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Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:25 pm
by Space Cowboy
Bruiser wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 7:56 pm
Kossack, I agree that it's good to be out in front. I have Buckner in a DT-weighted league and am anticipating his move. It's not a given at this point, but you have to look at what they have and make an informed decision. That said, if they truly intend to change and stick to the 4-3, the Niners will need to continue to draft 4-3 D-linemen, because the 2015-16 picks they made suggest they were building the 3-4 base. We'll see what that means beyond 2017.
Lynch --- Buckner --- Thomas --- Armstead

With Brooks at SAM, Bowman at MIKE and Malcom Smith WILL

Is how I see it playing out.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:28 pm
by lukkynumber13
OldTimer wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 3:19 pm
New to DLF. Are most of you in MFL? If so, is it common to use the "change player position" function? Several years ago I had 9 DLs on my roster and 10 LBs (65 man rosters). Five DEs got changed to LBs leaving me with 4 and 15 respectively. Fouled my whole draft for that year up. The following year we started changing player positions back if the owner wanted to do that. Thoughts?
I'm very strongly against it. IDP success requires a lot of research but all that research also eliminates much of the risk.

We have to realize that when we have DEs on our roster who are 6'2/245 and play in a 4-3, and their coach gets fired, that we may be looking at a 3-4 OLB come next season.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:44 pm
by FiremanEd
OldTimer wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 3:19 pm
New to DLF. Are most of you in MFL? If so, is it common to use the "change player position" function? Several years ago I had 9 DLs on my roster and 10 LBs (65 man rosters). Five DEs got changed to LBs leaving me with 4 and 15 respectively. Fouled my whole draft for that year up. The following year we started changing player positions back if the owner wanted to do that. Thoughts?
Yes, most are on MFL. No, most won't use that function.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:16 pm
by OldTimer
Our leagues do use that function and this is why. Though I agree it is our responsibility to do our work concerning these players, many of them get caught up in the very D changes mentioned. For sure a 6'2/245 guy is not and will not be a legit DE. However, my issue with these position switches have been more toward the other spectrum. Men who are 6'5/270,280,290, or 300 aren't LBs either. Show me numbers from anybody's FF league that would have had them anywhere near the top.

My issue also applies to guys like Jerry Hughes and Vic Beasley. You may like them at DE, but if you drafted them to be a LB, and they get switched, are you supposed to just be agreeable? Man, not me.

I want to find those 4-3 kinda DEs and would love to see them kept at their rightful position. Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Lamarr Houston, Quinton Coples, are not, and should never be considered LBs. Every one of them sucked (at least in our leagues) once converted. Okay, how many of you drafted S Mark Barron, S Deone Buccanan, or LB Telvin Smith? I did draft Barron and Smith out of college. Figured Smith would get converted to S but that never happened. He's done great though I don't know how at his size. What about the other 2? Barron went from my #1 DB (2nd overall in my league) to the #20 overall LB (my #6 LB). WTH? How does Barron help me when he can't even get in my starting lineup as a LB? How does his value in trade help me as the #20 overall LB vs the #2 overall DB?

Think of this. I am certain almost every single FF person on this forum would have loved to have gotten Joey Bosa last year. Yeah, me too. What if the Bolts had hired some hard-line 3-4 coordinator who wanted him to be converted to LB? If Bosa hadn't held out last year he would have been #6 DL in my league and #31 LB. At his actual numbers, he was the #21 DL and would have been our #63 LB. Which Bosa would you want? Go back in your leagues and look at these very examples. I'm sure your numbers will agree.

Anyhow my point is only that the machinations of the NFL should not interfere with what we do as owners. Changes to their team's rosters have an affect on our teams/rosters in ways that don't necessarily benefit us. So, in my leagues, I choose to allow changes.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:33 am
by Oslo Oildrillers
OldTimer wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 11:16 pm
Our leagues do use that function and this is why. Though I agree it is our responsibility to do our work concerning these players, many of them get caught up in the very D changes mentioned. For sure a 6'2/245 guy is not and will not be a legit DE. However, my issue with these position switches have been more toward the other spectrum. Men who are 6'5/270,280,290, or 300 aren't LBs either. Show me numbers from anybody's FF league that would have had them anywhere near the top.

