IDP scoring input

General discussion and team advice concerning IDP Leagues.
grrmassa
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IDP scoring input

Postby grrmassa » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Commish of a 16-team league w/IDP. There has been a push by a small number of managers to do away with IDP, others (like myself) would like to try and revamp the scoring to make it better before turning back to team DEF (or possibly no defense at all).

Long and the short of it without getting into too many details:

The current system, like most, heavily favors tackle machines. 1 pt for solo, .5 pt for assist.

I have read some ideas which weight the scoring in favor of sacks, INTs, fumble rec...basically the BIG defensive plays.

Im looking for input on what others have and what you all think might work best.

Thanks!

ESKAY
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby ESKAY » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:23 pm

Tackles for DT and DE = 3 points
Tackles for LB and DBs =1.5
Sacks for all= 3 points.
Recovered fumbles and INT= 3 points.

You can start with something like that and adjust every year. I think you will find that the top defensive scorers using this system will score 200-250 per year.

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qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:30 pm

ESKAY wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:23 pm
Tackles for DT and DE = 3 points
Tackles for LB and DBs =1.5
Sacks for all= 3 points.
Recovered fumbles and INT= 3 points.

You can start with something like that and adjust every year. I think you will find that the top defensive scorers using this system will score 200-250 per year.
This is similar to what my IDP league has in scoring. You'll have your elite guys like Watt in his prime that can go bananas with those settings, but other than that it's pretty fair. And honestly, if a defensive players has a couple of sacks, a few tackles and caused a fumble or two, then they should have a chance to get elite points for it, just as WRs or RBs do for a great game on offense.
DFL Premium league:
16 owner 1 PPR, Start QB, 2RB, 3WR, Flex, D
QB: Mahomes, Allen, RG3, Winston, Kessler, Mullens
RB: Hilliard, Ty Johnson
WR: Anderson, Washington, Hardman, Thomas, Jones, TJ Jones, Rogers
TE: Herndon, Knox, Oliver, Smith, Thomas
7 x 2020 First Round Picks


Other league:
12 owner, 1 PPR, 4pt QB TD, SF, TE premium
QB: Mahomes, Murray, Flacco, Lock
RB: Kerryon, Chris Thompson, Harris, Guice, AD, Ballage, Darwin Thompson
WR: Evans, Cooper, Watkins, Marquise Brown, John Brown, Hardman, Harry, Humphries, Isabella, D Williams, Campbell
TE: Engram, Irv Smith, Jonnu Smith
D: Pats Eagles, Seahwaks
K: Random Dork

IR1
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby IR1 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:51 pm

We have DT tackles 4, all others 2
Sack and int 12
DE and elite LB tend to be valued at 2nd tier rb/wr value
10Team PPR-QB/RB/WR/WR/TE/PK/flex-DT/DE/DE/LB/LB/LB/CB/CB/S/S/flex
Wilson, Cousins, Winston, Luck/ Kamara, Chubb, Mixon, Guice/Hopkins, Evans, Allen, CDavis, Harry, Godwin, JJAW/ Kelce, Howard, Fant/ PK
Buckner, Simmons, Hurst/JBosa, Hunter, Dunlap, Barnett, Ingram / D Jones Warner, Mack, E Kendricks, DLeonard, REvans, TSmith/Moore, Peters, Jenkins/ Byard, HSmith, Amos IR Williams, Campbell
12 team SF QB/RB/WR/TE/ 3flex/1SF
Wentz, Cousins, Lock, Bridgewater, Minshew/ KJohnson, Michel, Sanders, Hill, Walton/ Allen, Lockett, AJ Brown, JJAW, Meyers, DJax, AMiller, Sheppard, MJones, Kirk, Treadwell, KCole/ Ertz, Fant, Hurst

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_yeti
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby _yeti » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:28 am

We started a league last year where we wanted to push the envelope farther on IDP. This is for serious players, your superstar IDPs WILL score like a top tier offensive player, allowing them to actually win games for you and hold more value. By bumping big play points you elevate the better players and it isn't just tackle machines on bad teams. I think for this type of scoring to be implemented you have to be at the startup stage. It is too high scoring to transition to with guys already on rosters. That being said, this is my favorite format of any league and offense only leagues ALWAYS feel lacking to me.

