues. Have any commishes in those leagues decided how they will handle this?
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 W/R/T, 1 Def

League #3- 12 tm PPR, 1Q, 0R (yes, ZERO RB) 3W, 1T, 2 R/W/T flex, 1 Def

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby Pullo Vision » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:01 pm

ThunderTung wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 pm
Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:26 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:19 pm

The only change I’m aware of would be that 4-3 DT and and 3-4 DE/DT would be Interior DL, and 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLD would be EDGE. No change for 4-3 LB or 3-4 ILB, or DBs.

Value increase is for OLB so they aren’t with the other tackle volume LBs and instead scored like other pass rushers.

Not that existing leagues won’t auto change to my knowledge. This approach would simply be an option. If MFL mandates existing leagues switch, that wouldn’t be a good thing IMO. Each league should be able to choose and implement accordingly.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. Nice to see what it'd do for the rush OLBs, but 3-4 DTs being relabeled to DL seems would deplete the stash of DTs. Curious if that would make them TE like- thin elite tier and a hodge podge behind.
As someone who's league ropes in DE and DT as one single DL unit. We'd probably keep the same and just add the EDGE position into that group.

Its a much need change imo though. Its hard to determine how teams are going to label their players when someone gets traded, or signed, its even worse during rookie drafts.

I drafted Bradley Chubb a few seasons ago thinking I'd have a nice pass rusher to put in my DL, but he gets labeled as a LB and now he's worth nothing. Just seems like an outdated way to label players and can make things pretty inconsistent.
I've hated OLBs going from 4-3 to 3-4. If anything, I'd think good rush LBs going from 3-4 to 4-3 would see a value decrease because they'd get changed from Edge to LB. I've been watching where Justin Houston would sign and hate how he got moved from DE to LB.
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 W/R/T, 1 Def

League #3- 12 tm PPR, 1Q, 0R (yes, ZERO RB) 3W, 1T, 2 R/W/T flex, 1 Def

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby TB3falcons » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:54 pm

meineymoe wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:07 pm Would the NFL start using the Edge designation? Or would it be arbitrarily left up to mfl or your fantasy league manager?
As it is now, I believe it is literally one dude that specifies position changes. However, a commish can go in and edit positions as required.
16 Team PPR(.5 for RBs)/RetY/Balanced IDP League (QB,RB,2WR,TE,4FLX,PK,PN,DT,2DE,3LB,2CB,2S,1DFLX) 2018 & 2019 LC
QB- Mahomes, Ryan
RB- Gordon, Ingram, Swift, Gore, Hyde, Ogunbowale
WR- Hopkins, KAllen, Lockett, Golladay, Fitz, Edelman, MJones, Crowder, Cobb, Claypool, AGG, Miller (CHI), Humphries, Conley, David Moore, Demarcus Robinson, Gordon :boohoo:
TE- Olsen, Ian Thomas, Njoku
PK- Butker
PN- Cooke
DT- CJones, Ogunjobi, Kinlaw
DE- Hunter, DLaw, Young, Anderson, Turay
LB- Littleton, Mosley, D. Davis, Schobert, Bush, AJ Johnson, Walker, Evans, Burgess
CB- C Davis, Ward, Murphy-Bunting
S- JJ3, Walker, Williams, Rapp, Parks

Taxi: Oliver, Laird, Collier, Cominsky, Phillips, JAXWilliams, Harris, Willis

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Re: MFL Position Changes

Postby Kcarr » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:47 pm

Pullo Vision wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
FiremanEd wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:18 amMFL is in the process of adding True Position.
To get ahead of this, what players would see a value change (up and down) with this? 3-4 OLB? I'm guessing Chandler Jones and Baltimore guys like Justin Houston? How would DEs be affected? If LBs would get broken into interior and edge, would CBs be broken into boundary corners and slot corners? Would Safeties get a new position, and would their values change? I could imagine SSs getting grouped with interior LBs.
With true position 3-4 LBS become much more valuable. Des become more diluted dropping their value a little with extra talent added to the pool. DTs also get diluted some with a few DEs getting thrown in there but both DE and DT do gain some stability in that you don't have to worry about a position change killing their value. Also LBS become a little more scarce increasing their value some, especially toward the back end because you can't just grab some rush LB that everyone passed on as your LB3 or 4
4th and long: ppr, 10 team, qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, dl, dl, lb, lb, db, db, dflex, dflex

QB: Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor, Jared Goff
RB: Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Theo Riddick, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Jamal Williams
WR: Alshon Jeffrey, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Keenan Allen, Jordan Matthews, Cole Beasley, Robby Anderson, Corey Davis, Breshad Perriman, Eli Rogers
TE: Eric Ebron, , David Njoku, Jack Doyle
K: Will Lutz
DL: Frank Clark, Danielle Hunter
LB: Luke Kuechley, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Mark Barron, Darron Lee
DB: Sean Davis, Morgan Burnett,

IR: Clayton Geathers, Quincy Enunwa, Raekwon McMillan


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