My issue also applies to guys like Jerry Hughes and Vic Beasley. You may like them at DE, but if you drafted them to be a LB, and they get switched, are you supposed to just be agreeable? Man, not me.

I want to find those 4-3 kinda DEs and would love to see them kept at their rightful position. Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Lamarr Houston, Quinton Coples, are not, and should never be considered LBs. Every one of them sucked (at least in our leagues) once converted. Okay, how many of you drafted S Mark Barron, S Deone Buccanan, or LB Telvin Smith? I did draft Barron and Smith out of college. Figured Smith would get converted to S but that never happened. He's done great though I don't know how at his size. What about the other 2? Barron went from my #1 DB (2nd overall in my league) to the #20 overall LB (my #6 LB). WTH? How does Barron help me when he can't even get in my starting lineup as a LB? How does his value in trade help me as the #20 overall LB vs the #2 overall DB?

Think of this. I am certain almost every single FF person on this forum would have loved to have gotten Joey Bosa last year. Yeah, me too. What if the Bolts had hired some hard-line 3-4 coordinator who wanted him to be converted to LB? If Bosa hadn't held out last year he would have been #6 DL in my league and #31 LB. At his actual numbers, he was the #21 DL and would have been our #63 LB. Which Bosa would you want? Go back in your leagues and look at these very examples. I'm sure your numbers will agree.

Anyhow my point is only that the machinations of the NFL should not interfere with what we do as owners. Changes to their team's rosters have an affect on our teams/rosters in ways that don't necessarily benefit us. So, in my leagues, I choose to allow changes.
You're bringing up two quite different situations as examples though. I feel you with the LB/DE conversions. As I've written about a lot in the "Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP" post here in this IDP forum I think the way we handle DT/DE/LB by looking at base positions is outdated.

But safeties moving to LB is typically a little bit of a different thing. Mark Barron was a strong safety who later in his career was used as a third safety in the box as a big nickel/dime, but then got re-trained and used as a WILL when Ogletree broke his ankle. He actually changed position in real life, not just in FF. As for Bucannon he was actually never a starting safety. He started off as a sub-package in-the-box safety and then later started playing every down, lining up as an LB in base formations. He still has a bit of a hybrid role, as his role in sub-packages is often the big nickel/dime role, but he doesn't play a snap at any of the two starting safety positions.

If all the owners in your league prefers being able to change position designations to avoid players getting moved around, then I guess that's fine as long as everyone came into it with eyes wide open and everyone agreed on it. It would advantage owners who have players that move into more productive roles, being able to play Bannon and Bucannon at safety when they're not actually playing safety is quite an advantage. So if some of the owners disagree with your way of handling position designations they do have a point...especially when it comes to these safety to linebacker situations.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:39 am
by Oslo Oildrillers
FiremanEd wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 5:44 pm
OldTimer wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 3:19 pm
New to DLF. Are most of you in MFL? If so, is it common to use the "change player position" function? Several years ago I had 9 DLs on my roster and 10 LBs (65 man rosters). Five DEs got changed to LBs leaving me with 4 and 15 respectively. Fouled my whole draft for that year up. The following year we started changing player positions back if the owner wanted to do that. Thoughts?
Yes, most are on MFL. No, most won't use that function.
I'm in a league that uses that function but it was very clear from the start of the league how this would be handled, so it's not under the commissioner's discretion to decide. What this league does is to re-classify all outside pass rushers as DE, so every time MFL does a position update the commish goes in to "correct" the player positions. All other positions follow the MFL changes.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:45 am
by SteveVolk
The Mack change strikes me as outright devastating for his owners. Ouch. I pour one out for my rivals.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:39 am
by bruiser
UPDATED: http://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2017/site_news?L=38402