Start 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 1 IDP Flex

DEFENSIVE SCORING

Tackles 1.5 points each
Assists 0.5 points each
Sacked a QB 5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 4 points each
Passes Defensed 1 point each
Fumble Recoveries 4 points each
Forced Fumbles 5 points each
Interceptions Caught 6 points each
Blocked Field Goals 6 points each
Blocked Punts 6 points each
Blocked Extra Points 3 points each
Safeties 6 points each
Defensive & Special Teams TDs 6 points each

DT PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Defensive Tackles 2 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each

DB PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Passes Defensed 1.5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*4 leagues (Sig est. '15,
others '17, '18, '18, 2 total Championships)

12 Team 1/2 PPR - TE Prem., IDP *2018 Champion* 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: R. Wilson, M. Mariota, N. Foles, J. Flacco, R. Fitzpatrick
RB: E. Elliot, M. Mack, C. Carson, J. McKinnon, T. Pollard, B. Scarbrough, T. Yeldon, D. Foreman
WR: M. Evans, AB, A. Cooper, C. Davis, J. Ross, D. Pettis, D. Jackson, D. Thomas, Q. Enunwa, N. Agholor
TE: D. Njoku, E. Ebron, N. Fant, I. Thomas
DL: A. Donald, D. Hunter, D. Buckner, N. Bosa, C. Jones
LB: B. Wagner, CJ Mosley, A. Ogletree, J. Collins
DB: L. Collins, E. Jackson T. Mathieu
'20 Picks: 1.1, 1.9, 2.1, 2.9, 2.11, 3.11, 4.6, 4.10

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qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:39 am

_yeti wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:28 am
We started a league last year where we wanted to push the envelope farther on IDP. This is for serious players, your superstar IDPs WILL score like a top tier offensive player, allowing them to actually win games for you and hold more value. By bumping big play points you elevate the better players and it isn't just tackle machines on bad teams. I think for this type of scoring to be implemented you have to be at the startup stage. It is too high scoring to transition to with guys already on rosters. That being said, this is my favorite format of any league and offense only leagues ALWAYS feel lacking to me.

Start 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 1 IDP Flex

DEFENSIVE SCORING

Tackles 1.5 points each
Assists 0.5 points each
Sacked a QB 5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 4 points each
Passes Defensed 1 point each
Fumble Recoveries 4 points each
Forced Fumbles 5 points each
Interceptions Caught 6 points each
Blocked Field Goals 6 points each
Blocked Punts 6 points each
Blocked Extra Points 3 points each
Safeties 6 points each
Defensive & Special Teams TDs 6 points each

DT PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Defensive Tackles 2 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each

DB PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Passes Defensed 1.5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each
We tried something similar to this and then decided to tone it down after 2 seasons. Especially tackles for a loss just got too ridiculous imo. You could have a guy tackle a rb before he even got to the line of scrimmage twice in a row and get almost 10 points, when it didn't impact the game even remotely to the degree that 8-10 fantasy points on offense would have (via say a 40 yard td run).




On a side note, while I do very much enjoy cheering on the defensive players as well, I reeeeeeally hate how in idp you often have scoring changes a few days after the games. I have a screenshot somewhere of our league championship being retroactively decided because the nfl reassigned 2 tackles after the game was over and it changed the outcome of our finals. No solution to it sadly, and not a huge deal, but it is kind of annoying to have to wait a few days to be ensured your victory.
DFL Premium league:
16 owner 1 PPR, Start QB, 2RB, 3WR, Flex, D
QB: Mahomes, Allen, RG3, Winston, Kessler, Mullens
RB: Hilliard, Ty Johnson
WR: Anderson, Washington, Hardman, Thomas, Jones, TJ Jones, Rogers
TE: Herndon, Knox, Oliver, Smith, Thomas
7 x 2020 First Round Picks


Other league:
12 owner, 1 PPR, 4pt QB TD, SF, TE premium
QB: Mahomes, Murray, Flacco, Lock
RB: Kerryon, Chris Thompson, Harris, Guice, AD, Ballage, Darwin Thompson
WR: Evans, Cooper, Watkins, Marquise Brown, John Brown, Hardman, Harry, Humphries, Isabella, D Williams, Campbell
TE: Engram, Irv Smith, Jonnu Smith
D: Pats Eagles, Seahwaks
K: Random Dork

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_yeti
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby _yeti » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:05 pm

qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:39 am
_yeti wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:28 am
We started a league last year where we wanted to push the envelope farther on IDP. This is for serious players, your superstar IDPs WILL score like a top tier offensive player, allowing them to actually win games for you and hold more value. By bumping big play points you elevate the better players and it isn't just tackle machines on bad teams. I think for this type of scoring to be implemented you have to be at the startup stage. It is too high scoring to transition to with guys already on rosters. That being said, this is my favorite format of any league and offense only leagues ALWAYS feel lacking to me.

Start 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 1 IDP Flex

DEFENSIVE SCORING

Tackles 1.5 points each
Assists 0.5 points each
Sacked a QB 5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 4 points each
Passes Defensed 1 point each
Fumble Recoveries 4 points each
Forced Fumbles 5 points each
Interceptions Caught 6 points each
Blocked Field Goals 6 points each
Blocked Punts 6 points each
Blocked Extra Points 3 points each
Safeties 6 points each
Defensive & Special Teams TDs 6 points each

DT PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Defensive Tackles 2 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each

DB PREMIUM SCORING (all other Defensive Scoring categories apply)

Passes Defensed 1.5 points each
Tackles for a Loss 5 points each
Sacked a QB 6 points each
We tried something similar to this and then decided to tone it down after 2 seasons. Especially tackles for a loss just got too ridiculous imo. You could have a guy tackle a rb before he even got to the line of scrimmage twice in a row and get almost 10 points, when it didn't impact the game even remotely to the degree that 8-10 fantasy points on offense would have (via say a 40 yard td run).

On a side note, while I do very much enjoy cheering on the defensive players as well, I reeeeeeally hate how in idp you often have scoring changes a few days after the games. I have a screenshot somewhere of our league championship being retroactively decided because the nfl reassigned 2 tackles after the game was over and it changed the outcome of our finals. No solution to it sadly, and not a huge deal, but it is kind of annoying to have to wait a few days to be ensured your victory.
It's true, it isn't for the faint of heart! On the TFL note, it is similar to PPR to me, you can catch a pass for a loss and still get a point. But you're right, it isn't perfect. In a vacuum of one or two plays it seems excessive but as a whole it does lift the stud IDP players up to about where offensive players are. One thing I forgot to mention is in setting this up, we did 6 point QB touchdowns, full PPR, and 2 points per reception TE premium, so everyone gets a boost to try to separate the top players from the rest.

Earlier in my fantasy days, I tried to mimic game impact in scoring so much more. This one league just focuses on elevating the top players at every position so they all can carry great trade value and win a game when they go off. It could also be argued that specific sacks or TFLs might have more impact in some games than most offensive plays, and is why top pass-rushers are sought at a premium in real life. I just feel like if you do IDP but you do a wishy-washy version it just becomes streaming forgettable positions with no trade value.
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*4 leagues (Sig est. '15,
others '17, '18, '18, 2 total Championships)

12 Team 1/2 PPR - TE Prem., IDP *2018 Champion* 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: R. Wilson, M. Mariota, N. Foles, J. Flacco, R. Fitzpatrick
RB: E. Elliot, M. Mack, C. Carson, J. McKinnon, T. Pollard, B. Scarbrough, T. Yeldon, D. Foreman
WR: M. Evans, AB, A. Cooper, C. Davis, J. Ross, D. Pettis, D. Jackson, D. Thomas, Q. Enunwa, N. Agholor
TE: D. Njoku, E. Ebron, N. Fant, I. Thomas
DL: A. Donald, D. Hunter, D. Buckner, N. Bosa, C. Jones
LB: B. Wagner, CJ Mosley, A. Ogletree, J. Collins
DB: L. Collins, E. Jackson T. Mathieu
'20 Picks: 1.1, 1.9, 2.1, 2.9, 2.11, 3.11, 4.6, 4.10

Ice
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby Ice » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Been playing complex IDP forever or at least 14 years.