ARI: Andre Ellington from WR to RB
BAL: Lardarius Webb from S to CB
BUF: Lorenzo Alexander from DE to LB
CIN: Carl Lawson from DE to LB
CIN: Brandon Wilson from CB to S
DET: Alex Carter from CB to S
LAC: Melvin Ingram from LB to DE
LAC: Corey Liuget from DE to DT
LAC: Tenny Palepoi from DE to DT
PHI: Nate Gerry from S to LB
SEA: Cassius Marsh from LB to DE
SEA: David Bass from LB to DE
SEA: Malik McDowell from DE to DT
SF : Elvis Dumervil from LB to DE
SF : Solomon Thomas from DE to DT

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:46 am
by bruiser
Quick thoughts:

1. Solomon Thomas gets a nice bump in DT-required leagues. Even better in DT-weighted scoring.
2. Lorenzo Alexander investors probably paid a premium for him at DE. His OLB value will be scoring-dependent.
3. Carl Lawson investors are probably even more upset they drafted him, but likely forgot that he is a Bengals rookie.

The rest were all expected.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:08 am
by Mascott93
Bruiser wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:46 am

1. Solomon Thomas gets a nice bump in DT-required leagues. Even better in DT-weighted scoring.
What do you think Thomas's value is now in DT premium leagues? Or when should he be drafted?

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:27 am
by Oslo Oildrillers
I don't really understand why he moved Thomas and McDowell to DT. Breeze defines positions by base formation and he has talked about not wanting to move players back and forth, so if he's making a position change now it should signal some confidence in Thomas and McDowell playing DT in base.

Thomas isn't allowed to practice with the 49ers yet so I don't understand what information caused him to make a move to DT now, and I don't understand why he thinks Thomas would play 3t in base... Tea leaves, small birds and voices within the 49ers fanbase seem to expect Thomas to play strongside end, but that he would ideally be a better fit at weakside end where they seem determined to test an Arik Armstead experiment - a player who doesn't have the athletic profile to succeed at LEO and is athletically a better fit at 5t and 3t. Slimming down a big DL really worked wonders with Tank Carradine so I can see why they would want to move Armstead to LEO......... :wall: I'm sure we'll see Thomas inside on a fair amount of nickel snaps as they rotate their big three, but Breeze does not go by nickel formations. So...what caused this change to DT?

As for McDowell I can understand it in the sense that McDowell will likely only play a rotational role this season where he'll mostly play 3t, so in that sense I can see making him a DT but it would only be a temporary move as they have been pretty clear that they long term see him in a Michael Bennett role where he'll play base strongside end and move inside in sub-packages. So then again I don't really understand moving him to DT now as he will be moved back to DE when he becomes a starter at some point, if not sooner.

If I didn't know better it would look like Breeze is starting to determine positions by looking at nickel, not base, judging from these two position changes. Which would be a positive development, in my opinion, but one that would have huge effects on IDP and would cause a loooong list of position changes.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:52 am
by breeze
My advice is slow down and don't jump to conclusions.

Everyone is pushing and pushing and pushing for answers and nobody knows. My hand was forced to move the Niners into a 4-3 and tbh, nothing makes sense there. In OTAs apparently Bucker at 5, Armstead at LEO, and Thomas at 3T. The Niners have 3 guys that all profile best at 5T and honestly I don't know what they are thinking.

As for McDowell, at this time he is playing weakside 3T DT in SEA defense

Remember. We are one day into minicamp. There are so many unknowns. At the end of the day, players will be designated what they play in base by week 1. Asking for every answer in June and for it to be 100% correct is impossible and unrealistic.

IDP is fluid. There will be more changes as more info comes out. Just the way it is.

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:02 am
by Oslo Oildrillers
breeze wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:52 am
My advice is slow down and don't jump to conclusions.

Everyone is pushing and pushing and pushing for answers and nobody knows. My hand was forced to move the Niners into a 4-3 and tbh, nothing makes sense there. In OTAs apparently Bucker at 5, Armstead at LEO, and Thomas at 3T. The Niners have 3 guys that all profile best at 5T and honestly I don't know what they are thinking.

As for McDowell, at this time he is playing weakside 3T DT in SEA defense

Remember. We are one day into minicamp. There are so many unknowns. At the end of the day, players will be designated what they play in base by week 1. Asking for every answer in June and for it to be 100% correct is impossible and unrealistic.

IDP is fluid. There will be more changes as more info comes out. Just the way it is.
Thanks for jumping in to explain.