If you want to make it balanced to offense

DT/DE 3 tackle 1.5 assist
LB’s and DB’s 2 tackle 1 assist

DT/DE/LB
Sacks /FF / FR and Int’s 4 points
TD’s 6 points

DB’s same as above but 6 points for sacks

1 point for PD for DB’s 2 points for LB’s and De’s

Roughly 32 of top 64 players will be defense and trades get really fun as top LB’s score like RB’s

We finally stopped tweaking scoring system about 6 years ago as this is balanced

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Oddball456
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby Oddball456 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:06 pm

grrmassa wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:23 pm
Commish of a 16-team league w/IDP. There has been a push by a small number of managers to do away with IDP, others (like myself) would like to try and revamp the scoring to make it better before turning back to team DEF (or possibly no defense at all).

Long and the short of it without getting into too many details:

The current system, like most, heavily favors tackle machines. 1 pt for solo, .5 pt for assist.

I have read some ideas which weight the scoring in favor of sacks, INTs, fumble rec...basically the BIG defensive plays.

Im looking for input on what others have and what you all think might work best.

Thanks!
I am only in 1 dynasty league and it is IDP, I can't see joining another league if it isn't IDP. What are your starting requirements for Off and IDP? I think the # of def players should be about the same as Off players. We start QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, TE, Flex, K, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 DB, Def Flex

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BlackOmega
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby BlackOmega » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Just an observation based on some of the scoring systems which have been shown so far. A pass defended should always score more points than a tackle, after all in a real football game a defender knocking a ball away from a receiver is far more valuable to his team than to let the receiver catch the ball and then tackle them!

Ice
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby Ice » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:14 am

BlackOmega wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Just an observation based on some of the scoring systems which have been shown so far. A pass defended should always score more points than a tackle, after all in a real football game a defender knocking a ball away from a receiver is far more valuable to his team than to let the receiver catch the ball and then tackle them!
Problem is there are a million DB’s on the market. In IDP the DB2 on a team is better than the DB 1 on a team.

Overvalued position in fantasy due to numbers of players which reduces skill factor of owners

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BlackOmega
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby BlackOmega » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:29 am

Ice wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:14 am
BlackOmega wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Just an observation based on some of the scoring systems which have been shown so far. A pass defended should always score more points than a tackle, after all in a real football game a defender knocking a ball away from a receiver is far more valuable to his team than to let the receiver catch the ball and then tackle them!
Problem is there are a million DB’s on the market. In IDP the DB2 on a team is better than the DB 1 on a team.

Overvalued position in fantasy due to numbers of players which reduces skill factor of owners
Well a pass defended applies to DL and LB as well, JJ Watt used to get a fair number when he was at his peak. And awarding points for defending a pass also makes "real" top DB's closer to their value on the football field. And of course there are many DB's out there these days with the league going more pass heavy you have some teams that go 5 or 6 DB's sometimes for an entire game depending on who they are playing. And the point I was making remains valid, it's better to prevent a pass completion than tackle a guy after he catches a ball so pass defended should score more

Ski mask ready
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Re: IDP scoring input

Postby Ski mask ready » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:09 pm

Check out my league. We have different scoring for each defensive position. The reason why we did that is we wanted some parity between offensive and defensive players. It's not perfect but its pretty damn close. Last yr we have 5 rbs above 300, 8 wr above 300, 3 te aobe 300, 3 dts above 300, 3 de's 250+, 6 lbs 260+, 4 S 250+ and CB's are a bit watered down cause there are so many of them. Everyone if our league loves the scoring cause it doesn't favor offensively minded teams. Team that won last yr had the best built team, not the best players.

https://www71.myfantasyleague.com/2019/home/58058#0

If you have questions you can DM if needed. Feel free to use any bylaws if needed as well.
12 Team PPR, IDP Dynasty 40 Man Roster
Lineup: QB, 2 RB, 2WR, TE, flex (rb, wr, te), 2 DL, 2 LB, 3 DB, Flex Defender

QB: Wentz, Flacco, Lock, Minshew
RB: DJ, Fournette, Mixon, J White, Yeldon, P. Barber, D. Hilliard,
WR: M Evans, AJ Green, Woods, Diggs, Locket, K. Joshnson AZ, K.Stills, Lazard, Pascal,
TE: Ertz, J Oliver, Seals-Jones
DL: Bosa, C Jones, E Ansah, F Cox, T Charlton,
LB: L David, K Alexander, A Ogeltree, D Jones, T Davis,
DB: L Collins, S Harrison, B Baker, Geathers, K Fuller

No picks until 2022


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