I get that things are fluid, and it's totally understandable. I just thought it was a strange move to actively move these two players to DT when things are still fluid and we're acting on so little information. Why not just leave them at DE until we know where they will line up? It's great to get real time changes quickly when things develop, but when we're all just guessing and speculating it kind of sends the wrong signal to change position designations. It's probably better to be late in moving Thomas to DT in July/August rather than moving him to DT now and risk having to move him back to DE in August. When MFL makes position changes it spurs activity and moves trade values since there is an assumption that the moves are being done with some level of certainty.

In my eyes it is a bit strong to categorically state that McDowell is playing weakside 3t. He primarily lined up at 5-tech in rookie minicamp, it was only on the last day that they played him more inside:

McDowell made a strong first impression throughout the weekend. He lined up more inside at tackle on Sunday than he had the previous two days. His explosiveness off the line of scrimmage should translate well to when he begins lining up against stronger competition.

"He’s a different looking athlete than we’ve had," Carroll said. "So his stature – he’s taller, longer than guys we’ve been able to coach. He’s really quick. He understands what we’re talking about. We played him a lot at the five-technique spot just so that we could see him there. He looks really natural in his movement and kind of his coordination. So we saw nothing but great stuff. It was a highly successful weekend and him showing us what we’re getting so it was fun to see that."


McDowell himself has said;

"I'm playing a whole different position. That's basically it," said McDowell, taken in the second round with the 35th overall pick. "I played nose guard at Michigan State, I play D-end here, so that's just moving outside and going from taking double teams and going to taking single blocks, mostly."

I haven't been able to find much info on OTAs and first day of mini-camp, perhaps you have? I read that McDowell got first team reps at 3-tech in nickel formations, but I haven't read anything about base.

He's going to play 5-tech and 3-tech and his home might very well be 3-tech most of the time, especially early in his career as I don't see them messing too much with Avril-Bennett-Clark in speed packages, but it's very early to make the call and say that McDowell is going to play DT in base. You say don't jump to conclusions, but isn't it you who is jumping to conclusions here?

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:23 pm
by breeze
I have to put them somewhere with the most current information. I get endless messages a day people complaining I'm moving to slow. It's a thankless job that's impossible to please everyone. McDowell and Thomas both lined up at 3T in minicamp. McDowell has a decent chance of playing 3T in base this year. He won't be starting at 5 this year. I can't put the entire DL at DE on each team. Just the way it is

Re: MFL Position Updates

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:20 am
by Oslo Oildrillers
breeze wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:23 pm
I have to put them somewhere with the most current information. I get endless messages a day people complaining I'm moving to slow. It's a thankless job that's impossible to please everyone. McDowell and Thomas both lined up at 3T in minicamp. McDowell has a decent chance of playing 3T in base this year. He won't be starting at 5 this year. I can't put the entire DL at DE on each team. Just the way it is
Thomas has not been able to participate in team activities since rookie minicamp due to Stanford's academic calendar and he played strongside DE in base during rookie minicamp. He obviously did some work at 3t, but in base formation he lined up at 5t. During OTAs it was Carradine who lined up at 5t in base, not Buckner or Armstead. They've also said that they will teach Thomas the LEO as well, so it is obvious that he will get moved around, but you're still going by base, right?

Solomon Thomas' talent wasn't in question when the San Francisco 49ers selected him with the third overall pick in April's draft. But with 2015 and 2016 first-round picks Arik Armstead and DeForest Buckner already on the roster, Thomas didn't have a clear fit.

The initial answer came during 49ers rookie minicamp.

According to Cam Inman of the Bay Area News Group, the Stanford product lined up as the "big end" and is expected to move inside to defensive tackle during certain sub-packages in coordinator Robert Saleh's new scheme.

"Kind of lining up in the end position and stuff so I can move down to that 3-tech and be able to rush with DeForest or Arik in there," Thomas said about his role after being drafted, per ESPN.com's Nick Wagoner (via ABC 7 Chicago). "So, you know, that's really what we talked about [with defensive line coach Jeff Zgonina], and I'm excited to figure out and learn more about the system."